Lyon Promises Exciting Footy

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rodgerfox
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Post: # 1026571Post rodgerfox »

Thinline wrote: Persoanlly I think people need to draw a distinction between agreeing and disagreeing (which is what this forum is for) and disrespectful baiting (which it is not)...
The distinction is clear....

If it's written by a particular poster, and/or dares to suggest that Lyon or the club has any flaws - it's baiting.

If it's a post by a particular poster, and is written with heavy duty rose-coloured glasses on - then it's merely agreeing/disagreeing.


It's very simple really.


By the way, was it you that wrote this stuff...

"Makes the world identify you as a bulls*** artist."

"Answer a legitimate question with a deflecting smartarse question.

Makes you feel important."

"That's what Righteous f***wit is saying."

"Seems more like a wet opinion dressed as fact to make him feel better about the likely fact he's fifty five and lives with his mum."

"I'm disappointed for perpetuating his rubbish but he's a complete muppet."


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markp
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Post: # 1026574Post markp »

So... Who's on first?


joffaboy
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Post: # 1026577Post joffaboy »

rodgerfox wrote:[
It's very simple really.

:mrgreen: :mrgreen:


Lance or James??

There comes a point in every man's life when he has to say, "Enough is enough." For me, that time is now. I have been dealing with claims that I cheated and had an unfair advantage in <redacted>. Over the past three years, I have been subjected to a <redacted>investigation followed by <redacted> witch hunt. The toll this has taken on my family, and my work for <redacted>and on me leads me to where I am today – finished with this nonsense. (Oops just got a spontaneous errection <unredacted>)
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Post: # 1026578Post joffaboy »

markp wrote:So... Who's on first?
An ex-assistant, or was it a board member told me that Lyon wanted to put What on first because he is arrogant and stubborn but was overruled.


Lance or James??

There comes a point in every man's life when he has to say, "Enough is enough." For me, that time is now. I have been dealing with claims that I cheated and had an unfair advantage in <redacted>. Over the past three years, I have been subjected to a <redacted>investigation followed by <redacted> witch hunt. The toll this has taken on my family, and my work for <redacted>and on me leads me to where I am today – finished with this nonsense. (Oops just got a spontaneous errection <unredacted>)
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markp
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Post: # 1026580Post markp »

joffaboy wrote:
markp wrote:So... Who's on first?
An ex-assistant, or was it a board member told me that Lyon wanted to put What on first because he is arrogant and stubborn but was overruled.
Who is arrogant?... Lyon, or What?


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Post: # 1026581Post plugger66 »

rodgerfox wrote:
plugger66 wrote:How do you know his assistants wanted Gibert forward and he didnt. It could be the other way around. You just made that bit up.
I'm basing that part on what I was told by an ex-assistant.
Funny that you didnt mention you also knew an ex assistant coach as well as a board member. I suggest you may being telling a few porkies there or you would also mentioned it or did it slip your mind?


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markp
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Post: # 1026582Post markp »

plugger66 wrote:
rodgerfox wrote:
plugger66 wrote:How do you know his assistants wanted Gibert forward and he didnt. It could be the other way around. You just made that bit up.
I'm basing that part on what I was told by an ex-assistant.
Funny that you didnt mention you also knew an ex assistant coach as well as a board member. I suggest you may being telling a few porkies there or you would also mentioned it or did it slip your mind?
The ex-assitant(s?) and he share a mutual friend.

Do try to keep up, and stop your bullying.


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Post: # 1026583Post saintsRrising »

So just to be clear..

Is this the same Lyon who in pre-season 2010 stated that Gilbert may play forward on occasion?

And the ex-assistant. Is this the assistant that RF sacked?


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rodgerfox
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Post: # 1026592Post rodgerfox »

plugger66 wrote:
rodgerfox wrote:
plugger66 wrote:How do you know his assistants wanted Gibert forward and he didnt. It could be the other way around. You just made that bit up.
I'm basing that part on what I was told by an ex-assistant.
Funny that you didnt mention you also knew an ex assistant coach as well as a board member. I suggest you may being telling a few porkies there or you would also mentioned it or did it slip your mind?
I'd suggest you've been drinking again.

When you sober up, re-read my posts and it'll make sense.


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Post: # 1026594Post joffaboy »

markp wrote:
plugger66 wrote:
rodgerfox wrote:
plugger66 wrote:How do you know his assistants wanted Gibert forward and he didnt. It could be the other way around. You just made that bit up.
I'm basing that part on what I was told by an ex-assistant.
Funny that you didnt mention you also knew an ex assistant coach as well as a board member. I suggest you may being telling a few porkies there or you would also mentioned it or did it slip your mind?
The ex-assitant(s?) and he share a mutual friend.

Do try to keep up, and stop your bullying.
Oh my stars - you are the bully, just because you love Ross.


Lance or James??

There comes a point in every man's life when he has to say, "Enough is enough." For me, that time is now. I have been dealing with claims that I cheated and had an unfair advantage in <redacted>. Over the past three years, I have been subjected to a <redacted>investigation followed by <redacted> witch hunt. The toll this has taken on my family, and my work for <redacted>and on me leads me to where I am today – finished with this nonsense. (Oops just got a spontaneous errection <unredacted>)
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Post: # 1026595Post plugger66 »

rodgerfox wrote:
Thinline wrote: Fact is people who have inside knowledge have the good sense to be discreet. Those who aren't are making it up 9.9/10.
Not sure where this supposed 'inside knowledge' thing comes from?


Fact is I worked with a board member, and he had very loose lips. Loved to brag, and loved to show how important he was by sharing information with people.

I haven't worked with him for a while now, and haven't spoken to him for some time.

Frankly, he was a waanker who even bragged about his importance by sharing players' personal lives with people.


On the topic of roles and responsibilities within the team, I'm amazed by what I'm reading here. Reading from people who follow footy closely.
Makes me wonder what the hell people do when they attend the footy each week - and makes me seriously wonder what you blokes did when you were playing!

A lot of footy clubs, nearly all, have roles within the team. Every player has a specific role.
These roles must be strictly adhered to. Some players have roles with autonomy, others have no autonomy whatsoever.
The decision to 'mark or spoil' at a particular contest is not their decision to make - it's already been made for them.
The decision to kick long or stop and kick backwards or sideways isn't their decision. It's already been made for them.

The Saints have taken the 'roles' thing to this extent. According to an ex-assistant the other week over a beer or two, he told me that this is a sticking point for the football department.
Lyon has taken it further than most other coaches - and won't budge. It was a good thing early on, but became an issue as other clubs worked out what was happening, and started to defend far too easily against us.

Not sure if I'd call that 'inside information'?? But I guess if you're a loser who sits on the couch all day then dons the scarf and beanie and screams at teenagers running around a park on a Saturday arvo, I suppose it may be considered 'inside information'.

To me, it's as plain as the nose on your face what is happening. To have it spoken about by someone who was in charge of enforcing it, wasn't a surprise. Hardly ground breaking news I'd have thought.


I don't think the game plan needs to be changed, I think it needs to have some flexibility built into it.
As I said, it needed it last year and it cost us. We couldn't score all year due to our predictability.
Our key players were targetted, and the ball was in the hands of poorly skilled recruits and guys who aren't allowed to attack far too many times throughout the year - and the finals.

The stucture is a problem too. The lack of flexibility in the structure is an issue too.
Kosi in the role of 'tall forward' failed horribly. Lyon refused to concede that this structure wasn't working.
Part of the issue was that our run and attack from defence was being stifled as our opponents knew who to stop, and who to concede the ball to. So the nut just wasn't getting up forward fast enough.


So, in the context of this thread and topic, in order to be better at attacking we need to build some autonomy into the roles of some players, and some flexibility into the structure. Gilber going forward in the GF would have made Lyon wet his pants and go into an Excessive Compulsive freakout! But it worked. He should have listened to his assistants and started the following week the same way, but he refused to veer away from 'his' structure.

He needs to acknowledge that he's been worked out. He needs to leveridge off the good work that he's done, and allow some flexibility.
Well I have read this again and see no mention of an ex assistant coach. Why wouldnt you mention him on here when mentioning inside knowledge. Seems very strange and no I havent been drinking today as yet. Will have a couple soon though.


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Post: # 1026598Post Saints43 »

saintsRrising wrote:Is this the assistant that RF sacked?
I assume you mean RL. Which assistant did he sack?


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rodgerfox
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Post: # 1026609Post rodgerfox »

plugger66 wrote: Well I have read this again and see no mention of an ex assistant coach. Why wouldnt you mention him on here when mentioning inside knowledge. Seems very strange and no I havent been drinking today as yet. Will have a couple soon though.
??

I have mentioned it in this thread.


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Post: # 1026626Post starsign »

markp wrote:
joffaboy wrote:
markp wrote:So... Who's on first?
An ex-assistant, or was it a board member told me that Lyon wanted to put What on first because he is arrogant and stubborn but was overruled.
Who is arrogant?... Lyon, or What?
But Whats on Third!!


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Post: # 1026643Post SaintPav »

rodgerfox wrote:
SainterK wrote:
rodgerfox wrote:
SainterK wrote: I'll take this one TL

Rule that requires designated kickers

RF doesn't like it

However he doesn't trust certain players in front of goal

Not that that means we should have designated kickers

Clear? :wink:
I'll assume that's merely an attempt at humour?

Because it's incredibly far from anything that's been discussed in this thread.
Don't usually include a :wink: when I'm being entirely serious.
Is a ":wink:" an icon for witless smarm?
Is this geeza a troll?


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Post: # 1026644Post Dr Spaceman »

Image


Thinline
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Post: # 1026658Post Thinline »

rodgerfox wrote:
Thinline wrote: Persoanlly I think people need to draw a distinction between agreeing and disagreeing (which is what this forum is for) and disrespectful baiting (which it is not)...
The distinction is clear....

If it's written by a particular poster, and/or dares to suggest that Lyon or the club has any flaws - it's baiting.

If it's a post by a particular poster, and is written with heavy duty rose-coloured glasses on - then it's merely agreeing/disagreeing.


It's very simple really.


By the way, was it you that wrote this stuff...

"Makes the world identify you as a bulls*** artist."

"Answer a legitimate question with a deflecting smartarse question.

Makes you feel important."

"That's what Righteous f***wit is saying."

"Seems more like a wet opinion dressed as fact to make him feel better about the likely fact he's fifty five and lives with his mum."

"I'm disappointed for perpetuating his rubbish but he's a complete muppet."
Meant every word, mate. And you were the most worthy recipient.

You're a fraud.


"The inches we need are everywhere around us. They're in every break in the game. Every minute, every second. On this team we fight for that inch. On this team we tear ourselves and everyone around us to pieces for that inch. We claw with our fingernails for that inch. Because we know when we add up all those inches that's gonna make the f***in' difference between winning and losing! Between living and dying!'
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Post: # 1026666Post saintsRrising »

Saints43 wrote:
saintsRrising wrote:Is this the assistant that RF sacked?
I assume you mean RL. Which assistant did he sack?
No..I meant RF... :wink:

RF did not actually say coach....


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Post: # 1026669Post saintsRrising »

One should remember that what Lyon's idea of exiting footy is....may not be everyone elses.

While I am confident that a big part of it will be looking to improve our goal scoring ability, I am even more confident that Lyon will still have our gameplan built on discipline and structures including looking to control and restrict the opposition, including by pressing.


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Post: # 1026678Post Teflon »

saintsRrising wrote:One should remember that what Lyon's idea of exiting footy is....may not be everyone elses.

While I am confident that a big part of it will be looking to improve our goal scoring ability, I am even more confident that Lyon will still have our gameplan built on discipline and structures including looking to control and restrict the opposition, including by pressing.
This is what I said a while back. Lyon is a master at arguing his case with facts.I can see us kicmking mire goals this year, playing the same style essentially, being labelled as "defensive" before Ross reminds all that we are "scoring more....2.3123 goals a game"....

I truly could care less bout the whole "we need to free up roles" rubbish -no one cared in 09 when we won. So just win.


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Post: # 1026693Post Con Gorozidis »

im not going to read all the personal slanging stuff. but i for one appreciate rf's posts and hes one of my favourite posters. him and plugger need to get a room and release the sexual tension but on the whole he makes sense. the saints have won a hell a lot of games so sometimes rf sounds a bit harsh. but i try and watch closely and try to go most weeks in the last few years and despite some incredible performances and a knack of winning - we have played some horrible footy. i think that 3rd quarter against the dogs, quarters 1,2 and 3 v the cats in the finals, quarter 3 in gf 1 and the dockers game were our best quarters all year. but we played dozens of horrible quarters. i have no inside info and have not spoken to a single person about this - but i came to my own conclusions from watching lots of saints footy that the ideology of saints footy had gone too far. the philosophy seemed to take over the individual to the extreme which became sub-optimal. we ended up having 5 or 6 blokes who did not touch the ball week in week out. people kept saying its ok they are playing a role. but im yet to see any of the other 15 clubs having designated passengers. its just fantasy stuff. and i dare say the penny has dropped. why has lyon deliberately mentioned exciting footy? why was eddy cut?


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Post: # 1026697Post plugger66 »

rodgerfox wrote:
plugger66 wrote: Well I have read this again and see no mention of an ex assistant coach. Why wouldnt you mention him on here when mentioning inside knowledge. Seems very strange and no I havent been drinking today as yet. Will have a couple soon though.
??

I have mentioned it in this thread.
Sorry RF just read the thread again and couldnt find any mention of an ex assistant. Maybe I missed it which it could easily be but also maybe you just made it all up. I did find the ex board member though so maybe he told you but that would seem very strange as well as you mentioned you hadnt spoken to him for a while.


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Post: # 1026711Post samoht »

Our strength is the backline - so I've got no problem with continuing playing our defensive style.

We don't have specialist medium sized goal kicking forwards to switch to an attacking style ... I don't count the shifts forward of our dependable defenders as anything other than robbing reliable Peter to pay an iffy Paul.

In fact it could be argued that our style wasn't defensive enough and our so called forwards didn't defend enough against the likes of Shaw, Thomas and O'Brien - who got (or were allowed to get) stats a AAA midfield would be proud of.
The rebounding trio killed us... while Montagna only got 13 possessions in GF2 as a midfielder... they each got twice as many as backmen.

The Gilbert move forward meant we leaked quite a few more goals against Collingwood - how well did it really work I wonder ?


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Post: # 1026714Post rodgerfox »

samoht wrote:Our strength is the backline - so I've got no problem with continuing playing our defensive style.

We don't have specialist medium sized goal kicking forwards to switch to an attacking style ... I don't count the shifts forward of our dependable defenders as anything other than robbing reliable Peter to pay an iffy Paul.
The backline isn't a strength.

If left to fend for themselves as purely a backline, they get beaten pretty confortably. If individual defenders get isolated, then are very suspect.

It's how we defend as a team that is the strength.


When you talk about robbing Peter to pay Paul - that's where the debate lies. Is the way we defend as a team, robbing us of the chance to attack as effectively as we need to?

I firmly believe it does.


The question is though, what the hell do you do about it when you've recruited average footballers for the past 4 years? Average footballers who are capable of playing a role within a strong defensive unit - but not capable of beating their man one-on-one consistently.

If we now attempt to go more man on man in defence in order to free up mids and forwards to focus more on attack, then I think we'd simply be outclassed.


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Post: # 1026722Post samoht »

rodgerfox wrote:
samoht wrote:
The backline isn't a strength.

If left to fend for themselves as purely a backline, they get beaten pretty confortably. If individual defenders get isolated, then are very suspect.

It's how we defend as a team that is the strength.


When you talk about robbing Peter to pay Paul - that's where the debate lies. Is the way we defend as a team, robbing us of the chance to attack as effectively as we need to?

I firmly believe it does.


The question is though, what the hell do you do about it when you've recruited average footballers for the past 4 years? Average footballers who are capable of playing a role within a strong defensive unit - but not capable of beating their man one-on-one consistently.

If we now attempt to go more man on man in defence in order to free up mids and forwards to focus more on attack, then I think we'd simply be outclassed.
Individually there will always be a mismatch arising.
but..
Our back 6 defenders - working as a unit - are also the most attacking component of our team - they combine well together and provide run and carry.
You don't meddle with your strength ...by taking players out of our reliable defensive unit and plonking them forward .. we end up weakening our strength.

Why didn't we recruit better .. and target medium forwards over the last 10 years + we haven't had one since Winmar ?

Milne, Schneider and McQualter are 3 smalls - you should only take one small into a ferocious final... we need to develop/ find a medium forward yesterday and drop 2 smalls.
Our half forwards need to better restrict/defend against opposition half back lines... the Shaws, Harbrows, Thomases, O'Briens of this world... who each average 25 possession plus against us - Harbrow had two 40 possessiion games in a row against us.
That rot needs to stop.

We need to be more defensive if anything up forward.


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