Ross Lyon after today

[plugger66]

Agreed with previous comment.

You don't win flags with players like MCqualter and Eddy (AND RAPH CLARKE) in a grand final teams.

Ro$$'s strange obsession with his role players -- McQualter, Eddy, Raph Clarke and even Blake and Dawson -- stood in sharp contrast to his seeming disdain for some of the heart-and-soul players -- Ball, Hudghton, Maguire -- and his disinclination to give game-time to some of the more promising young players: Armo, Geary, even Jack Steven.

A great tactical coach with a fair bit of mongrel in him (like many successful coaches), but his mental issues and insecurities probably prevented us from going the full distance.

Its amazing what we forget over time. max was finished for sure. Goose was also struggling at sandy. Ball had a very poor year. Look at the stats. Just a pretty simple question. If those 5 players you mentioned werent good enough how did we win 19 in a row? GT had a much better list and couldnt do it. Geary played a lot of footy by the way and wasnt Eddy young or that doesnt count. Armo played 12 games in his second year and jack was stuffed with OP. Mental issues. What a lot of crap.

You dont win flags with Eddy and Mini in the side. But you win 2 with Mario Bortalotto.

[Con Gorozidis]

Eddy and McQualter werent AFL standard.

Ross had a few years to build our squad to make sure we had 25 AFL std players but he failed to do that.

He just hoped our top 16 guns could get us over the line. They couldnt.

[plugger66]

Eddy and McQualter werent AFL standard.

Ross had a few years to build our squad to make sure we had 25 AFL std players but he failed to do that.

He just hoped our top 16 guns could get us over the line. They couldnt.

You do understand a SC? As it was he got Schneider, Dempster, Ray, MG and King. Not sure he could do much more than that but in hindsight we know he stuffed up.

[skeptic]

Agreed with previous comment.

You don't win flags with players like MCqualter and Eddy (AND RAPH CLARKE) in a grand final teams.

Ro$$'s strange obsession with his role players -- McQualter, Eddy, Raph Clarke and even Blake and Dawson -- stood in sharp contrast to his seeming disdain for some of the heart-and-soul players -- Ball, Hudghton, Maguire -- and his disinclination to give game-time to some of the more promising young players: Armo, Geary, even Jack Steven.

A great tactical coach with a fair bit of mongrel in him (like many successful coaches), but his mental issues and insecurities probably prevented us from going the full distance.

Its amazing what we forget over time. max was finished for sure. Goose was also struggling at sandy. Ball had a very poor year. Look at the stats. Just a pretty simple question. If those 5 players you mentioned werent good enough how did we win 19 in a row? GT had a much better list and couldnt do it. Geary played a lot of footy by the way and wasnt Eddy young or that doesnt count. Armo played 12 games in his second year and jack was stuffed with OP. Mental issues. What a lot of crap.

You dont win flags with Eddy and Mini in the side. But you win 2 with Mario Bortalotto.

There's some re-writing going on here all round...
McQualter had a very good 2009 and deserved his spot. No issues there. How he got games late 2010 to me at least, will go down as the most bizarre, irrational mystery and the first concrete sign that something was erratic about RL.

Eddy fair enough

Blake and Dawson were solid, appropriate picks that justified their selection both years both pre and post GFs

I've always been of the opinion that Raph Clarke was better than he was ever credited but he was average in the 09 GF... though personally I think he was a big loss in 2010 but that's just me

Luke Ball didn't have a really poor year... that's just twisting the facts. He didn't have a great year but was playing decent enough football to be in the team in Sept and had an excellent first half to the 09 GF

Whilst I don't believe Hudghton was finished, he was a risky proposition and I don't begrudge the coach for going with Dawson instead. I just didn't have confidence in Max to see the game out though he was clearly a better player

Goose was just unlucky. I don't think he was struggling so much but he played in positions we had covered and then when he earnt his chance... he got injured. Disappointing but unlucky

I do enjoy the argument with Armo and Jack... Jack in particular was underutilised but it's made out as though he was injured the whole season to again suit the argument. Armo should have played more and should have got games ahead of Mini, Gram, Eddy, Dempster at the time to name a few

[plugger66]

Agreed with previous comment.

You don't win flags with players like MCqualter and Eddy (AND RAPH CLARKE) in a grand final teams.

Ro$$'s strange obsession with his role players -- McQualter, Eddy, Raph Clarke and even Blake and Dawson -- stood in sharp contrast to his seeming disdain for some of the heart-and-soul players -- Ball, Hudghton, Maguire -- and his disinclination to give game-time to some of the more promising young players: Armo, Geary, even Jack Steven.

A great tactical coach with a fair bit of mongrel in him (like many successful coaches), but his mental issues and insecurities probably prevented us from going the full distance.

Its amazing what we forget over time. max was finished for sure. Goose was also struggling at sandy. Ball had a very poor year. Look at the stats. Just a pretty simple question. If those 5 players you mentioned werent good enough how did we win 19 in a row? GT had a much better list and couldnt do it. Geary played a lot of footy by the way and wasnt Eddy young or that doesnt count. Armo played 12 games in his second year and jack was stuffed with OP. Mental issues. What a lot of crap.

You dont win flags with Eddy and Mini in the side. But you win 2 with Mario Bortalotto.

There's some re-writing going on here all round...
McQualter had a very good 2009 and deserved his spot. No issues there. How he got games late 2010 to me at least, will go down as the most bizarre, irrational mystery and the first concrete sign that something was erratic about RL.

Eddy fair enough

Blake and Dawson were solid, appropriate picks that justified their selection both years both pre and post GFs

I've always been of the opinion that Raph Clarke was better than he was ever credited but he was average in the 09 GF... though personally I think he was a big loss in 2010 but that's just me

Luke Ball didn't have a really poor year... that's just twisting the facts. He didn't have a great year but was playing decent enough football to be in the team in Sept and had an excellent first half to the 09 GF

Whilst I don't believe Hudghton was finished, he was a risky proposition and I don't begrudge the coach for going with Dawson instead. I just didn't have confidence in Max to see the game out though he was clearly a better player

Goose was just unlucky. I don't think he was struggling so much but he played in positions we had covered and then when he earnt his chance... he got injured. Disappointing but unlucky

I do enjoy the argument with Armo and Jack... Jack in particular was underutilised but it's made out as though he was injured the whole season to again suit the argument. Armo should have played more and should have got games ahead of Mini, Gram, Eddy, Dempster at the time to name a few

Ball had a poor year. he was dropped twice, once to get some fitness and the second time because he was struggling. Doesnt mean he didnt deserve to be in the 22. Jack was not fit enough to play on the ones. Thats fact straight to me so either he lied or told you a different story. Had an operation the second day after the GF. Armo was given chances to play the previous year but had to work on certain aspects of his game. Do you actually think RL wanted to play players who couldnt win the GF? He relied more than any other coach on players playing a role because we didnt have the depth of the 2 other sides we played in the GF because of the silly SC and probably poor list management.

[Waltzing St Kilda]

Agreed with previous comment.

You don't win flags with players like MCqualter and Eddy (AND RAPH CLARKE) in a grand final teams.

Ro$$'s strange obsession with his role players -- McQualter, Eddy, Raph Clarke and even Blake and Dawson -- stood in sharp contrast to his seeming disdain for some of the heart-and-soul players -- Ball, Hudghton, Maguire -- and his disinclination to give game-time to some of the more promising young players: Armo, Geary, even Jack Steven.

A great tactical coach with a fair bit of mongrel in him (like many successful coaches), but his mental issues and insecurities probably prevented us from going the full distance.

Its amazing what we forget over time. max was finished for sure. Goose was also struggling at sandy. Ball had a very poor year. Look at the stats. Just a pretty simple question. If those 5 players you mentioned werent good enough how did we win 19 in a row? GT had a much better list and couldnt do it. Geary played a lot of footy by the way and wasnt Eddy young or that doesnt count. Armo played 12 games in his second year and jack was stuffed with OP. Mental issues. What a lot of crap.

You dont win flags with Eddy and Mini in the side. But you win 2 with Mario Bortalotto.

It's not hindsight. Most of us were stunned at the time that Eddy was getting games in finals. McQualter, too, though his 2009 year was good. Ball may have had a bad year in 2009 but that could've due to opportunities and his relationship with the coach -- he went on to eke out some good years in a successful team. Maguire was coming back from injury but he too has since had success at another club, and would have been preferable to Raph Clarke in the 2009 GF. Gwilt would have been too. Hudghton also (just ask players from other clubs who couldn't believe he'd been dropped). And RoSS's poor handling of Ball and Hudghton went on to cost us dearly in 2010.

Yes we won 19 in a row but we didn't win the flag ... no other team has done such a thing, so you just underline my point.

[plugger66]

Agreed with previous comment.

You don't win flags with players like MCqualter and Eddy (AND RAPH CLARKE) in a grand final teams.

Ro$$'s strange obsession with his role players -- McQualter, Eddy, Raph Clarke and even Blake and Dawson -- stood in sharp contrast to his seeming disdain for some of the heart-and-soul players -- Ball, Hudghton, Maguire -- and his disinclination to give game-time to some of the more promising young players: Armo, Geary, even Jack Steven.

A great tactical coach with a fair bit of mongrel in him (like many successful coaches), but his mental issues and insecurities probably prevented us from going the full distance.

Its amazing what we forget over time. max was finished for sure. Goose was also struggling at sandy. Ball had a very poor year. Look at the stats. Just a pretty simple question. If those 5 players you mentioned werent good enough how did we win 19 in a row? GT had a much better list and couldnt do it. Geary played a lot of footy by the way and wasnt Eddy young or that doesnt count. Armo played 12 games in his second year and jack was stuffed with OP. Mental issues. What a lot of crap.

You dont win flags with Eddy and Mini in the side. But you win 2 with Mario Bortalotto.

It's not hindsight. Most of us were stunned at the time that Eddy was getting games in finals. McQualter, too, though his 2009 year was good. Ball may have had a bad year in 2009 but that could've due to opportunities and his relationship with the coach -- he went on to eke out some good years in a successful team. Maguire was coming back from injury but he too has since had success at another club, and would have been preferable to Raph Clarke in the 2009 GF. Gwilt would have been too. Hudghton also (just ask players from other clubs who couldn't believe he'd been dropped). And RoSS's poor handling of Ball and Hudghton went on to cost us dearly in 2010.

Yes we won 19 in a row but we didn't win the flag ... no other team has done such a thing, so you just underline my point.

Yep we won 19 in a row with all those issues. It makes sense. max was finished and saying he wasnt proves your memory is failing you. Ball was very good at the pies but they played different footy to us and was also fitter. What Goose has done at brisbane has liitle to do with what he did in the year he couldnt get a game with us. Another issue of forgetting his form back then.

Im really surprsied to scored in the GF with all these faults. You must really think GT was a shocking coach because had a much better side and didnt even make the GF.

[Con Gorozidis]

Definitely not hindsight.
Many on here were very vocal throughout 09 and 10 that we couldn't win a flag with those two.
They were right. RL should have made more effort to bolster our squad in 07-10.

if u look at the premiership sides they have no weak links.

[sunsaint]

Its amazing what we forget over time. max was finished for sure. .

nope - whats amazing is you think no one will challenge you with facts
Max had an injury final season but he came back late and played 7 games for 6 wins
He got "injured" again against the rnd 20 loss to bombers - and didnt get reselected for finals
His last game STILL saw him return better stats than Zac (not that it was a choice between those two - just using an example)

But i guess you are right in historical truth - Max was finished at the saints - RL finished him

[suss]

Agreed with previous comment.

You don't win flags with players like MCqualter and Eddy (AND RAPH CLARKE) in a grand final teams.

Ro$$'s strange obsession with his role players -- McQualter, Eddy, Raph Clarke and even Blake and Dawson -- stood in sharp contrast to his seeming disdain for some of the heart-and-soul players -- Ball, Hudghton, Maguire -- and his disinclination to give game-time to some of the more promising young players: Armo, Geary, even Jack Steven.

A great tactical coach with a fair bit of mongrel in him (like many successful coaches), but his mental issues and insecurities probably prevented us from going the full distance.

Its amazing what we forget over time. max was finished for sure. Goose was also struggling at sandy. Ball had a very poor year. Look at the stats. Just a pretty simple question. If those 5 players you mentioned werent good enough how did we win 19 in a row? GT had a much better list and couldnt do it. Geary played a lot of footy by the way and wasnt Eddy young or that doesnt count. Armo played 12 games in his second year and jack was stuffed with OP. Mental issues. What a lot of crap.

You dont win flags with Eddy and Mini in the side. But you win 2 with Mario Bortalotto.

It's not hindsight. Most of us were stunned at the time that Eddy was getting games in finals. McQualter, too, though his 2009 year was good. Ball may have had a bad year in 2009 but that could've due to opportunities and his relationship with the coach -- he went on to eke out some good years in a successful team. Maguire was coming back from injury but he too has since had success at another club, and would have been preferable to Raph Clarke in the 2009 GF. Gwilt would have been too. Hudghton also (just ask players from other clubs who couldn't believe he'd been dropped). And RoSS's poor handling of Ball and Hudghton went on to cost us dearly in 2010.

Yes we won 19 in a row but we didn't win the flag ... no other team has done such a thing, so you just underline my point.

Yep we won 19 in a row with all those issues. It makes sense. max was finished and saying he wasnt proves your memory is failing you. Ball was very good at the pies but they played different footy to us and was also fitter. What Goose has done at brisbane has liitle to do with what he did in the year he couldnt get a game with us. Another issue of forgetting his form back then.

Im really surprsied to scored in the GF with all these faults. You must really think GT was a shocking coach because had a much better side and didnt even make the GF.

"... and saying he wasnt proves your memory is failing you".

Maybe you want to re-read this comment and consider why most people on here find you so irritating at some time or another.

The guy has an opinion that differs from yours. Maybe you should respect it and move on.

[Waltzing St Kilda]

Agreed with previous comment.

You don't win flags with players like MCqualter and Eddy (AND RAPH CLARKE) in a grand final teams.

Ro$$'s strange obsession with his role players -- McQualter, Eddy, Raph Clarke and even Blake and Dawson -- stood in sharp contrast to his seeming disdain for some of the heart-and-soul players -- Ball, Hudghton, Maguire -- and his disinclination to give game-time to some of the more promising young players: Armo, Geary, even Jack Steven.

A great tactical coach with a fair bit of mongrel in him (like many successful coaches), but his mental issues and insecurities probably prevented us from going the full distance.

Its amazing what we forget over time. max was finished for sure. Goose was also struggling at sandy. Ball had a very poor year. Look at the stats. Just a pretty simple question. If those 5 players you mentioned werent good enough how did we win 19 in a row? GT had a much better list and couldnt do it. Geary played a lot of footy by the way and wasnt Eddy young or that doesnt count. Armo played 12 games in his second year and jack was stuffed with OP. Mental issues. What a lot of crap.

You dont win flags with Eddy and Mini in the side. But you win 2 with Mario Bortalotto.

It's not hindsight. Most of us were stunned at the time that Eddy was getting games in finals. McQualter, too, though his 2009 year was good. Ball may have had a bad year in 2009 but that could've due to opportunities and his relationship with the coach -- he went on to eke out some good years in a successful team. Maguire was coming back from injury but he too has since had success at another club, and would have been preferable to Raph Clarke in the 2009 GF. Gwilt would have been too. Hudghton also (just ask players from other clubs who couldn't believe he'd been dropped). And RoSS's poor handling of Ball and Hudghton went on to cost us dearly in 2010.

Yes we won 19 in a row but we didn't win the flag ... no other team has done such a thing, so you just underline my point.

Yep we won 19 in a row with all those issues. It makes sense. max was finished and saying he wasnt proves your memory is failing you. Ball was very good at the pies but they played different footy to us and was also fitter. What Goose has done at brisbane has liitle to do with what he did in the year he couldnt get a game with us. Another issue of forgetting his form back then.

Im really surprsied to scored in the GF with all these faults. You must really think GT was a shocking coach because had a much better side and didnt even make the GF.

It's not whether Hudghton, Maguire and Armo etc were in ripping form, it's whether they were better options that Eddy, McQualter and Clarke etc. You belittle the subsequent careers of Ball and Maguire and say Hudghton was finished but what happened to the others? Eddy was delisted and no one went near him. Ditto Raph Clarke. McQualter got picked up by Brisbane and had a disastrous year. They shouldn't have been playing in the first place, even in a team whose bottom six was terrible. And a last hurrah from Hudghton in the 2009 GF would have been better than Raph's worst-afield performance (that's not a personal opinion -- that's the way it was voted, and many of us feared it would be so).

As for GT, no arguments from me or anyone else than Ro$$ is the better tactical coach. But we'll never know how far we could've gone with GT because GT didn't have Dave Misson and didn't have a good relationship with the president or the AFL.

[plugger66]

Agreed with previous comment.

You don't win flags with players like MCqualter and Eddy (AND RAPH CLARKE) in a grand final teams.

Ro$$'s strange obsession with his role players -- McQualter, Eddy, Raph Clarke and even Blake and Dawson -- stood in sharp contrast to his seeming disdain for some of the heart-and-soul players -- Ball, Hudghton, Maguire -- and his disinclination to give game-time to some of the more promising young players: Armo, Geary, even Jack Steven.

A great tactical coach with a fair bit of mongrel in him (like many successful coaches), but his mental issues and insecurities probably prevented us from going the full distance.

Its amazing what we forget over time. max was finished for sure. Goose was also struggling at sandy. Ball had a very poor year. Look at the stats. Just a pretty simple question. If those 5 players you mentioned werent good enough how did we win 19 in a row? GT had a much better list and couldnt do it. Geary played a lot of footy by the way and wasnt Eddy young or that doesnt count. Armo played 12 games in his second year and jack was stuffed with OP. Mental issues. What a lot of crap.

You dont win flags with Eddy and Mini in the side. But you win 2 with Mario Bortalotto.

It's not hindsight. Most of us were stunned at the time that Eddy was getting games in finals. McQualter, too, though his 2009 year was good. Ball may have had a bad year in 2009 but that could've due to opportunities and his relationship with the coach -- he went on to eke out some good years in a successful team. Maguire was coming back from injury but he too has since had success at another club, and would have been preferable to Raph Clarke in the 2009 GF. Gwilt would have been too. Hudghton also (just ask players from other clubs who couldn't believe he'd been dropped). And RoSS's poor handling of Ball and Hudghton went on to cost us dearly in 2010.

Yes we won 19 in a row but we didn't win the flag ... no other team has done such a thing, so you just underline my point.

Yep we won 19 in a row with all those issues. It makes sense. max was finished and saying he wasnt proves your memory is failing you. Ball was very good at the pies but they played different footy to us and was also fitter. What Goose has done at brisbane has liitle to do with what he did in the year he couldnt get a game with us. Another issue of forgetting his form back then.

Im really surprsied to scored in the GF with all these faults. You must really think GT was a shocking coach because had a much better side and didnt even make the GF.

It's not whether Hudghton, Maguire and Armo etc were in ripping form, it's whether they were better options that Eddy, McQualter and Clarke etc. You belittle the subsequent careers of Ball and Maguire and say Hudghton was finished but what happened to the others? Eddy was delisted and no one went near him. Ditto Raph Clarke. McQualter got picked up by Brisbane and had a disastrous year. They shouldn't have been playing in the first place, even in a team whose bottom six was terrible. And a last hurrah from Hudghton in the 2009 GF would have been better than Raph's worst-afield performance (that's not a personal opinion -- that's the way it was voted, and many of us feared it would be so).

As for GT, no arguments from me or anyone else than Ro$$ is the better tactical coach. But we'll never know how far we could've gone with GT because GT didn't have Dave Misson and didn't have a good relationship with the president of the AFL.

I dont belittle the others at all. That has never been my way. I just remember their form back than. I dont care what they did afterwards. How can you been taken seriously when you want max to play ahead of Raph. One was FB amd that was it and Zac had tyhat gig. Raph wasnt going to be replaced by Max ever. No GT didnt have misson but he had Powell, Penny, hamill, Peckett, G Train, and i could keep going on plus the younger stars. Dont get the GT think and the president of the AFL at all. people need to realise under RL game plan he needed players to play a role. Im pretty sure he would have picked others if he thought they could do it unless you actually think he didnt want to win a flag.

[Waltzing St Kilda]

Agreed with previous comment.

You don't win flags with players like MCqualter and Eddy (AND RAPH CLARKE) in a grand final teams.

Ro$$'s strange obsession with his role players -- McQualter, Eddy, Raph Clarke and even Blake and Dawson -- stood in sharp contrast to his seeming disdain for some of the heart-and-soul players -- Ball, Hudghton, Maguire -- and his disinclination to give game-time to some of the more promising young players: Armo, Geary, even Jack Steven.

A great tactical coach with a fair bit of mongrel in him (like many successful coaches), but his mental issues and insecurities probably prevented us from going the full distance.

Its amazing what we forget over time. max was finished for sure. Goose was also struggling at sandy. Ball had a very poor year. Look at the stats. Just a pretty simple question. If those 5 players you mentioned werent good enough how did we win 19 in a row? GT had a much better list and couldnt do it. Geary played a lot of footy by the way and wasnt Eddy young or that doesnt count. Armo played 12 games in his second year and jack was stuffed with OP. Mental issues. What a lot of crap.

You dont win flags with Eddy and Mini in the side. But you win 2 with Mario Bortalotto.

It's not hindsight. Most of us were stunned at the time that Eddy was getting games in finals. McQualter, too, though his 2009 year was good. Ball may have had a bad year in 2009 but that could've due to opportunities and his relationship with the coach -- he went on to eke out some good years in a successful team. Maguire was coming back from injury but he too has since had success at another club, and would have been preferable to Raph Clarke in the 2009 GF. Gwilt would have been too. Hudghton also (just ask players from other clubs who couldn't believe he'd been dropped). And RoSS's poor handling of Ball and Hudghton went on to cost us dearly in 2010.

Yes we won 19 in a row but we didn't win the flag ... no other team has done such a thing, so you just underline my point.

Yep we won 19 in a row with all those issues. It makes sense. max was finished and saying he wasnt proves your memory is failing you. Ball was very good at the pies but they played different footy to us and was also fitter. What Goose has done at brisbane has liitle to do with what he did in the year he couldnt get a game with us. Another issue of forgetting his form back then.

Im really surprsied to scored in the GF with all these faults. You must really think GT was a shocking coach because had a much better side and didnt even make the GF.

It's not whether Hudghton, Maguire and Armo etc were in ripping form, it's whether they were better options that Eddy, McQualter and Clarke etc. You belittle the subsequent careers of Ball and Maguire and say Hudghton was finished but what happened to the others? Eddy was delisted and no one went near him. Ditto Raph Clarke. McQualter got picked up by Brisbane and had a disastrous year. They shouldn't have been playing in the first place, even in a team whose bottom six was terrible. And a last hurrah from Hudghton in the 2009 GF would have been better than Raph's worst-afield performance (that's not a personal opinion -- that's the way it was voted, and many of us feared it would be so).

As for GT, no arguments from me or anyone else than Ro$$ is the better tactical coach. But we'll never know how far we could've gone with GT because GT didn't have Dave Misson and didn't have a good relationship with the president of the AFL.

I dont belittle the others at all. That has never been my way. I just remember their form back than. I dont care what they did afterwards. How can you been taken seriously when you want max to play ahead of Raph. One was FB amd that was it and Zac had tyhat gig. Raph wasnt going to be replaced by Max ever. No GT didnt have misson but he had Powell, Penny, hamill, Peckett, G Train, and i could keep going on plus the younger stars. Dont get the GT think and the president of the AFL at all. people need to realise under RL game plan he needed players to play a role. Im pretty sure he would have picked others if he thought they could do it unless you actually think he didnt want to win a flag.

I'm saying Ro$$ made poor selection decisions because he was hellbent on stamping his personal signature on the team. And yes Hudghton would've been full back but Dawson or Gwilt or even Maguire had the fitness to take Raph's role. Raph had rings run around him in the 2009 GF so I can't imagine who would've been slower.

Had to edit my first post re GT and his lack of a good relationship with "the president OR the AFL." When you're not getting unqualified support from your bosses, it doesn't help.

[Spinner]

Agreed with previous comment.

You don't win flags with players like MCqualter and Eddy (AND RAPH CLARKE) in a grand final teams.

Ro$$'s strange obsession with his role players -- McQualter, Eddy, Raph Clarke and even Blake and Dawson -- stood in sharp contrast to his seeming disdain for some of the heart-and-soul players -- Ball, Hudghton, Maguire -- and his disinclination to give game-time to some of the more promising young players: Armo, Geary, even Jack Steven.

A great tactical coach with a fair bit of mongrel in him (like many successful coaches), but his mental issues and insecurities probably prevented us from going the full distance.

Its amazing what we forget over time. max was finished for sure. Goose was also struggling at sandy. Ball had a very poor year. Look at the stats. Just a pretty simple question. If those 5 players you mentioned werent good enough how did we win 19 in a row? GT had a much better list and couldnt do it. Geary played a lot of footy by the way and wasnt Eddy young or that doesnt count. Armo played 12 games in his second year and jack was stuffed with OP. Mental issues. What a lot of crap.

You dont win flags with Eddy and Mini in the side. But you win 2 with Mario Bortalotto.

It's not hindsight. Most of us were stunned at the time that Eddy was getting games in finals. McQualter, too, though his 2009 year was good. Ball may have had a bad year in 2009 but that could've due to opportunities and his relationship with the coach -- he went on to eke out some good years in a successful team. Maguire was coming back from injury but he too has since had success at another club, and would have been preferable to Raph Clarke in the 2009 GF. Gwilt would have been too. Hudghton also (just ask players from other clubs who couldn't believe he'd been dropped). And RoSS's poor handling of Ball and Hudghton went on to cost us dearly in 2010.

Yes we won 19 in a row but we didn't win the flag ... no other team has done such a thing, so you just underline my point.

Yep we won 19 in a row with all those issues. It makes sense. max was finished and saying he wasnt proves your memory is failing you. Ball was very good at the pies but they played different footy to us and was also fitter. What Goose has done at brisbane has liitle to do with what he did in the year he couldnt get a game with us. Another issue of forgetting his form back then.

Im really surprsied to scored in the GF with all these faults. You must really think GT was a shocking coach because had a much better side and didnt even make the GF.

It's not whether Hudghton, Maguire and Armo etc were in ripping form, it's whether they were better options that Eddy, McQualter and Clarke etc. You belittle the subsequent careers of Ball and Maguire and say Hudghton was finished but what happened to the others? Eddy was delisted and no one went near him. Ditto Raph Clarke. McQualter got picked up by Brisbane and had a disastrous year. They shouldn't have been playing in the first place, even in a team whose bottom six was terrible. And a last hurrah from Hudghton in the 2009 GF would have been better than Raph's worst-afield performance (that's not a personal opinion -- that's the way it was voted, and many of us feared it would be so).

As for GT, no arguments from me or anyone else than Ro$$ is the better tactical coach. But we'll never know how far we could've gone with GT because GT didn't have Dave Misson and didn't have a good relationship with the president or the AFL.

So you want to play Max at HBF in front of Clarke.... And Armo at HFF/FP for McQualter. Armo can barely run out games now let along 6 years ago.

And Maguire for who?

These players would have made no difference, and they aren't even replacing the same positions for the players who you say shouldn't have played.

So just stop.

[gringo]

I rarely agree with Plugger but there is a lot of bulls*** narrative written after a loss. The myth of why we didn't win keeps growing and becoming set in stone. I think Dawson showed he was capable in the finals and Hudgeton was getting older and injury prone. If we had gone in and lost because Max did a calf in the first 10 minutes of a final we possibly wouldn't have played in a GF.
Eddy was a very inexperienced player but was more experienced than Armo and Steven who were young and not at the same aerobic standard of fitness as Eddy who was a Mr Fixit type. Ross' game plan dictates that fitness is paramount, if you can't run and spread you aren't worth carrying. When Goose went he looked cooked. The fact that he's had a career as good as he has is great for him but we cut him and X because we doubted they were ever going to be fit enough again.

If you make one GF you are a very good team, make two an excellent team win a couple and you are an outstanding team. Win several over a longer period and you are an all time great team. Richmond haven't even played in 2 consecutive finals since 1974 until this year. If a coach gets his team to that many he must be very good no matter what team he gets to work with. History is littered with guys who destroyed good lists.

[kosifantutti]

Definitely not hindsight.
Many on here were very vocal throughout 09 and 10 that we couldn't win a flag with those two.
They were right. RL should have made more effort to bolster our squad in 07-10.

if u look at the premiership sides they have no weak links.

I reckon people were vocal in 2011 - 2014. I can't remember any in 09/10.

Interesting that Collingwood with no weak links, drew with a team that had six weak links. That's probably the reason the ball wouldn't bounce for Milne.

[Enrico_Misso]

Bobby Rose coached without GF success.

Bobby was a thoroughly decent bloke.
Wouldn't call him a liar.

Would still love to see Freo win through to a GF just to Ross could lose another one

Personally I think he has blown his chance.
They have recruited no one - does that sound familiar?
When Pavlova retires their chance will be gone with no-one coming through.

Good Riddance Ross !

[Johnny Member]

Only once, in one very short era has scores of >70 ever been good enough to win flags.

His philosophy is flawed.

He's had 5 years to change it, and he hasn't. He's even acknowledged the flaw - but hasn't proven capable of changing it.


He's no genius. He's brilliant at getting players to 'buy in'. But what he has them buying into is a lemon.

Toe pokes, bad bounces, benching gun players, poor tactical game day coaching, etc. etc. is not why we lost 2 winnable flags. It's cause we couldn't kick a big enough score. Full stop.

Same reason why Freo haven't and almost certainly won't win a flag.


And that is purely the work of Ross Lyon. And if its not, and the players at two clubs over 6 years aren't listening to him - then clearly he isn't a good coach at all.

[Waltzing St Kilda]

Agreed with previous comment.

You don't win flags with players like MCqualter and Eddy (AND RAPH CLARKE) in a grand final teams.

Ro$$'s strange obsession with his role players -- McQualter, Eddy, Raph Clarke and even Blake and Dawson -- stood in sharp contrast to his seeming disdain for some of the heart-and-soul players -- Ball, Hudghton, Maguire -- and his disinclination to give game-time to some of the more promising young players: Armo, Geary, even Jack Steven.

A great tactical coach with a fair bit of mongrel in him (like many successful coaches), but his mental issues and insecurities probably prevented us from going the full distance.

Its amazing what we forget over time. max was finished for sure. Goose was also struggling at sandy. Ball had a very poor year. Look at the stats. Just a pretty simple question. If those 5 players you mentioned werent good enough how did we win 19 in a row? GT had a much better list and couldnt do it. Geary played a lot of footy by the way and wasnt Eddy young or that doesnt count. Armo played 12 games in his second year and jack was stuffed with OP. Mental issues. What a lot of crap.

You dont win flags with Eddy and Mini in the side. But you win 2 with Mario Bortalotto.

It's not hindsight. Most of us were stunned at the time that Eddy was getting games in finals. McQualter, too, though his 2009 year was good. Ball may have had a bad year in 2009 but that could've due to opportunities and his relationship with the coach -- he went on to eke out some good years in a successful team. Maguire was coming back from injury but he too has since had success at another club, and would have been preferable to Raph Clarke in the 2009 GF. Gwilt would have been too. Hudghton also (just ask players from other clubs who couldn't believe he'd been dropped). And RoSS's poor handling of Ball and Hudghton went on to cost us dearly in 2010.

Yes we won 19 in a row but we didn't win the flag ... no other team has done such a thing, so you just underline my point.

You obviously didn't read my subsequent post: And yes Hudghton would've been full back but Dawson or Gwilt or even Maguire had the fitness to take Raph's role. Raph had rings run around him in the 2009 GF so I can't imagine who would've been slower.



Yep we won 19 in a row with all those issues. It makes sense. max was finished and saying he wasnt proves your memory is failing you. Ball was very good at the pies but they played different footy to us and was also fitter. What Goose has done at brisbane has liitle to do with what he did in the year he couldnt get a game with us. Another issue of forgetting his form back then.

Im really surprsied to scored in the GF with all these faults. You must really think GT was a shocking coach because had a much better side and didnt even make the GF.

It's not whether Hudghton, Maguire and Armo etc were in ripping form, it's whether they were better options that Eddy, McQualter and Clarke etc. You belittle the subsequent careers of Ball and Maguire and say Hudghton was finished but what happened to the others? Eddy was delisted and no one went near him. Ditto Raph Clarke. McQualter got picked up by Brisbane and had a disastrous year. They shouldn't have been playing in the first place, even in a team whose bottom six was terrible. And a last hurrah from Hudghton in the 2009 GF would have been better than Raph's worst-afield performance (that's not a personal opinion -- that's the way it was voted, and many of us feared it would be so).

As for GT, no arguments from me or anyone else than Ro$$ is the better tactical coach. But we'll never know how far we could've gone with GT because GT didn't have Dave Misson and didn't have a good relationship with the president or the AFL.

So you want to play Max at HBF in front of Clarke.... And Armo at HFF/FP for McQualter. Armo can barely run out games now let along 6 years ago.

And Maguire for who?

These players would have made no difference, and they aren't even replacing the same positions for the players who you say shouldn't have played.

So just stop.

You obviously didn't read my subsequent post: And yes Hudghton would've been full back but Dawson or Gwilt or even Maguire had the fitness to take Raph's role. Raph had rings run around him in the 2009 GF so I can't imagine who would've been slower.


Didn't say Armo should have replaced McQualter (I was thinking Eddy) but gee, was McQualter a running machine anyway? He was a shut-down player without any skill. Can't imagine Armo or someone else would have been any worse in 2010.

[Con Gorozidis]

Definitely not hindsight.
Many on here were very vocal throughout 09 and 10 that we couldn't win a flag with those two.
They were right. RL should have made more effort to bolster our squad in 07-10.

if u look at the premiership sides they have no weak links.

I reckon people were vocal in 2011 - 2014. I can't remember any in 09/10.

Interesting that Collingwood with no weak links, drew with a team that had six weak links. That's probably the reason the ball wouldn't bounce for Milne.

Well I cant account for your memory but im 100% certain people were vocal about McG and Eddy in 09-10.
It was a well discussed on here and in the general footy world that our bottom 6 were a poor bottom 6.
This was commonly held and commonly discussed at the time - it was not a hindsight issue.

And what is interesting about the pies having a more solid squad drawing with a side with a side with better a top 10 and a worse bottom 6? How is that interesting? Surely you can follow that concept?

Did you go to the drawn game? We got back to drawing that game on the back of absolutely heroic performances from our top 6 players. But their lower players (McCaffer, Toovey, Didak etc) all made contributions when it counted. Our lower players didnt.

But hey - you seem to be on a mission to argue with every post I put up this week - so carry on.

This a thread about Ross Lyon - but you haven't made one single comment on the actual thread topic. Are you defending Ross or just trying to argue with me?

Can you caution yourself for being off topic or baiting?

[kosifantutti]

For all the hindsight heroes who were calling for Dawson, McQualter and Eddy to be replaced by Maguire, Hudghton, Geary, Steven or Armo: why were you all silent in the discussion of the team?

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=65506

[saintsRrising]

Definitely not hindsight.

Sorry it is most definitely hindsight and hindsight that 100% ignores that we had the AFL's worst recruiting department.

.
They were right. RL should have made more effort to bolster our squad in 07-10.

.

And exactly how does the coach do this? Please detail how the coach was meant to bolster the squad, and since you have hindsight it will be dead easy for you to do so.

Again...it is our recruiters that were inept.
Recruiters get the cattle. Coach whips them into shape. Only so much one can do with poor cattle.

[saintsRrising]

It was a well discussed on here and in the general footy world that our bottom 6 were a poor bottom 6.
This was commonly held and commonly discussed at the time - it was not a hindsight issue.
?

It was, but again this was due to non-existent good players on our list.

Once again this was a recruiting issue, and not a coaching issue.

[Johnny Member]

In a very basic sense, he robs Peter to pay Paul.

The problem is he, unlike the premiership coaches, hasn't been able to find the required balance.

You just can't argue with the facts.


What will be fascinating, is what the Lyon legacy looks like when Pavlich, Sandilands, McPharlin etc. retire and or slow down considerably.

One Rising Star nom in 7 years is staggering really.

[Johnny Member]

Definitely not hindsight.

Sorry it is most definitely hindsight and hindsight that 100% ignores that we had the AFL's worst recruiting department.

.
They were right. RL should have made more effort to bolster our squad in 07-10.

.

And exactly how does the coach do this? Please detail how the coach was meant to bolster the squad, and since you have hindsight it will be dead easy for you to do so.

Again...it is our recruiters that were inept.
Recruiters get the cattle. Coach whips them into shape. Only so much one can do with poor cattle.

I think Lyon had a significant role in our list.