Luke Ball could captain Collingwood

[plugger66]

If Ball had of been open to a trade to any club Collingwood would of had ti come up with a decent trade to get him. Ball screwed the club his team mates and supporters.

Why should he be open to going to any club at all? Would you be happy to go to any company at all, even if they're shyte? The guy was an established player and leadership material. WTF wouldn't he want to go to a club where he might taste some success?
In your scenario, he could have gone to Melbourne or another bottom dweller and maybe never played another final. But he should have been willing to cop that for the sake of the club that had made it clear to him that his on-field skills were inadequate in an arbitrary benchmark set by Lyon?
That's crap.
He was perfectly entitled to look to go where he wanted to. Lyon gave him one message about his on-field value and then refused to deal with Collingwood because he was elite. Talk about a double message. Blame is fair and square with Lyon.

So he screwed us. Ball sooked and went to the highest bidder leaving his climb with nothing. The bloke burnt his team mates and all those who supported him . He had no reason other than being a selfish sook.

Great debating.

[CURLY]

Ball screwed us P66 don't try and argue differant the bloke sooked and made it impossible for us to get a fair trade.

Yep OK Curly we've heard about what a sook he is. You've posted that about ten times. How about addressing :

- his right to choose his own destiny. Tell us why exactly he should have been willing to go to any club at all, just like you'd be willing to work for any firm.
- Lyon's arbitrary mid-field running benchmark that led to him being dropped. Malthouse didn't have a problem with his on-field value. Seem to remember him collecting a premiership medallion.
- How many players can you remember stipulating the terms of who they'll be traded for? Can't name any myself. Yet you reckon Ball should somehow have influenced this.

Ball left StKilda because he didnt like what a coach asked of him. The only word that can be used to descibe that is sooking. What a gutless act to turn his back on the club that had given him his chance and stood by him. Why would anyone defend him if everyone had his attitude players would leave each year to only play at higher plsced clubs.

[kosifantutti]

This may change with free agency, but plenty of players every year go to clubs who made the best offer for them. By refusing to talk to anyone but Collingwood, Ball severely affected our chances of securing a decent return.

On this link
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2009_AFL_Draft
There's a list of players traded that year. I don't know the intricacies of any of the deals but I'm sure a lot of them went to the club that gave the best deal to the player and the original club.

[CURLY]

This may change with free agency, but plenty of players every year go to clubs who made the best offer for them. By refusing to talk to anyone but Collingwood, Ball severely affected our chances of securing a decent return.

On this link
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2009_AFL_Draft
There's a list of players traded that year. I don't know the intricacies of any of the deals but I'm sure a lot of them went to the club that gave the best deal to the player and the original club.

Correct.

[st.byron]

Ball left StKilda because he didnt like what a coach asked of him. The only word that can be used to descibe that is sooking. What a gutless act to turn his back on the club that had given him his chance and stood by him. Why would anyone defend him if everyone had his attitude players would leave each year to only play at higher plsced clubs.

Fair enough Curly. We'll just have to agree to disagree. In my book he left because of Lyon's intransigence.

[CURLY]

Ball left StKilda because he didnt like what a coach asked of him. The only word that can be used to descibe that is sooking. What a gutless act to turn his back on the club that had given him his chance and stood by him. Why would anyone defend him if everyone had his attitude players would leave each year to only play at higher plsced clubs.

Fair enough Curly. We'll just have to agree to disagree. In my book he left because of Lyon's intransigence.

Lyon was his senior coach he had every right to expect his players to do what he asked and expected. Cant have the tail wagging the dog.

[st.byron]

Lyon was his senior coach he had every right to expect his players to do what he asked and expected. Cant have the tail wagging the dog.

True. Lyon was his senior coach. But what Lyon was asking was perhaps a little intransigent and narrow. Every good boss knows when to tailor the expectations for the qualities of the employee. And the proof of that is in the fact that Ball went to Collingwood where he played a significant role in a flag. Whether Ball could run flat-out 50% of his on-field time or not didn't seem to matter to Malthouse. He recognised Ball's in and under ball winning skills for what they are.

[SainterK]

Lyon was his senior coach he had every right to expect his players to do what he asked and expected. Cant have the tail wagging the dog.

True. Lyon was his senior coach. But what Lyon was asking was perhaps a little intransigent and narrow. Every good boss knows when to tailor the expectations for the qualities of the employee. And the proof of that is in the fact that Ball went to Collingwood where he played a significant role in a flag. Whether Ball could run flat-out 50% of his on-field time or not didn't seem to matter to Malthouse. He recognised Ball's in and under ball winning skills for what they are.

Except that in 2007, Lyon played Ball as a tagger (before Clint) and he ran with most of the comps best and did it quite well. I don't think he liked it though...

[tweedaletomanning]

This may change with free agency, but plenty of players every year go to clubs who made the best offer for them. By refusing to talk to anyone but Collingwood, Ball severely affected our chances of securing a decent return.

On this link
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2009_AFL_Draft
There's a list of players traded that year. I don't know the intricacies of any of the deals but I'm sure a lot of them went to the club that gave the best deal to the player and the original club.

Excellent post.

Can't believe true saint supporters are defending this bastard!! He abandoned his life long mates for personal glory.

VERY VERY BAD EXAMPLE FOR KIDS. If you don't get EXACTLY what you want, then F***k over the people that stuck by you during the tough times.

[plugger66]

This may change with free agency, but plenty of players every year go to clubs who made the best offer for them. By refusing to talk to anyone but Collingwood, Ball severely affected our chances of securing a decent return.

On this link
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2009_AFL_Draft
There's a list of players traded that year. I don't know the intricacies of any of the deals but I'm sure a lot of them went to the club that gave the best deal to the player and the original club.

Excellent post.

Can't believe true saint supporters are defending this bastard!! He abandoned his life long mates for personal glory.

VERY VERY BAD EXAMPLE FOR KIDS. If you don't get EXACTLY what you want, then F***k over the people that stuck by you during the tough times.

So a true Saint cant see why a player left. I can see both sides of the story so in your opinion I arent a true saint. Cant cop that at all. Is Aaron Hamill are bad example for kids because he left after having a fight with the president? And I sure we have got others over time like that as well.

[CURLY]

Pretty clear cut why he left. He cracked the s***s after a senior coach has done what senior coaches do. Inexcusable by Ball cant see why anyone would defend him.

[plugger66]

Pretty clear cut why he left. He cracked the s***s after a senior coach has done what senior coaches do. Inexcusable by Ball cant see why anyone would defend him.

I agree if it was slightly true. Do you write Fiction books. Love it when people just think it is an open and shut case when they dont know the facts.

[CURLY]

Pretty clear cut why he left. He cracked the s***s after a senior coach has done what senior coaches do. Inexcusable by Ball cant see why anyone would defend him.

I agree if it was slightly true. Do you write Fiction books. Love it when people just think it is an open and shut case when they dont know the facts.

The facts are he left and bent the club over in the process. The End

[plugger66]

Pretty clear cut why he left. He cracked the s***s after a senior coach has done what senior coaches do. Inexcusable by Ball cant see why anyone would defend him.

I agree if it was slightly true. Do you write Fiction books. Love it when people just think it is an open and shut case when they dont know the facts.

The facts are he left and bent the club over in the process. The End

Of course that is every single fact. What is your latest book called?

[CURLY]

They are the facts that are important. The rest is trivial after the fact bulkshit designed to confuse the nieve supporters that he had no choice. Seems to have worked on a few.

[plugger66]

They are the facts that are important. The rest is trivial after the fact bulkshit designed to confuse the nieve supporters that he had no choice. Seems to have worked on a few.

I love it when people try to discuss something and then a person says that they are right without proof and the others are naive. It may work on some morons but it isnt working on me. You argument is very weak because you have no idea of the facts as I dont either. And if you can prove that to be untrue then show me otherwise i will disregard what you say.

[CURLY]

They are the facts that are important. The rest is trivial after the fact bulkshit designed to confuse the nieve supporters that he had no choice. Seems to have worked on a few.

I love it when people try to discuss something and then a person says that they are right without proof and the others are naive. It may work on some morons but it isnt working on me. You argument is very weak because you have no idea of the facts as I dont either. And if you can prove that to be untrue then show me otherwise i will disregard what you say.

The bloke left and the only reasons hes given have been piss week. Then to make it worse he back doors us trade week. The blokes a dog.

[plugger66]

They are the facts that are important. The rest is trivial after the fact bulkshit designed to confuse the nieve supporters that he had no choice. Seems to have worked on a few.

I love it when people try to discuss something and then a person says that they are right without proof and the others are naive. It may work on some morons but it isnt working on me. You argument is very weak because you have no idea of the facts as I dont either. And if you can prove that to be untrue then show me otherwise i will disregard what you say.

The bloke left and the only reasons hes given have been piss week. Then to make it worse he back doors us trade week. The blokes a dog.

With your strong arguments you have convinced me like when you said Judd should get nothing for the chicken wing and the players lost 2 weeks after the pies game because of poor umpiring that week. Yes yo do argue strongly.

[CURLY]

Im not arguing theres nothing to argue Ball did the wrong thing plain and simple.

[plugger66]

Im not arguing theres nothing to argue Ball did the wrong thing plain and simple.

Like I said you convinced me. I thought Judd should have been given a couple of weeks in credit and I thought the umpiring in the pies game last year cost us the 2010 GF. You do argue strongly.

[CURLY]

Im not arguing theres nothing to argue Ball did the wrong thing plain and simple.

Like I said you convinced me. I thought Judd should have been given a couple of weeks in credit and I thought the umpiring in the pies game last year cost us the 2010 GF. You do argue strongly.

You think by sitting on s computer all day you win but youve not posted onr ghing to justify Ball doing what he did. The Judd thing yeah I stand by what I posted it was no where near as bad as made out by some.

[HitTheBoundary]

The facts are he left and bent the club over in the process. The End

That he left is a fact. That he bent the club over in the process is your opinion. Just because somethings your opinion doesn't make it a fact.

As I recall it was the club that tried to stonewall as hard as Ball did, and we lost out. If we had've accepted the draft pick offered and picked a gun, the whole thing may now be seen differently. So the choices made by the club were poor in retrospect.

[joffaboy]

Didn't others take cuts in contracts to fit under the SC so the group could be left together to fighyt for a flag?

When it was Balls turn to take a cut he wouldn't and left for $150k a season more than the Saints offered.

Nothing wrong with doing that. He wanted more money, he got offered more money, and then wrangled the draft to get that money.

There is no loyalty in football re players and fans. He may have done the wrong thing by his teammates but thats between him and them.

bj left for more money, and why not?

Next year when we are flushed with funds and lure a Dale Thomas for example (just an example, dont go wild) will they be disloyal and a dog?

Really still discussing a GOP at best who jumped ship for more money 3 seasons ago is very strange. Luke Ball seems to be well liked by his curent teammates and other footballers considering his position as president of the football palyers union.

Really everyone - move on.

[SaintPav]

Really everyone - move on.

Saintsaitional members move on?!? Yeah, good luck with that.

[HitTheBoundary]

Really everyone - move on.

I still haven't recovered from this.....

http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=SM ... rich&hl=en