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stinger wrote:i actually only care about employees not being done over by their employers....so did the court...hence it's decision.....if thomas wasn't legally owed the money as you state...the court would not have awarded mim any money.....it's as simple as that......doesn't mean pple acept the decision.....a bit like umpires never get it right.....it wasn;t the club's money...or ours...it was thomas'money....
Whatever your opinion of the decision - if you're going to argue semantics then at least be accurate with the terms - not an employee and employer - but a contractor and client.
no...i was very specific in the words i used...if the court held he was a contractor and the saints were clients it would not have ruled the way it did....
i'mjust stating facts...you are the one with the opinions....
.everybody still loves lenny....and we always will
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However, freedom of expression is not encouraged in certain forums.
evertonfc wrote:Grant Thomas restored the dignity and integrity in the football club when it was at rock bottom.
Actually, he gave the place the dignity and integrity it had almost never known, save for the time under Allan Jeans.
At the time of Blight's dismissal, I was shattered. I'll never forget how and where I heard the news. I spent the next 30 minutes speechless and trying to comprehend how it all happened.
But in retrospect, I understand why it happened. Blight's commitment was questionable. He seemed tired before he'd even taken the job.
GT may not have had a track record in the elite, but we went from also-rans into playing the most exciting and effective football the club had probably ever played to that point. [Our 2004 team was on a different wave to the 1997 team - look at the squads if you don't believe me. In 1997, all the big teams of previous years - WCE, Roos, Carlton, Ess, Syd - really struggled, and a team from 4th snuck through to win it, and 5th a year later.]
But GT changed the direction of the club. That can't be disputed.
We believed we were a decent club. We became a decent club.
The foundations of recent 'success' were laid by GT.
good post mate......you are starting to make it a habit...and i couldn't be more pleased.....
.everybody still loves lenny....and we always will
"Freedom of expression is the cornerstone of a free society,"
However, freedom of expression is not encouraged in certain forums.
evertonfc wrote:Grant Thomas restored the dignity and integrity in the football club when it was at rock bottom.
Actually, he gave the place the dignity and integrity it had almost never known, save for the time under Allan Jeans.
At the time of Blight's dismissal, I was shattered. I'll never forget how and where I heard the news. I spent the next 30 minutes speechless and trying to comprehend how it all happened.
But in retrospect, I understand why it happened. Blight's commitment was questionable. He seemed tired before he'd even taken the job.
GT may not have had a track record in the elite, but we went from also-rans into playing the most exciting and effective football the club had probably ever played to that point. [Our 2004 team was on a different wave to the 1997 team - look at the squads if you don't believe me. In 1997, all the big teams of previous years - WCE, Roos, Carlton, Ess, Syd - really struggled, and a team from 4th snuck through to win it, and 5th a year later.]
But GT changed the direction of the club. That can't be disputed.
We believed we were a decent club. We became a decent club.
The foundations of recent 'success' were laid by GT.
White Winmar wrote:Matt Rendell? Doing a bang up job as list manager at the crows. Thank goodness he went when he did. Slowly driving the crows list into the ground.
Rendell was the architect of the two picks for Barry Brooks Pick 6 and a second rounder as if pick 6 wasn't enough already and Thomas signed off on it, FAIR DINKUM
evertonfc wrote:Grant Thomas restored the dignity and integrity in the football club when it was at rock bottom.
Actually, he gave the place the dignity and integrity it had almost never known, save for the time under Allan Jeans.
At the time of Blight's dismissal, I was shattered. I'll never forget how and where I heard the news. I spent the next 30 minutes speechless and trying to comprehend how it all happened.
But in retrospect, I understand why it happened. Blight's commitment was questionable. He seemed tired before he'd even taken the job.
GT may not have had a track record in the elite, but we went from also-rans into playing the most exciting and effective football the club had probably ever played to that point. [Our 2004 team was on a different wave to the 1997 team - look at the squads if you don't believe me. In 1997, all the big teams of previous years - WCE, Roos, Carlton, Ess, Syd - really struggled, and a team from 4th snuck through to win it, and 5th a year later.]
But GT changed the direction of the club. That can't be disputed.
We believed we were a decent club. We became a decent club.
The foundations of recent 'success' were laid by GT.
What an absolute crock of shyte, FAIR DINKUM!
No barks, it's true. All of it's true. Relax, breath, accept.
I think time will reflect well on GT. He restored some much needed pride to the club whatever you think of him as a person and coach. He has been superceded by a great tactician and developing head coach who has the respect of the business St.Kilda = on track.
I've never seen a bad St.Kilda player - that's just how they are.
White Winmar wrote:I just hope that one day, one of the St.Kilda staff that had to put up with Blight's "weird" behaviour has the courage to write about it. People like Brian Phelan the HR Manager, Waldo and GT himself. From smoking in the coaches box against Essendon and throwing up his hands in defeat after ten minutes, to tearing strips off people for no apparent reason and for just plain old absenteeism, Malcolm the "Super Coach" did it all. The clincher was when Butterss and Thomas asked him for his master plan for the club. A one page document with several bullet points on it was the last straw, I'm led to believe. I wish GT would unload on him to set the record straight once and for all. He was lazy, uncommitted and bizarre to put it mildly. Thoroughly deserved his fate.
I suppose Blight could have just written down- premiership coach '97 and premiership player and passed the paper to Butters and GT and said "now show me your quals"
I suppose he could have done that Spert. It would have been nice if he actually made the slightest of efforts to live up to his impressive CV. His behaviour was disgraceful. The way he took the money and did SFA in return says a lot about him and his state of mind at the time. Should never have taken the job. The club had every right to expect he had a blueprint for future success. GT even tried to help him draw one up in a last minute bid to ensure things settled down. Unfortunately for Malcolm, he drove off while GT stood dumbfounded out the front of Blight's house. You know the rest.
A former Cat player who played under Blight told me years ago that Blight was a weird unit, but knew his stuff, had specific ideas on how things needed to be done and didn't tolerate dickheads from players through to the president basically, and at Adelaide, they just let him have his way and he got them results
White Winmar wrote:I just hope that one day, one of the St.Kilda staff that had to put up with Blight's "weird" behaviour has the courage to write about it. People like Brian Phelan the HR Manager, Waldo and GT himself. From smoking in the coaches box against Essendon and throwing up his hands in defeat after ten minutes, to tearing strips off people for no apparent reason and for just plain old absenteeism, Malcolm the "Super Coach" did it all. The clincher was when Butterss and Thomas asked him for his master plan for the club. A one page document with several bullet points on it was the last straw, I'm led to believe. I wish GT would unload on him to set the record straight once and for all. He was lazy, uncommitted and bizarre to put it mildly. Thoroughly deserved his fate.
I suppose Blight could have just written down- premiership coach '97 and premiership player and passed the paper to Butters and GT and said "now show me your quals"
I suppose he could have done that Spert. It would have been nice if he actually made the slightest of efforts to live up to his impressive CV. His behaviour was disgraceful. The way he took the money and did SFA in return says a lot about him and his state of mind at the time. Should never have taken the job. The club had every right to expect he had a blueprint for future success. GT even tried to help him draw one up in a last minute bid to ensure things settled down. Unfortunately for Malcolm, he drove off while GT stood dumbfounded out the front of Blight's house. You know the rest.
A former Cat player who played under Blight told me years ago that Blight was a weird unit, but knew his stuff, had specific ideas on how things needed to be done and didn't tolerate dickheads from players through to the president basically, and at Adelaide, they just let him have his way and he got them results
White Winmar wrote:I just hope that one day, one of the St.Kilda staff that had to put up with Blight's "weird" behaviour has the courage to write about it. People like Brian Phelan the HR Manager, Waldo and GT himself. From smoking in the coaches box against Essendon and throwing up his hands in defeat after ten minutes, to tearing strips off people for no apparent reason and for just plain old absenteeism, Malcolm the "Super Coach" did it all. The clincher was when Butterss and Thomas asked him for his master plan for the club. A one page document with several bullet points on it was the last straw, I'm led to believe. I wish GT would unload on him to set the record straight once and for all. He was lazy, uncommitted and bizarre to put it mildly. Thoroughly deserved his fate.
I suppose Blight could have just written down- premiership coach '97 and premiership player and passed the paper to Butters and GT and said "now show me your quals"
I suppose he could have done that Spert. It would have been nice if he actually made the slightest of efforts to live up to his impressive CV. His behaviour was disgraceful. The way he took the money and did SFA in return says a lot about him and his state of mind at the time. Should never have taken the job. The club had every right to expect he had a blueprint for future success. GT even tried to help him draw one up in a last minute bid to ensure things settled down. Unfortunately for Malcolm, he drove off while GT stood dumbfounded out the front of Blight's house. You know the rest.
A former Cat player who played under Blight told me years ago that Blight was a weird unit, but knew his stuff, had specific ideas on how things needed to be done and didn't tolerate dickheads from players through to the president basically, and at Adelaide, they just let him have his way and he got them results
White Winmar wrote:I just hope that one day, one of the St.Kilda staff that had to put up with Blight's "weird" behaviour has the courage to write about it. People like Brian Phelan the HR Manager, Waldo and GT himself. From smoking in the coaches box against Essendon and throwing up his hands in defeat after ten minutes, to tearing strips off people for no apparent reason and for just plain old absenteeism, Malcolm the "Super Coach" did it all. The clincher was when Butterss and Thomas asked him for his master plan for the club. A one page document with several bullet points on it was the last straw, I'm led to believe. I wish GT would unload on him to set the record straight once and for all. He was lazy, uncommitted and bizarre to put it mildly. Thoroughly deserved his fate.
White Winmar, you will find that if a book was written by St Kilda staff who worked with both Blight and Thomas at the time, it wouldnt go how you think.
Last edited by dirtydog24 on Fri 21 Oct 2011 3:38pm, edited 1 time in total.
Unless you are Brian Phelan, Dirtydog24, I'll go with what I've been told directly......by Brian Phelan, who worked for me after leaving the saints. As for the other stuff, perhaps you could enlighten us, as you are implying you have direct evidence contradicting what I've reported.
I started with nothing and I've got most of it left!
White Winmar wrote:But....you learn more in 15 weeks with Blight than you do in 6 years with GT. One is a footy oracle the other the exact opposite.
lol - crock of s.hite.
Blight was past it when he took the job and sent the club backwards.
Was not interested in rebuilding the club, but the $mill a year.
Butters was wrong to chase him, but spot on correct to sack the bludging hasbeen.
Considering it was documented he hardly talked to the senior players would be interested how they would have learned anything from Blight apart from how to play a good five iron consiodering all he did was practice his golf swings at training.
Thank god the Saints sacked the fraud.
Lance or James??
There comes a point in every man's life when he has to say, "Enough is enough." For me, that time is now. I have been dealing with claims that I cheated and had an unfair advantage in <redacted>. Over the past three years, I have been subjected to a <redacted>investigation followed by <redacted> witch hunt. The toll this has taken on my family, and my work for <redacted>and on me leads me to where I am today – finished with this nonsense. (Oops just got a spontaneous errection <unredacted>)
White Winmar wrote:But....you learn more in 15 weeks with Blight than you do in 6 years with GT. One is a footy oracle the other the exact opposite.
lol - crock of s.hite.
Blight was past it when he took the job and sent the club backwards.
Was not interested in rebuilding the club, but the $mill a year.
Butters was wrong to chase him, but spot on correct to sack the bludging hasbeen.
Considering it was documented he hardly talked to the senior players would be interested how they would have learned anything from Blight apart from how to play a good five iron consiodering all he did was practice his golf swings at training.
Thank god the Saints sacked the fraud.
It was certainly the correct call to sack Blight, and an incredibly gutsy call.
The media was always going to come after us hard for having the gall to sack one of the legends of the game.
White Winmar wrote:But....you learn more in 15 weeks with Blight than you do in 6 years with GT. One is a footy oracle the other the exact opposite.
lol - crock of s.hite.
Blight was past it when he took the job and sent the club backwards.
Was not interested in rebuilding the club, but the $mill a year.
Butters was wrong to chase him, but spot on correct to sack the bludging hasbeen.
Considering it was documented he hardly talked to the senior players would be interested how they would have learned anything from Blight apart from how to play a good five iron considering all he did was practice his golf swings at training.
Thank god the Saints sacked the fraud.
Why have I been falsely quoted, dirtydog24? I didn't write the above mentioned quote. I was glad they sacked Blight. BTW, I have my own Sean Charles story. It might be the same one you are referring to. Brian and I often joked about writing a book about Blighty's "escapades" at Moorabbin. If even half the stories were true, then it would be a cracker. He certainly achieved a lot in his short time at St.Kilda. Unfortunately none of his "achievements" related to football!
I started with nothing and I've got most of it left!
InkerSaint wrote:Some of this stuff really makes me laugh:
''In relation to me and my coaching ability, I am happy to stand up to whatever scrutiny anyone wants to give. I am happy to stand on the record of what I achieved. I am happy to stand on where the club was and where it currently is,'' Thomas told The Age.
The flog still has the nerve to claim credit for his successor's achievements.
No-one denies that Butterss and Grant transformed the club's culture and self-image. We all know, however, that in dragging the club out of the dark ages, they left the football department systems, processes, and facilities behind.
Blight was a greedy fool who got caught as was St Kilda - the guy wanted the cash and was over coaching and his methods were well outdated. We made a huge mistake - we tried to buy "cred" in the footy world off a coaching legend who wasnt up for it. Woulda had more luck luring Tom Hafey out from the home...
Thomas was the right man as a CARETAKER coach. That BECAME a problem after he started seeing himself as much more than that...believing his own corporate spin and power he went way out of control.....the club shoulda forced his hand much earlier but Butters and their relationship got in the way. Rod was weak.
Shame cause I still reckon with decent injury management and football nous in the box....that side with a young Gherig, Hamill, younger Harvey and quality youth in Riewoldts, Kosi, Dal, Hayes and co....was a monty for a flag........
stinger wrote:no...i was very specific in the words i used...if the court held he was a contractor and the saints were clients it would not have ruled the way it did....
i'mjust stating facts...you are the one with the opinions....
I've done some careful thinking. And come to agree with you on both counts.
Grant Thomas doesn't deserve my ire on the matter of his settlement, or club finances.
"Things happen," Thomas said. "I'm very disappointed obviously because you don't put your heart and soul into something and not get disappointed."
There is no doubt he was tremendously aggrieved at his dismissal, and had every right to press his claim. And, I'll add, he handled it with great dignity.
This (Feb 2009):
Westaway, who was elected for three years after overthrowing Rod Butterss' board, was referring in part to the costly legal battle with sacked coach Grant Thomas which continued to hurt the club last season. That litigation dispute, coupled with the legal dispute with the Kingston Council, cost the club $295,000 in 2008.
In a president's report to be released today, Westaway wrote: "The Grant Thomas litigation, in particular, had become, in our view, a significant distraction to our cause, an impost on our members and had potential to cause long-term damage to the Saints brand and our club."
Came after this (July 2008):
While Levine and fellow director John Gdanski, along with Fraser, were at the club at the time of Thomas' dismissal, it is understood that Butterss and former director Mark Kellett were responsible for the offer of the $100,000 non-disparagement or "hush money" deal which was one of the matters contested in court.
Thomas was promised payment of the $100,000 to his company, GDT Solutions, in April last year if he refrained from destabilising the club, observed confidences and did not try to lure players from the club. Butterss accused Thomas of failing to honour these conditions and withheld the money.
At one point the former president described Thomas as a "virus" and accused him of meddling in the affairs of certain players and of trying to maintain relationships with them that were unhelpful to St Kilda, specifically new coach Ross Lyon.
Judge Bourke disagreed and wondered why Butterss was not called to give evidence.
"Thomas has performed and observed all of his obligations in respect of non-disparagement, non-poaching and confidentiality. The club has never suggested or run a case to the contrary," Judge Bourke said in her judgment.
Why on earth would you not call on the architect of the arrangement you are disputing?
After this (Sep 2006):
It was revealed last night that Thomas' fate was sealed months ago when the Saints' board began to sound out the availability of incumbent coaches to take over at the end of the season.
The club's directors felt they had no option other than to release Thomas.
A senior St Kilda source said last night not even a grand final appearance would have guaranteed Thomas' future.
President Rod Butterss admitted yesterday's announcement was a "crystallisation" of the thought processes of the board over the past few months.
How does a guy who made his fortune in recruiting spend months planning a dismissal and make such a monumental c**k-up of it? What kind of employment or services contract doesn't already have protection written into it? Why try to shuffle the deck on a leave entitlement on which no records have been kept?
Irrational. Badly thought-out. And disrespectful.
Frankly, I'm a little embarrassed. My opinions on this subject have been ridiculous.
"... You want to pose a threat to the opposition in as many ways as you can, both defensively and offensively. We've got a responsibility to explore all those possibilities - and we will."
Teflon wrote:Blight was a greedy fool who got caught as was St Kilda - the guy wanted the cash and was over coaching and his methods were well outdated. We made a huge mistake - we tried to buy "cred" in the footy world off a coaching legend who wasnt up for it. Woulda had more luck luring Tom Hafey out from the home...
Thomas was the right man as a CARETAKER coach. That BECAME a problem after he started seeing himself as much more than that...believing his own corporate spin and power he went way out of control.....the club shoulda forced his hand much earlier but Butters and their relationship got in the way. Rod was weak.
Shame cause I still reckon with decent injury management and football nous in the box....that side with a young Gherig, Hamill, younger Harvey and quality youth in Riewoldts, Kosi, Dal, Hayes and co....was a monty for a flag........
