Collingwood's Draw

[The_Merchant]

I don't get the "the draw cannot be fair because there are only 22 rounds and 17-18 teams" line. The priority of the AFL when doing the fixture should be integrity first, maximising attendances second. Unfortunately it is the other way around.
We cannot have an "even" draw because of the number of teams, we can still have a "fair" one though.
There is more that comes into fairness than just the interstate travel but do you really think it is fair that StKilda had to travel 2 out of 3 weeks with a bye as the other week this year? We didn't play in Melbourne in rounds 4-6. Nth's draw was disgraceful with two games in WA in the first 4 weeks as well as a bye. That was one game in Melbourne in the first 4 weeks of the season.
What would Eddie say if the AFL did that to Collingwood?

Other sports don't fixture their entire season based on record crowd attendances, we shouldn't either. The job of the AFL is not to maximise revenue, it is a non-profit organisation, it is to oversee the running of our great game. They should do it with integrity, with their first priority to create a balanced playing field as much as possible.

It will be interesting to see the draw next year, when nearly half of the teams will be based interstate, and see if they can still manage to give Collingwood 18 games in Melbourne.

[Johnny Member]

The job of the AFL is not to maximise revenue, it is a non-profit organisation, it is to oversee the running of our great game. They should do it with integrity, with their first priority to create a balanced playing field as much as possible.

Exactly.

[Leo.J]

The job of the AFL is not to maximise revenue, it is a non-profit organisation, it is to oversee the running of our great game. They should do it with integrity, with their first priority to create a balanced playing field as much as possible.

Exactly.

Agreed.

Somewhere amongst all the propaganda and political speak this point has been lost in recent years.

Demetriou and his chronies are money hungry pigs.

Thats why he is happy to stand back and allow Eddy and the Filth do what they want, because it makes his pay cheque juicier.

LOOK WHAT WE HAVE BECOME!

I know that is a bit melodramatic, but it's true.

[dragit]

History says that clubs that receive an edge, or make the most of an edge have a much bigger chance to win the flag.

I reckon 'most' of the top sides of the past decade have had an extra advantage including us…
Geelong - the impact of the flawed Father-Son is underestimated, and the legacy continues still
Collingwood - Football department spend/draw huge advantage, which is self-perpetuating, a better draw every year gives you more exposure, more fans, more money
US - Priority picks, given we are very lopsided in talent, take out 1 or 2 stars and we wouldn't be anywhere near it…
Brisbane/Sydney - Salary Cap - Massive
Hawks - Priorities gave them Buddy and Roughead - 170 goals = flag
WCE - who knows why they had such good stamina?
Not sure about Port and the Dogs… well done if they didn't get a leg-up…
Now Carlton are packing loads of top 10 picks and look dangerous, Melbourne, GC and GWS next

As we know, they are very hard to win as it is, but when the AFL is skewing salary caps to ensure interstate teams are competetive and giving great draws to the biggest clubs it becomes nearly impossible.

We have adjusted the flawed father-son rules and priority pick systems as they were flawed, we don't however seemed to have learnt from the mistakes of massive salary cap differences and marquee fixturing. The AFL is addicted to cash like crack & nothing will get in their way…
Make no mistake, the AFL will ENSURE that the 2 new clubs will win flags, soon. The only start-up yet to is freo… I really believe that the head-start that GC and GWS have received will wipe-out any chance for the middle tier (which will be us) clubs for a decade… Half of the best talent in the country will be split between two clubs plus millions more in the cap to keep them, it's going to get really, really ugly and I don't think anyone will care how many home games the pies get then…

The draft is in place to even up the comp
The draw is designed to make money which in turn cancels out some of the benefits of the draft
The salary cap & draft concessions for GC & GWS will ensure that no-one else stands a chance for a long time[/code]

[dragit]

History says that clubs that receive an edge, or make the most of an edge have a much bigger chance to win the flag.

I reckon 'most' of the top sides of the past decade have had an extra advantage including us…
Geelong - the impact of the flawed Father-Son is underestimated, and the legacy continues still
Collingwood - Football department spend/draw huge advantage, which is self-perpetuating, a better draw every year gives you more exposure, more fans, more money
US - Priority picks, given we are very lopsided in talent, take out 1 or 2 stars and we wouldn't be anywhere near it…
Brisbane/Sydney - Salary Cap - Massive
Hawks - Priorities gave them Buddy and Roughead - 170 goals = flag
WCE - who knows why they had such good stamina?
Not sure about Port and the Dogs… well done if they didn't get a leg-up…
Now Carlton are packing loads of top 10 picks and look dangerous, Melbourne, GC and GWS next

As we know, they are very hard to win as it is, but when the AFL is skewing salary caps to ensure interstate teams are competetive and giving great draws to the biggest clubs it becomes nearly impossible.

We have adjusted the flawed father-son rules and priority pick systems as they were flawed, we don't however seemed to have learnt from the mistakes of massive salary cap differences and marquee fixturing. The AFL is addicted to cash like crack & nothing will get in their way…
Make no mistake, the AFL will ENSURE that the 2 new clubs will win flags, soon. The only start-up yet to is freo… I really believe that the head-start that GC and GWS have received will wipe-out any chance for the middle tier (which will be us) clubs for a decade… Half of the best talent in the country will be split between two clubs plus millions more in the cap to keep them, it's going to get really, really ugly and I don't think anyone will care how many home games the pies get then…

The draft is in place to even up the comp
The draw is designed to make money which in turn cancels out some of the benefits of the draft
The salary cap & draft concessions for GC & GWS will ensure that no-one else stands a chance for a long time

[SainterSoul]

But hey dont the facts in the way when trying to discuss this as you know 90% of people on here will just believe anything you say.
.

It astounds me. Seems like a lot of people are wearing tin foil hats. We need to rise above this sooky la la loser mentality, and just focus on improving ourselves.

Think back to 2009, even if we'd had 10 games interstate, we probably would have won all those. It really makes little difference.

[plugger66]

History says that clubs that receive an edge, or make the most of an edge have a much bigger chance to win the flag.

I reckon 'most' of the top sides of the past decade have had an extra advantage including us…
Geelong - the impact of the flawed Father-Son is underestimated, and the legacy continues still
Collingwood - Football department spend/draw huge advantage, which is self-perpetuating, a better draw every year gives you more exposure, more fans, more money
US - Priority picks, given we are very lopsided in talent, take out 1 or 2 stars and we wouldn't be anywhere near it…
Brisbane/Sydney - Salary Cap - Massive
Hawks - Priorities gave them Buddy and Roughead - 170 goals = flag
WCE - who knows why they had such good stamina?
Not sure about Port and the Dogs… well done if they didn't get a leg-up…
Now Carlton are packing loads of top 10 picks and look dangerous, Melbourne, GC and GWS next

As we know, they are very hard to win as it is, but when the AFL is skewing salary caps to ensure interstate teams are competetive and giving great draws to the biggest clubs it becomes nearly impossible.

We have adjusted the flawed father-son rules and priority pick systems as they were flawed, we don't however seemed to have learnt from the mistakes of massive salary cap differences and marquee fixturing. The AFL is addicted to cash like crack & nothing will get in their way…
Make no mistake, the AFL will ENSURE that the 2 new clubs will win flags, soon. The only start-up yet to is freo… I really believe that the head-start that GC and GWS have received will wipe-out any chance for the middle tier (which will be us) clubs for a decade… Half of the best talent in the country will be split between two clubs plus millions more in the cap to keep them, it's going to get really, really ugly and I don't think anyone will care how many home games the pies get then…

The draft is in place to even up the comp
The draw is designed to make money which in turn cancels out some of the benefits of the draft
The salary cap & draft concessions for GC & GWS will ensure that no-one else stands a chance for a long time

Yep and what about the clubs who havent one the flag either. They have had priorty picks, salary cap concessions and so on. Everyone gets it so it cancels each other out and eventually the best side for the year usually wins the flag. I suppose there are a few options for people because all the things you said will continue to happen under AD and then the next in charge and the next after that. You con continue to follow the game and just enjoy, you can follow the game and whinge about uneveness but nothing will change or you can quit following the game. Luckily for the AFL most have chosen to follow the game but it also seems to whinge about it as well even though nothing will change.

[dragit]

Yep and what about the clubs who havent one the flag either. They have had priorty picks, salary cap concessions and so on. Everyone gets it so it cancels each other out and eventually the best side for the year usually wins the flag. I suppose there are a few options for people because all the things you said will continue to happen under AD and then the next in charge and the next after that. You con continue to follow the game and just enjoy, you can follow the game and whinge about uneveness but nothing will change or you can quit following the game. Luckily for the AFL most have chosen to follow the game but it also seems to whinge about it as well even though nothing will change.

Agree with some of this… the next CEO will be performance based, nothing will change, I will probably continue to whinge, you will continue to read and reply…

Will you enjoy watching 2 new clubs share 5-6 flags in a row?

I can appreciate other teams with great skills and the best young talent in the country, I enjoy the game period, but I wasn't around for our only flag 50 years ago, I would really enjoy seeing my/your team win one…

So executive desicions that impede this from happening are disappointing and I will probably continue to whinge about it, unlike yourself who just takes it on the chin - like a real man.

[plugger66]

Yep and what about the clubs who havent one the flag either. They have had priorty picks, salary cap concessions and so on. Everyone gets it so it cancels each other out and eventually the best side for the year usually wins the flag. I suppose there are a few options for people because all the things you said will continue to happen under AD and then the next in charge and the next after that. You con continue to follow the game and just enjoy, you can follow the game and whinge about uneveness but nothing will change or you can quit following the game. Luckily for the AFL most have chosen to follow the game but it also seems to whinge about it as well even though nothing will change.

Agree with some of this… the next CEO will be performance based, nothing will change, I will probably continue to whinge, you will continue to read and reply…

Will you enjoy watching 2 new clubs share 5-6 flags in a row?

I can appreciate other teams with great skills and the best young talent in the country, I enjoy the game period, but I wasn't around for our only flag 50 years ago, I would really enjoy seeing my/your team win one…

So executive desicions that impede this from happening are disappointing and I will probably continue to whinge about it, unlike yourself who just takes it on the chin - like a real man.

Until 2 sides win 5 or 6 in a row i will continue to enjoy the game. Probably still will after that as well. It is not as if we used to winning flags but I still love the game. To be honest Id rather GWS win it than a Victorian side. I dont care about the interstate sides but get mighty jealous of the Vic sides especially if Melbourne, Tigers or WB won it before us.

And this is nothing about me being a real man. For a start I am a girl.

[dragit]

I dont care about the interstate sides but get mighty jealous of the Vic sides especially if Melbourne, Tigers or WB won it before us.

And this is nothing about me being a real man. For a start I am a girl.

I wouldn't begrudge any of those 3 a flag, anyone who endures 30 years + of mediocrity deserves some success, agree though it is easier to shrug off any interstate side winning - when you don't know any supporters it doesn't really matter…
I wish I could just 'enjoy' the game a little more, unfortunately though my emotions are easily swayed by a bunch of blokes kicking a ball around - it doesn't make sense really… I still get nervous before a game, even if just at home woatching it on tellie, I'm still gutted when we miss out 2 flags by inches, I can't just ignore the fact that there will be 2 new teams that the AFL will be determined to win flags…
Take emotion out of it and we should have merged with the Dogs, there should probably only be 8 clubs in Victoria…
I admire your ability to press on and enjoy footy regardless of success or inequality, like some kind of Zen-master footy fan,
I'm not baiting you here - do you get upset when we lose? the GF's?
I wish it didn't matter, but it does.

[plugger66]

I dont care about the interstate sides but get mighty jealous of the Vic sides especially if Melbourne, Tigers or WB won it before us.

And this is nothing about me being a real man. For a start I am a girl.

I wouldn't begrudge any of those 3 a flag, anyone who endures 30 years + of mediocrity deserves some success, agree though it is easier to shrug off any interstate side winning - when you don't know any supporters it doesn't really matter…
I wish I could just 'enjoy' the game a little more, unfortunately though my emotions are easily swayed by a bunch of blokes kicking a ball around - it doesn't make sense really… I still get nervous before a game, even if just at home woatching it on tellie, I'm still gutted when we miss out 2 flags by inches, I can't just ignore the fact that there will be 2 new teams that the AFL will be determined to win flags…
Take emotion out of it and we should have merged with the Dogs, there should probably only be 8 clubs in Victoria…
I admire your ability to press on and enjoy footy regardless of success or inequality, like some kind of Zen-master footy fan,
I'm not baiting you here - do you get upset when we lose? the GF's?
I wish it didn't matter, but it does.

I went with my Dad in 97 and even though I was 36 years old i started crying. My old man was that embarrassed he decided to leave. In 2009 I was with my family and we all cried together except my then 14 year old daughter who probably thought who are these wankers. Last year in the drawn GF I was with mates and we had a count down clock from the radio. I was over it in the last minute and to be honest I just wanted a result. A loss wouldnt have worried me in the last minute. In the second GF went with the same people and in the same seats. Left to go to a Bar inside the MCC member half way through the third. Couldnt handle it anymore. Was just pissed off.

After those 2 GF's a loss doesnt effect me like it used to so I can understand why the players are finding it hard to get up.

[dragit]

I went with my Dad in 97 and even though I was 36 years old i started crying. My old man was that embarrassed he decided to leave. In 2009 I was with my family and we all cried together except my then 14 year old daughter who probably thought who are these wankers. Last year in the drawn GF I was with mates and we had a count down clock from the radio. I was over it in the last minute and to be honest I just wanted a result. A loss wouldnt have worried me in the last minute. In the second GF went with the same people and in the same seats. Left to go to a Bar inside the MCC member half way through the third. Couldnt handle it anymore. Was just pissed off.

After those 2 GF's a loss doesnt effect me like it used to so I can understand why the players are finding it hard to get up.

There you go, you do care
The GF experiences sound very familiar, I have no recollection of the 97 game - completly gone & I actually left at 3qtr time in the replay last year… could not handle any more.
There's very little love for finishing 2nd in AFL, more than any sport I reckon… Making consecutive GF's should be seen as a great achievement but no-one could give a s***.
Lets just enjoy the Bye this week, no heart-strings attached.
Tottally makes sense that the players can hardly muster a gallop this year, considering how even the 'fans' are feeling…

[desertsaint]

Another way of looking at it is that since 2000 the only melbourne clubs that have won the flag have either played almost all their games, including all finals, at their home ground; or has beaten an opponent who have played most of their games and all of their finals, away from their home ground.

you can do what you like with stats.
fact is - playing a large majority of games at home is a big advantage.

[SainterSoul]

So, Collingwood plays at the MCG, and it is their home. So what? We can move from Etihad if we wanted to (down the track).

[totallyfrank]

But 2 of Brisbane's Premierships were against a side that had the advantage of only having to travel 4 times for the year? Does that cancel each other out?

Btw, I noticed you had nothing to say about Collingwood's recent record. I assume it's a little harder to twist those facts to suit your argument?

Why are you interested in Collingwood's recent record - seeing as that you're a Saint supporter 'n all

I'm interested in footy discussion. I delved into some stats which are readily available to anyone to help form a balanced view. I'm not sure how being 'a Saint supporter 'n all' should matter?

[Grantaire]

But 2 of Brisbane's Premierships were against a side that had the advantage of only having to travel 4 times for the year? Does that cancel each other out?

Btw, I noticed you had nothing to say about Collingwood's recent record. I assume it's a little harder to twist those facts to suit your argument?

Why are you interested in Collingwood's recent record - seeing as that you're a Saint supporter 'n all

I'm interested in footy discussion. I delved into some stats which are readily available to anyone to help form a balanced view. I'm not sure how being 'a Saint supporter 'n all' should matter?

Don't take it personally, Frank. This lot are pretty paranoid about Pies fans signing up. As far as I know, I'm the only pies fan that's signed up in the last week or so. Tess is obviously pies too, but she's been on here forever. Sorry, should I have said 'filth fan'?

[Leo.J]

But 2 of Brisbane's Premierships were against a side that had the advantage of only having to travel 4 times for the year? Does that cancel each other out?

Btw, I noticed you had nothing to say about Collingwood's recent record. I assume it's a little harder to twist those facts to suit your argument?

Why are you interested in Collingwood's recent record - seeing as that you're a Saint supporter 'n all

I'm interested in footy discussion. I delved into some stats which are readily available to anyone to help form a balanced view. I'm not sure how being 'a Saint supporter 'n all' should matter?

Don't take it personally, Frank. This lot are pretty paranoid about Pies fans signing up. As far as I know, I'm the only pies fan that's signed up in the last week or so. Tess is obviously pies too, but she's been on here forever. Sorry, should I have said 'filth fan'?

I don't understand the need to go on other teams forums.

I can just understand a quick look, but to actually engage and post???

Get a life.

[totallyfrank]

But 2 of Brisbane's Premierships were against a side that had the advantage of only having to travel 4 times for the year? Does that cancel each other out?

Btw, I noticed you had nothing to say about Collingwood's recent record. I assume it's a little harder to twist those facts to suit your argument?

Why are you interested in Collingwood's recent record - seeing as that you're a Saint supporter 'n all

I'm interested in footy discussion. I delved into some stats which are readily available to anyone to help form a balanced view. I'm not sure how being 'a Saint supporter 'n all' should matter?

Don't take it personally, Frank. This lot are pretty paranoid about Pies fans signing up. As far as I know, I'm the only pies fan that's signed up in the last week or so. Tess is obviously pies too, but she's been on here forever. Sorry, should I have said 'filth fan'?

Nah, it's all good mate, I understand we can all be very protective and parochial. I'm just your mild mannered type who tries not to get too caught up in the tribalism of it all.

[Leo.J]

But 2 of Brisbane's Premierships were against a side that had the advantage of only having to travel 4 times for the year? Does that cancel each other out?

Btw, I noticed you had nothing to say about Collingwood's recent record. I assume it's a little harder to twist those facts to suit your argument?

Why are you interested in Collingwood's recent record - seeing as that you're a Saint supporter 'n all

I'm interested in footy discussion. I delved into some stats which are readily available to anyone to help form a balanced view. I'm not sure how being 'a Saint supporter 'n all' should matter?

Don't take it personally, Frank. This lot are pretty paranoid about Pies fans signing up. As far as I know, I'm the only pies fan that's signed up in the last week or so. Tess is obviously pies too, but she's been on here forever. Sorry, should I have said 'filth fan'?

Nah, it's all good mate, I understand we can all be very protective and parochial. I'm just your mild mannered type who tries not to get too caught up in the tribalism of it all.

I'm pretty one eyed Saints, but I reckon you, Plugger and most Collingwood fans would agree with your stats.

And I say most Filth fans because I know Collingwood fans who agree that the Filth get a big helping hand.

[Mr Magic]

But 2 of Brisbane's Premierships were against a side that had the advantage of only having to travel 4 times for the year? Does that cancel each other out?

Btw, I noticed you had nothing to say about Collingwood's recent record. I assume it's a little harder to twist those facts to suit your argument?

Why are you interested in Collingwood's recent record - seeing as that you're a Saint supporter 'n all

I'm interested in footy discussion. I delved into some stats which are readily available to anyone to help form a balanced view. I'm not sure how being 'a Saint supporter 'n all' should matter?

Don't take it personally, Frank. This lot are pretty paranoid about Pies fans signing up. As far as I know, I'm the only pies fan that's signed up in the last week or so. Tess is obviously pies too, but she's been on here forever. Sorry, should I have said 'filth fan'?

Or it might have something to do with a group of 'filth fans' who last year decided to join saintsational and cause mayhem on here.
Then went back to Nick's and boasted about the mayhem they had caused on saintsational.

You'll find that there are quite a number of opposition fans who have been welcomed for their input.

We just don't appreciate those that join up with the sole intent of causing trouble - unfortunately for you lately most of those have been your 'brethren'.

[clarky449]

Well i actually thought things couldnt get sadder. Posters from another club's forum signing up to troll. HAHAHA guys get out, smell the fresh air, get a gf.

[Grantaire]

Sorry, double post.

[Grantaire]

But 2 of Brisbane's Premierships were against a side that had the advantage of only having to travel 4 times for the year? Does that cancel each other out?

Btw, I noticed you had nothing to say about Collingwood's recent record. I assume it's a little harder to twist those facts to suit your argument?

Why are you interested in Collingwood's recent record - seeing as that you're a Saint supporter 'n all

I'm interested in footy discussion. I delved into some stats which are readily available to anyone to help form a balanced view. I'm not sure how being 'a Saint supporter 'n all' should matter?

Don't take it personally, Frank. This lot are pretty paranoid about Pies fans signing up. As far as I know, I'm the only pies fan that's signed up in the last week or so. Tess is obviously pies too, but she's been on here forever. Sorry, should I have said 'filth fan'?

Or it might have something to do with a group of 'filth fans' who last year decided to join saintsational and cause mayhem on here.
Then went back to Nick's and boasted about the mayhem they had caused on saintsational.

You'll find that there are quite a number of opposition fans who have been welcomed for their input.

We just don't appreciate those that join up with the sole intent of causing trouble - unfortunately for you lately most of those have been your 'brethren'.

Take it easy MM, I don't post at Nick's (though I am registered there), just at EBW- as Enjolras (can you spot the theme?). FWIW I've read this board for a while, and there are a good few posters that I enjoy reading and wouldn't mind in engaging in footy talk. Not meaning to troll at all.

Admittedly, there are also a fair proportion of Nick's style posters here that I do have a good laugh at, but I'll try to keep that to myself.

[saint tash]

Well i actually thought things couldnt get sadder. Posters from another club's forum signing up to troll. HAHAHA guys get out, smell the fresh air, get a gf.

Get a gf??? Girlfriend or Grand Final clarky???

[Grantaire]

Well i actually thought things couldnt get sadder. Posters from another club's forum signing up to troll. HAHAHA guys get out, smell the fresh air, get a gf.

Get a gf??? Girlfriend or Grand Final clarky???