Lyon Promises Exciting Footy

[joffaboy]

Thinline, you are playing the RF game, he will never answer a direct question.

He like to pretend he has inside knowledge, a director told me this....apparently I'm told some assistant coaches thought......

Then when asked directly he will go for the incedulous

Oh my stars... or the rhetorical

Are you for real????

Really mate he is playing you like an old fiddle.

[SainterK]

What we were what...second highest scoring 09?.

Fourth, I thought, but we dropped to eighth in 2010 and would have been further back but for a late season flurry.

Every other team in the eight scored more heavily.

They all leaked more, too, of course.

As you say, it's about getting the balance right.

http://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/ft_t ... e=TT&sby=4

2009 we were third going by total goals on this site, Carlton closely following?

[Teflon]

Hopefully they will take the game on a bit more...

The reasoned sucess over the past couple of years have been nice but when you hear your (non Saints supporting) mates say - they hate St Kilda because of the game style they play.

You have to wonder what damage RL's game style has caused in attracting new members to our club !

AND yes I couldn't have given 'two flying continentals' if we had of won both years....but?

I too have heard this from mates...then I stop and think......oh yeah these mates supportg sides we've been pumping since 2004.....Id hate us to. Then I say....keep on hating us flogs I could care less.

Even had a Bulldog twit tellme recently that Lyon had to go......I just laughed and said "what do you do with a clown that cant get you past a Prelim?".......complete fwit.

Point is we are successful to a point.......aside from GF combatants..14 others sides can go shag themself.

BTW - I to dont buy Dodges made up ascertion that Lyon has told Bakes/Blake "even if the option to go fwd is a monty....dont YOU kick it fwd..."......doesnt work like that.

Roger suggests the way to fix this is to change the game plan. I prefer Lyons approach - fix the skill level, which along with speed are the 2 things he has said he wants in the side.

Its true IMO we do have an imbalance of poor players by foot - have thought this for some time...again, Lyon tried to address this last year via Lovett and Smith IMO....it didnt pay off.....but it tells me the guy has the skills to pinpoint and set about correcting our deficiencies.

I genuinley do believe that IF we are to improve this year.....guys like McQualter/Peake MUST struggle to get a game due to Steven/Armo/Simpkin/Smith etc

[Thinline]

Thinline, you are playing the RF game, he will never answer a direct question.

He like to pretend he has inside knowledge, a director told me this....apparently I'm told some assistant coaches thought......

Then when asked directly he will go for the incedulous

Oh my stars... or the rhetorical

Are you for real????

Really mate he is playing you like an old fiddle.

Look I'm disappointed for perpetuating his rubbish but he's a complete muppet.

Oh may stars indeed.

[rodgerfox]

Fact is people who have inside knowledge have the good sense to be discreet. Those who aren't are making it up 9.9/10.

Not sure where this supposed 'inside knowledge' thing comes from?


Fact is I worked with a board member, and he had very loose lips. Loved to brag, and loved to show how important he was by sharing information with people.

I haven't worked with him for a while now, and haven't spoken to him for some time.

Frankly, he was a waanker who even bragged about his importance by sharing players' personal lives with people.


On the topic of roles and responsibilities within the team, I'm amazed by what I'm reading here. Reading from people who follow footy closely.
Makes me wonder what the hell people do when they attend the footy each week - and makes me seriously wonder what you blokes did when you were playing!

A lot of footy clubs, nearly all, have roles within the team. Every player has a specific role.
These roles must be strictly adhered to. Some players have roles with autonomy, others have no autonomy whatsoever.
The decision to 'mark or spoil' at a particular contest is not their decision to make - it's already been made for them.
The decision to kick long or stop and kick backwards or sideways isn't their decision. It's already been made for them.

The Saints have taken the 'roles' thing to this extent. According to an ex-assistant the other week over a beer or two, he told me that this is a sticking point for the football department.
Lyon has taken it further than most other coaches - and won't budge. It was a good thing early on, but became an issue as other clubs worked out what was happening, and started to defend far too easily against us.

Not sure if I'd call that 'inside information'?? But I guess if you're a loser who sits on the couch all day then dons the scarf and beanie and screams at teenagers running around a park on a Saturday arvo, I suppose it may be considered 'inside information'.

To me, it's as plain as the nose on your face what is happening. To have it spoken about by someone who was in charge of enforcing it, wasn't a surprise. Hardly ground breaking news I'd have thought.


I don't think the game plan needs to be changed, I think it needs to have some flexibility built into it.
As I said, it needed it last year and it cost us. We couldn't score all year due to our predictability.
Our key players were targetted, and the ball was in the hands of poorly skilled recruits and guys who aren't allowed to attack far too many times throughout the year - and the finals.

The stucture is a problem too. The lack of flexibility in the structure is an issue too.
Kosi in the role of 'tall forward' failed horribly. Lyon refused to concede that this structure wasn't working.
Part of the issue was that our run and attack from defence was being stifled as our opponents knew who to stop, and who to concede the ball to. So the nut just wasn't getting up forward fast enough.


So, in the context of this thread and topic, in order to be better at attacking we need to build some autonomy into the roles of some players, and some flexibility into the structure. Gilber going forward in the GF would have made Lyon wet his pants and go into an Excessive Compulsive freakout! But it worked. He should have listened to his assistants and started the following week the same way, but he refused to veer away from 'his' structure.

He needs to acknowledge that he's been worked out. He needs to leveridge off the good work that he's done, and allow some flexibility.

[plugger66]

How do you know his assistants wanted Gibert forward and he didnt. It could be the other way around. You just made that bit up.

[rodgerfox]

How do you know his assistants wanted Gibert forward and he didnt. It could be the other way around. You just made that bit up.

I'm basing that part on what I was told by an ex-assistant.

[samoht]

I don't think Lyon has done any wrong... he had the right game plan.

He realised the strength of our team - is the backline - and organised the team around it.

Our recruiters on the other hand cannot escape blame - for not targeting young quick skillful running players and medium sized forwards years ago.
They finally (too late) became desperate and went after Peake and Lovett.

Every year that passed (the last 10 years) we increasingly needed quick skillful players and medium forwards - but we didn't recruit to our needs.

We have a good backline but it too needed to be broken up and weakened to bolster a very average forward line (lacking medium forwards) in this year's finals.

Hayes and Goddard and our backline can't keep carrying the team - Montagna only had 13 possessions in GF2 - our midfield does not run deep... we have too many small forwards(who get belted in the finals)and not one medium sized forward.

In many ways - we overachieved under Lyon... given our teams weaknesses which get exposed every time we play lowly Essendon.

Let's hope our backline together with Hayes and Goddard can keep carrying us over the line.

[DWOODROW]

How do you know his assistants wanted Gibert forward and he didnt. It could be the other way around. You just made that bit up.

I'm basing that part on what I was told by an ex-assistant.

Well I think there is some relevance to your arguement and find myself agreeing with your comments. Does that make me a target for other posters now?????

[rodgerfox]

I don't think Lyon has done any wrong... he had the right game plan.

He realised the strength of our team - is the backline - and organised the team around it.

Our recruiters on the other hand cannot escape blame - for not targeting young quick skillful running players and medium sized forwards years ago.
They finally (too late) became desperate and went after Peake and Lovett.

Every year that passed (the last 10 years) we increasingly needed quick skillful players and medium forwards - but we didn't recruit to our needs.

We have a good backline but it too needed to be broken up and weakened to bolster a very average forward line (lacking medium forwards) in this year's finals.

Hayes and Goddard and our backline can't keep carrying the team - Montagna only had 13 possessions in GF2 - our midfield does not run deep... we have too many small forwards(who get belted in the finals)and not one medium sized forward.

In many ways - we overachieved under Lyon... given our teams weaknesses which get exposed every time we play lowly Essendon.

Let's hope our backline together with Hayes and Goddard can keep carrying us over the line.

Every single 'issue' you've mentioned above, has to be the responsibility of the coach.

So I'm not sure you can highlight all these issues, then in the same breath suggest we overachieved under him??

[rodgerfox]

How do you know his assistants wanted Gibert forward and he didnt. It could be the other way around. You just made that bit up.

I'm basing that part on what I was told by an ex-assistant.

Well I think there is some relevance to your arguement and find myself agreeing with your comments. Does that make me a target for other posters now?????

You'll be right.

I merely play a role in this forum.

I give the cowards the first opportunity they've had since high school to be part of a lynch mob and be bullies.

What I actually write is irrelevant.


There are some though who will get under their doonas with makeup on and cry hysterically to leave Ross alone, if you even dare suggest he isn't a god of some sort.
So you may cop some heat from them.

[Dr Spaceman]

How do you know his assistants wanted Gibert forward and he didnt. It could be the other way around. You just made that bit up.

I'm basing that part on what I was told by an ex-assistant.

Well I think there is some relevance to your arguement and find myself agreeing with your comments. Does that make me a target for other posters now?????

You'll be right.

I merely play a role in this forum.

I give the cowards the first opportunity they've had since high school to be part of a lynch mob and be bullies.

What I actually write is irrelevant.


There are some though who will get under their doonas with makeup on and cry hysterically to leave Ross alone, if you even dare suggest he isn't a god of some sort.
So you may cop some heat from them.

Nice spin there RF.

Just because some don’t share your ridicule of the coach doesn’t mean they regard him as a deity.

There is in fact a very large range of evaluations that fall between a God and the incompetent Premiership saboteur you paint him out to be.

[Thinline]

How do you know his assistants wanted Gibert forward and he didnt. It could be the other way around. You just made that bit up.

I'm basing that part on what I was told by an ex-assistant.

Well I think there is some relevance to your arguement and find myself agreeing with your comments. Does that make me a target for other posters now?????

You'll be right.

I merely play a role in this forum.

I give the cowards the first opportunity they've had since high school to be part of a lynch mob and be bullies.

What I actually write is irrelevant.


There are some though who will get under their doonas with makeup on and cry hysterically to leave Ross alone, if you even dare suggest he isn't a god of some sort.
So you may cop some heat from them.

Nice spin there RF.

Just because some don’t share your ridicule of the coach doesn’t mean they regard him as a deity.

There is in fact a very large range of evaluations that fall between a God and the incompetent Premiership saboteur you paint him out to be.

You mean the world is black, white AND grey!???

Oh my stars.

[samoht]

I don't think Lyon has done any wrong... he had the right game plan.

He realised the strength of our team - is the backline - and organised the team around it.

Our recruiters on the other hand cannot escape blame - for not targeting young quick skillful running players and medium sized forwards years ago.
They finally (too late) became desperate and went after Peake and Lovett.

Every year that passed (the last 10 years) we increasingly needed quick skillful players and medium forwards - but we didn't recruit to our needs.

We have a good backline but it too needed to be broken up and weakened to bolster a very average forward line (lacking medium forwards) in this year's finals.

Hayes and Goddard and our backline can't keep carrying the team - Montagna only had 13 possessions in GF2 - our midfield does not run deep... we have too many small forwards(who get belted in the finals)and not one medium sized forward.

In many ways - we overachieved under Lyon... given our teams weaknesses which get exposed every time we play lowly Essendon.

Let's hope our backline together with Hayes and Goddard can keep carrying us over the line.

Every single 'issue' you've mentioned above, has to be the responsibility of the coach.

So I'm not sure you can highlight all these issues, then in the same breath suggest we overachieved under him??

How is Lyon responsible for 10 years of recruiting ?
Recruiting Lovett was a desperate last ditch attempt to right some of the long standing recruiting wrongs.
The only thing I blame Lyon for is playing too many smalls in the finals - but we lack quick players and medium forwards - so he's probably forced into choosing the smalls anyway.

[InkerSaint]

(I'll leave the money on the fridge matrix)

[Thinline]

Burps farts shrugs turns away...

[SainterK]

That wasn't the first time Gilbert had gone forward...

[MCG-Unit]

How do you know his assistants wanted Gibert forward and he didnt. It could be the other way around. You just made that bit up.

I'm basing that part on what I was told by an ex-assistant.

Well I think there is some relevance to your arguement and find myself agreeing with your comments. Does that make me a target for other posters now?????

I might be a target as well - certain posters can't debate/disagree without abuse - who knows whether they get warned - it's the same handful of posters on these boards

[samoht]

re: Gilbert.

Arguably we needed Gilbert back in defense more than we needed him forward in GF2... given the final margin and the easy goals Collingwood ended up kicking.

Unfortunately we needed to weaken our main strength - the backline - by taking good players from there, to make up for the lack of medium/mobile forwards we should have recruited years ago.

[Saints43]

who knows whether they get warned

Who knows how it all works? Some (non-mod, non-admin) posters even seem to know if other posters get banned, for instance. I've never seen that info published on here...

[Thinline]

How do you know his assistants wanted Gibert forward and he didnt. It could be the other way around. You just made that bit up.

I'm basing that part on what I was told by an ex-assistant.

Well I think there is some relevance to your arguement and find myself agreeing with your comments. Does that make me a target for other posters now?????

I might be a target as well - certain posters can't debate/disagree without abuse - who knows whether they get warned - it's the same handful of posters on these boards

Sorry. Sometimes a decent ticking off is more than warranted. Some on here are simply incapable of discussion without brow-beating or shaping arguments to serve an often ill-informed and mindless agenda and not only is that rude it's also grating, annoying, wasteful, dull and akin to the sort of s*** I thought I left behind when I made the jump to big school.

Persoanlly I think people need to draw a distinction between agreeing and disagreeing (which is what this forum is for) and disrespectful baiting (which it is not)...

[matrix]

(no money required Inker)

[MCG-Unit]

who knows whether they get warned

Who knows how it all works? Some (non-mod, non-admin) posters even seem to know if other posters get banned, for instance. I've never seen that info published on here...

Well there you go, guess you need to be in the clique

Doubt they have the resources for a Yellow Card warning system though

[MCG-Unit]

How do you know his assistants wanted Gibert forward and he didnt. It could be the other way around. You just made that bit up.

I'm basing that part on what I was told by an ex-assistant.

Well I think there is some relevance to your arguement and find myself agreeing with your comments. Does that make me a target for other posters now?????

I might be a target as well - certain posters can't debate/disagree without abuse - who knows whether they get warned - it's the same handful of posters on these boards

Sorry. Sometimes a decent ticking off is more than warranted.........

.........and disrespectful baiting (which it is not on)...

Can't argue with any of that

[bigcarl]

What we were what...second highest scoring 09?.

Fourth, I thought, but we dropped to eighth in 2010 and would have been further back but for a late season flurry.

Every other team in the eight scored more heavily.

They all leaked more, too, of course.

As you say, it's about getting the balance right.

http://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/ft_t ... e=TT&sby=4

2009 we were third going by total goals on this site, Carlton closely following?

I was going on the home and away season ladder, in which we were fourth in Points For behind the Bulldogs, Geelong and Carlton.

We overtook Carlton during the finals as you would expect considering we played more matches than them.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2009_AFL_season