why bag Lyon's recruiting /drafting???

[rodgerfox]

and also a TEAM of quality fitness and conditioning staff, which we finally now have in place.

Working a treat isn't it?

dodgy you are saintsational's mosquito

You are Saintsational's scrotum.


Actually, scrotum's have more charm.

[bobmurray]

So ,do we have an outcome for this mass debate that went on for six pages...

[barks4eva]

and also a TEAM of quality fitness and conditioning staff, which we finally now have in place.

Working a treat isn't it?

dodgy you are saintsational's mosquito

You are Saintsational's scrotum.

A blonde one.

Where would almost half the world's population be without a scrotum, scrotum's are very important, love your scrotum and treat it with respect


as for mosquito's, tell one good thing they are good for and I don't think you can factor in aquaduct's

and btw, fyi, I do not have a blonde one

[Winmar7Fan]

Thomas is the only reason we dont have a 2nd premiership.

Concur 100%, good to see someone with a clue around this place

If we'd have had a professionally run football department, quality fitness and conditioning staff then the things that tripped us up, might have been avoided.

The fact that the football department was the dictatorship of one man, and one who was a rookie learning the ropes, has sent the football club back 5 1/2 years, completely stuffed the list that he inherited, through poor recruiting, abysmal player development and almost no rookies whatsoever, except for Milne and the 'project player" Murray.

Our list needs a rebuild because all the talk about building a decade of success was just that talk, the things that were actioned, were done for the here and now, the gamble backfired and Lyon has to clean up the mess that was left behind.


If anything Thomas cost this club a premiership, when we had the list primed and ready and Gomer Pyle, Forrest Gump, Mr Bean, Abbott and Costello, Laurel and Hardy, The Two Ronnies, The Three Stooges and Monty Python's Flying Circus could have coached the list back then to three finals series running, what we needed was a professionally run football department, not the dominion of one man and also a TEAM of quality fitness and conditioning staff, which we finally now have in place.

The list will need to be rebuilt, we already have the nucleus, but we need some more quality kids developed and coming through.

Such soothing reading.Thanks for saving my sanity

[rodgerfox]

Such soothing reading.Thanks for saving my sanity

Something tells me it's a bit late for that.

[Teflon]

Each mark not confidently moving the ball on quickly holding it up looking for someone to give it off to until everyone flooded back into our forward line .

Huh?

So what have the past 18 months brought us?

Fast attacking football?

Playing against lwr sides with a good structure that ran us around and made us look stupid

Huh?

We used to smash lower teams.

We now make them look like potential grand finalists.

Ross Lyon is a far better coach

Of course he his . . . because . . . um . . .

Yeh put in now from back then Heath Black, Aussie Jones, Aaron Hamill, Stephen Powell,Luke Penny,and a five year younger Justin Peckett , Andrew Thompson, Fraser Gherig,Max Hudgeton and Robert Harvey and also a fresh Luke Ball not stuffed with injuries and we'll see if theres any difference . Your really happy with what we achieved back then ? We should have been smashing almost EVERY team. I can remember HEAPS of times losing and being pushed by sides that werent rated anywhere near our Superstar Glamour team that promised the world and now we expect Ross lyon to come in and take the next step. I know we dont like to face it but its all over and Ross Lyon is now rebiulding weve lost half of the best talent we had and replaced then with a bunch of snotty nosed kids and some mediocre rejects. As for what hes done in just over 12 months take a look back at where we were with GT after that long . They were also saying the same about Alister Clarkson too.

Your dealing with a few imbeciles mate but its a quality post you make.

Thomas also AT LEAST had a functional MAGUIRE to add to the list.

It wont change a thing on here though...the attention seeking flogs will still argue one way today and and entirely another tomorrow so they can say "I told you so"

Dodg was calling for a total rebuild 2 yrs ago in his now famous "chicken little sky is falling" post (he virtually had a merging in that one.... )

Keep the faith in Ross it will take some time but I too believe he is a good coach HAS a plan and will turn things over to get the TEAM required to implement it.

[The OtherThommo]

John Worsfold got a couple of years grace with a side that was seemingly close, yet needed changing. Then he played off, then they won a flag. Not 18 months on, with only 5 missing from that premiership side, they gave up after round 5.

They fair dinkum gave up. The richest side in the country, gave up.

John Worsfold is a premiership coach who was given time, won and gave up inside 2 years.

Ross Lyon deserves time. And, what the hell, he hasn't got 17 blokes that have worn a medallion late in month 9.

Let's see where a 4-3 start takes us before we implode.

[Shaggy]

Each mark not confidently moving the ball on quickly holding it up looking for someone to give it off to until everyone flooded back into our forward line .

Huh?

So what have the past 18 months brought us?

Fast attacking football?

Playing against lwr sides with a good structure that ran us around and made us look stupid

Huh?

We used to smash lower teams.

We now make them look like potential grand finalists.

Ross Lyon is a far better coach

Of course he his . . . because . . . um . . .

Yeh put in now from back then Heath Black, Aussie Jones, Aaron Hamill, Stephen Powell,Luke Penny,and a five year younger Justin Peckett , Andrew Thompson, Fraser Gherig,Max Hudgeton and Robert Harvey and also a fresh Luke Ball not stuffed with injuries and we'll see if theres any difference . Your really happy with what we achieved back then ? We should have been smashing almost EVERY team. I can remember HEAPS of times losing and being pushed by sides that werent rated anywhere near our Superstar Glamour team that promised the world and now we expect Ross lyon to come in and take the next step. I know we dont like to face it but its all over and Ross Lyon is now rebiulding weve lost half of the best talent we had and replaced then with a bunch of snotty nosed kids and some mediocre rejects. As for what hes done in just over 12 months take a look back at where we were with GT after that long . They were also saying the same about Alister Clarkson too.

Your dealing with a few imbeciles mate but its a quality post you make.

Thomas also AT LEAST had a functional MAGUIRE to add to the list.

It wont change a thing on here though...the attention seeking flogs will still argue one way today and and entirely another tomorrow so they can say "I told you so"

Dodg was calling for a total rebuild 2 yrs ago in his now famous "chicken little sky is falling" post (he virtually had a merging in that one.... )

Keep the faith in Ross it will take some time but I too believe he is a good coach HAS a plan and will turn things over to get the TEAM required to implement it.

Heath Black – played (IMO) better under GT than Dockers since
Aussie Jones – wanted to leave but still played his best footy under GT
Aaron Hamill – was always good with Carlton with us injuries killed his career and severely destabilized us come finals since he was a key
Stephen Powell – sacked by Melbourne but he was a wonderful servant for us under GT (primarily in a negative role)
Luke Penny - A kid when he joined us and played very good football and the Doggies thought he would be great too but like Sammy injuries killed him and us
Justin Peckett - a “rough diamondâ€

[The OtherThommo]

There ya go. And I always thought you had to have corporate finance before you could manufacture anything - the ol' return on capital line. Being a return it has to come second, no?

As for investment banking only existing because of "real" business - I thought all those resources companies just sampled a few holes, put together a feasibility study (simulation) and then asked some wanky investment bankers for the "bugs" to dig really big holes. Plan + capital = business?

GT would have done better if he'd actually invested, rather than asset strip like so many corporate raiders.

[Shaggy]

There ya go. And I always thought you had to have corporate finance before you could manufacture anything - the ol' return on capital line. Being a return it has to come second, no?

As for investment banking only existing because of "real" business - I thought all those resources companies just sampled a few holes, put together a feasibility study (simulation) and then asked some wanky investment bankers for the "bugs" to dig really big holes. Plan + capital = business?

GT would have done better if he'd actually invested, rather than asset strip like so many corporate raiders.

GT started with a team which had won 2 games and with a club which was nearly bust. To be fair there was not much capital or anything else to asset strip .

GT was given minimal finance assistance compared to the rest of the AFL clubs with the responsibility to take the company/club from bottom to the top with the core group being kids.

And he nearly achieved it as well

Personally I agree that plan + capital = business but invariably loss making without the requisite relationships

[rodgerfox]

Dodg was calling for a total rebuild 2 yrs ago in his now famous "chicken little sky is falling" post (he virtually had a merging in that one.... )

You are a liar Teflon.

An outright liar.


I never called for a rebuild.

What I said, was that by the start of 2009, we will have had a rebuild. And due to changing coaches, it will take that long to learn a new game plan and style. Therefore, we won't be a genuine threat again until 2009/2010. We'd be good enough on core talent to play finals still, but not a genuine threat.

And guess what?

With 15 rounds to go, we haven't learn the game plan yet.

And guess what? With 15 rounds to go, Lyon has added 8 new players into our 22 (over 1/3 of the entire team is new). There will be more before 2009 too. If that's not a rebuild, then what is?

So smartarse, you'll find if you want to bring up old posts, that what I said after the sacking, has almost happened to the letter.


It's funny that the football ignorant like yourself, saw my posts at the time as 'the sky is falling in'. Whereas in reality, to those with a clue it was quite obvious. That was the path the board chose to take. They lied about why, and they were wrong about the consequences, but that was the path the board took.

We weren't going to simply change coaches and take the next step. Sorry that you and your hero Bolt4Eva were sucked in by Butterss, but I guess that happens when you're a moron.

[Boppa]

We needed to hold firm on 2007, as with our list, it was the last year before we needed to mini-rebuild

.

I never called for a rebuild.

Same poster

[rodgerfox]

We needed to hold firm on 2007, as with our list, it was the last year before we needed to mini-rebuild

.

I never called for a rebuild.

Same poster

Thanks for your input dick h**d.


I never 'called' for a rebuild.

I stated that a mini-rebuild was imminent post 2006. I didn't 'call' for it, I stated that it would happen.

And guess what happened smart arse?

Go on, have a guess.....


Fair dinkum. I love it when morons chime in with attempted smart arse pearls of wisdom, only to be left looking like the idiots they are.

[Boppa]

We needed to hold firm on 2007, as with our list, it was the last year before we needed to mini-rebuild

.

I never called for a rebuild.

Same poster

Thanks for your input dick h**d.


I never 'called' for a rebuild.

I stated that a mini-rebuild was imminent post 2006. I didn't 'call' for it, I stated that it would happen.

And guess what happened smart arse?

Go on, have a guess.....


Fair dinkum. I love it when morons chime in with attempted smart arse pearls of wisdom, only to be left looking like the idiots they are.

There is only one person looking like an idiot by constantly contradicting themselves and i'm afraid that is you fool.
You say that you didn't "call" for the mini rebuild but your quote was
We needed to hold firm on 2007, as with our list, it was the last year before we needed to mini rebuild
Sounds like you were calling for it to me goose

[Teflon]

We needed to hold firm on 2007, as with our list, it was the last year before we needed to mini-rebuild

.

I never called for a rebuild.

Same poster

Thanks for your input dick h**d.


I never 'called' for a rebuild.

I stated that a mini-rebuild was imminent post 2006. I didn't 'call' for it, I stated that it would happen.

And guess what happened smart arse?

Go on, have a guess.....


Fair dinkum. I love it when morons chime in with attempted smart arse pearls of wisdom, only to be left looking like the idiots they are.

There is only one person looking like an idiot by constantly contradicting themselves and i'm afraid that is you fool.
You say that you didn't "call" for the mini rebuild but your quote was
We needed to hold firm on 2007, as with our list, it was the last year before we needed to mini rebuild
Sounds like you were calling for it to me goose

Thank you Boppa.

Would the record now please show the half @ssed Dodgerfox for what he is?

A fool of highest, attention seeking tw@t who contradicts himself EVERY post and attempts to portray himself as "insightful"

You look ridiculous Dodg.......take a bex and have a lie down.......

[Teflon]

Each mark not confidently moving the ball on quickly holding it up looking for someone to give it off to until everyone flooded back into our forward line .

Huh?

So what have the past 18 months brought us?

Fast attacking football?

Playing against lwr sides with a good structure that ran us around and made us look stupid

Huh?

We used to smash lower teams.

We now make them look like potential grand finalists.

Ross Lyon is a far better coach

Of course he his . . . because . . . um . . .

Yeh put in now from back then Heath Black, Aussie Jones, Aaron Hamill, Stephen Powell,Luke Penny,and a five year younger Justin Peckett , Andrew Thompson, Fraser Gherig,Max Hudgeton and Robert Harvey and also a fresh Luke Ball not stuffed with injuries and we'll see if theres any difference . Your really happy with what we achieved back then ? We should have been smashing almost EVERY team. I can remember HEAPS of times losing and being pushed by sides that werent rated anywhere near our Superstar Glamour team that promised the world and now we expect Ross lyon to come in and take the next step. I know we dont like to face it but its all over and Ross Lyon is now rebiulding weve lost half of the best talent we had and replaced then with a bunch of snotty nosed kids and some mediocre rejects. As for what hes done in just over 12 months take a look back at where we were with GT after that long . They were also saying the same about Alister Clarkson too.

Your dealing with a few imbeciles mate but its a quality post you make.

Thomas also AT LEAST had a functional MAGUIRE to add to the list.

It wont change a thing on here though...the attention seeking flogs will still argue one way today and and entirely another tomorrow so they can say "I told you so"

Dodg was calling for a total rebuild 2 yrs ago in his now famous "chicken little sky is falling" post (he virtually had a merging in that one.... )

Keep the faith in Ross it will take some time but I too believe he is a good coach HAS a plan and will turn things over to get the TEAM required to implement it.

Heath Black – played (IMO) better under GT than Dockers since
Aussie Jones – wanted to leave but still played his best footy under GT
Aaron Hamill – was always good with Carlton with us injuries killed his career and severely destabilized us come finals since he was a key
Stephen Powell – sacked by Melbourne but he was a wonderful servant for us under GT (primarily in a negative role)
Luke Penny - A kid when he joined us and played very good football and the Doggies thought he would be great too but like Sammy injuries killed him and us
Justin Peckett - a “rough diamondâ€

[rodgerfox]

We needed to hold firm on 2007, as with our list, it was the last year before we needed to mini-rebuild

.

I never called for a rebuild.

Same poster

Thanks for your input dick h**d.


I never 'called' for a rebuild.

I stated that a mini-rebuild was imminent post 2006. I didn't 'call' for it, I stated that it would happen.

And guess what happened smart arse?

Go on, have a guess.....


Fair dinkum. I love it when morons chime in with attempted smart arse pearls of wisdom, only to be left looking like the idiots they are.

There is only one person looking like an idiot by constantly contradicting themselves and i'm afraid that is you fool.
You say that you didn't "call" for the mini rebuild but your quote was
We needed to hold firm on 2007, as with our list, it was the last year before we needed to mini rebuild
Sounds like you were calling for it to me goose

Thanks again for your input.

When was Thomas sacked? End of 2006.

When did I say we would rebuild?

End of 2007.


So you'll find if you bother to do any homework at all before chiming in with smart arse posts, that as the liar Teflon suggested, I did not 'call' for a rebuild when Thomas was sacked at all.

It's a lie.

Make sense now?

[rodgerfox]

Fair dinkum. I love it when morons chime in with attempted smart arse pearls of wisdom, only to be left looking like the idiots they are.

There is only one person looking like an idiot by constantly contradicting themselves and i'm afraid that is you fool.
You say that you didn't "call" for the mini rebuild but your quote was
We needed to hold firm on 2007, as with our list, it was the last year before we needed to mini rebuild
Sounds like you were calling for it to me goose[/quote]


And you do also realise, that there is a massive difference between a rebuild, as Teflon the liar claimed that I 'called' for, and a mini-rebuild (which is what I suggested would happen) don't you?

If you're going to poke your nose in and attempt to be a smart arse, at least try to get it right.

[BAM! (shhhh)]

And you do also realise, that there is a massive difference between a rebuild, as Teflon the liar claimed that I 'called' for, and a mini-rebuild (which is what I suggested would happen) don't you?

If you're going to poke your nose in and attempt to be a smart arse, at least try to get it right.

I think a lot of people throw around the word rebuild assuming they mean the same thing as everyone else when they don't.

B4E is calling for a rebuild where we keep the core of the list... to me a rebuild is specifically when you unload your key players (e.g. Reiwoldt, Dal) for high draft picks to start over, as Hawthorn did. I believe that would be the same thing you're defining as a "mini-rebuild". i.e. turn over anyone who the staff doesn't believe will play a role in the next premiership, like Collingwood did with the Cloke's (we'd delist Blake, Fiora, etc. and play kids in their places whether they were ready or not with a mid-term benefit view).

Have I misinterpreted someone? I don't think anyone's contradicted themselves, but I think you actually want to go the same direction and are getting caught up in an old argument.

[Boppa]

Thank you Boppa.

Would the record now please show the half @ssed Dodgerfox for what he is?

A fool of highest, attention seeking tw@t who contradicts himself EVERY post and attempts to portray himself as "insightful"

You look ridiculous Dodg.......take a bex and have a lie down.......

[rodgerfox]

I think a lot of people throw around the word rebuild assuming they mean the same thing as everyone else when they don't.

B4E is calling for a rebuild where we keep the core of the list... to me a rebuild is specifically when you unload your key players (e.g. Reiwoldt, Dal) for high draft picks to start over, as Hawthorn did. I believe that would be the same thing you're defining as a "mini-rebuild". i.e. turn over anyone who the staff doesn't believe will play a role in the next premiership, like Collingwood did with the Cloke's (we'd delist Blake, Fiora, etc. and play kids in their places whether they were ready or not with a mid-term benefit view).

Have I misinterpreted someone? I don't think anyone's contradicted themselves, but I think you actually want to go the same direction and are getting caught up in an old argument.

I agree.

A rebuild is really where you decide your core is not good enough to win a flag so you start again. You get a bunch of young guys over a 2-3 year drafting period and build them into the nucleus of your team. They come in together, and build a bond together.

A mini-rebuild is where you decide your core is good enough, but the fringe around them isn't to make up a premiership team.

One takes years (4-5), the other takes 1-3.

Contrary to what the liars and morons have said, I never 'called' for a rebuild after the sacking. I simply stated that we would have a natural mini-rebuild post season 2007 (if we didn't win that flag) due to imminent retirements, forced list turnover and sackings - would become a full rebuild.

We would have had a 'mini-rebuild' after the 2007 season. 2007 was our last real 'window' with our list balance (not talent) as it was.

A rebuild suggests our list isn't good enough. That's rubbish. If Lyon thought so, he'd have traded some key players by now. He hasn't. He's only topped up what we've got.

[Teflon]

And you do also realise, that there is a massive difference between a rebuild, as Teflon the liar claimed that I 'called' for, and a mini-rebuild (which is what I suggested would happen) don't you?

If you're going to poke your nose in and attempt to be a smart arse, at least try to get it right.

I think a lot of people throw around the word rebuild assuming they mean the same thing as everyone else when they don't.

B4E is calling for a rebuild where we keep the core of the list... to me a rebuild is specifically when you unload your key players (e.g. Reiwoldt, Dal) for high draft picks to start over, as Hawthorn did. I believe that would be the same thing you're defining as a "mini-rebuild". i.e. turn over anyone who the staff doesn't believe will play a role in the next premiership, like Collingwood did with the Cloke's (we'd delist Blake, Fiora, etc. and play kids in their places whether they were ready or not with a mid-term benefit view).

Have I misinterpreted someone? I don't think anyone's contradicted themselves, but I think you actually want to go the same direction and are getting caught up in an old argument.

Oh if it was that easy to dismiss Dodgs previous drivel..

He didnt in that post merely say rebuild he went on to say we were now clearly heading for decline and that we needed to acknoweldge that. It was quite an astoundingly stupi post (Im glad he made it...saved me some work...) but lets not play semantics on words. He knows what he posted....he'll back up faster than an Italian tank in WW2 right now though....

Fool of the highest.

[rodgerfox]

I think a lot of people throw around the word rebuild assuming they mean the same thing as everyone else when they don't.

B4E is calling for a rebuild where we keep the core of the list... to me a rebuild is specifically when you unload your key players (e.g. Reiwoldt, Dal) for high draft picks to start over, as Hawthorn did. I believe that would be the same thing you're defining as a "mini-rebuild". i.e. turn over anyone who the staff doesn't believe will play a role in the next premiership, like Collingwood did with the Cloke's (we'd delist Blake, Fiora, etc. and play kids in their places whether they were ready or not with a mid-term benefit view).

Have I misinterpreted someone? I don't think anyone's contradicted themselves, but I think you actually want to go the same direction and are getting caught up in an old argument.

I agree.

A rebuild is really where you decide your core is not good enough to win a flag so you start again. You get a bunch of young guys over a 2-3 year drafting period and build them into the nucleus of your team. They come in together, and build a bond together.

A mini-rebuild is where you decide your core is good enough, but the fringe around them isn't to make up a premiership team.

One takes years (4-5), the other takes 1-3.

Contrary to what the liars and morons have said, I never 'called' for a rebuild after the sacking. I simply stated that we would have a natural mini-rebuild post season 2007 (if we didn't win that flag) due to imminent retirements, forced list turnover and sackings - would become a full rebuild.

We would have had a 'mini-rebuild' after the 2007 season. 2007 was our last real 'window' with our list balance (not talent) as it was.

A rebuild suggests our list isn't good enough. That's rubbish. If Lyon thought so, he'd have traded some key players by now. He hasn't. He's only topped up what we've got.

I should add that the term 'rebuild' could also be used to describe a situation where nearly half of a starting 22 is turned over in a 1-2 year period.

Whether they be fringe players, retirees or trades - but more than 8 or 9 new players into a team in a 24 month period would pretty much constitute a rebuild.

[Teflon]

I think a lot of people throw around the word rebuild assuming they mean the same thing as everyone else when they don't.

B4E is calling for a rebuild where we keep the core of the list... to me a rebuild is specifically when you unload your key players (e.g. Reiwoldt, Dal) for high draft picks to start over, as Hawthorn did. I believe that would be the same thing you're defining as a "mini-rebuild". i.e. turn over anyone who the staff doesn't believe will play a role in the next premiership, like Collingwood did with the Cloke's (we'd delist Blake, Fiora, etc. and play kids in their places whether they were ready or not with a mid-term benefit view).

Have I misinterpreted someone? I don't think anyone's contradicted themselves, but I think you actually want to go the same direction and are getting caught up in an old argument.

I agree.

A rebuild is really where you decide your core is not good enough to win a flag so you start again. You get a bunch of young guys over a 2-3 year drafting period and build them into the nucleus of your team. They come in together, and build a bond together.

A mini-rebuild is where you decide your core is good enough, but the fringe around them isn't to make up a premiership team.

One takes years (4-5), the other takes 1-3.

Contrary to what the liars and morons have said, I never 'called' for a rebuild after the sacking. I simply stated that we would have a natural mini-rebuild post season 2007 (if we didn't win that flag) due to imminent retirements, forced list turnover and sackings - would become a full rebuild.

We would have had a 'mini-rebuild' after the 2007 season. 2007 was our last real 'window' with our list balance (not talent) as it was.

A rebuild suggests our list isn't good enough. That's rubbish. If Lyon thought so, he'd have traded some key players by now. He hasn't. He's only topped up what we've got.

I should add that the term 'rebuild' could also be used to describe a situation where nearly half of a starting 22 is turned over in a 1-2 year period.

Whether they be fringe players, retirees or trades - but more than 8 or 9 new players into a team in a 24 month period would pretty much constitute a rebuild.

Dont ever do renovations is my advice. You'll confuse the cr@p out of any builder and Id suggest yourself again.

I can see it now....." i never actually said I wanted the bathroom to go there.......you find me 1 post where Ive said that Mr Builder........."

[rodgerfox]

Dont ever do renovations is my advice. You'll confuse the cr@p out of any builder and Id suggest yourself again.

I can see it now....." i never actually said I wanted the bathroom to go there.......you find me 1 post where Ive said that Mr Builder........."

I can understand how that would confuse a rectum like you.

However for the average human being, quite simply if you don't say you want the bathroom there, then the f***ing plumber shouldn't put it there.

Your advice should probably have been - "don't ever let me do your renovations for you. Cause I'll put shiit wherever I like and completely disregard what you actually told me to do."