Ross Lyon after today

[Con Gorozidis]

Hawks averaged 17 goals per game this year.
Port 15.

Lyon couldnt even imagine that. Let alone coach it.

Exactly

Totally agree with the side he coached.

You do realise he has been a Senior coach for 8 years right?
So what do you mean 'the side he coached'??? Which side exactly.
He has coached many different sides.

None good enough because hes not good enough.

You do realise we kicked more goals than Port in 2009 than they did this year so I think the side matters. Freo were never going to kick big scores like the Hawks so you need to coach the side differently. If footy was as simple as just kicking more goals than other sides then anyone could coach. Is AR a negative coach because we only kicked 212 goals this year?

1.Port kicked more goals this year (362) than us in 09 (350) and still only finished 3rd. So not good enough.
2. If AR sides only kick 212 goals for the next 7 years. Then yes he will be a terrible negative coach.
3. The Hawks list has not been set in stone. It has changed drastically over the last eight years. So you cant just say 'they have a good list. They have had 8 separate lists. Ross Lyon has had his chances at 8 separate lists.
4. If it comforts you or makes you happy to believe RL is a great coach. Then go on believing it. But we need to close this thread. It is all just based on peoples irrational emotional cuddle blankets.

Really for some people (and im not a psychologist so i dont know why), they get comfort from thinking that we had a great side in 09 and RL was a great coach. I'm not sure why this comforts people - but it does. Maybe it soothes peoples insecurities. I'm not sure. Thats why this whole thread has become a waste of time. Some people want to believe or feel that and will keep doing so regardless of any discussion had on here. It has become a purely emotive discussion. The mods should send this thread to the AE. Its run its course.

Isnt it funny that the people who don't rate RL coaching think the people who did in 09 and 10 have the psychological issues when it is the RL haters who always seem to start these stupid threads. maybe you need to look at their issues as well. And why should the thread be moved? Its is getting more responses and looks at than most threads. Is it because you don't like it or because it goes on and off topic like just about every thread. It will go down the list once people don't want to reply anymore. At the moment you seem to want to reply even if is to say you don't want to reply. I do know that you do like to move though so that maybe the reason for you to suggest this thread is moved.

I started the tread on his future. Look at the thread title.
But others like your good self dragged it into a navel gazing exercise about how great we were in 09.
So you actually just proved my point.

Yes Con that makes sense because the RL never went back to 2009. Matter of fact the first person who brought up 2009 was one of those RL haters. Your bias doesn't even allow you to see both sides. And you also keep posting.

Those two sentences make no sense at all. I suggest you try again.

And what is my bias? I dont have anything against RL. Nothing at all.Zero. I reckon hes a good coach and interesting bloke. Id love to have a beer with him. I just think any coach in VFL/AFL history that has coached for 8 straight years without a flag cant be considered great. Simple as that. Nothing to do with RL actually. A purely objective statement completely independent of RL.

Add to that he inherited a side that had finished the previous three years 3rd, 4th 5th. Once again objective facts. It is the myth-makers who want to unconvincingly argue he inherited a bunch of 'no hoper' 'Bad News Bears' and turned them into a lean mean fighting machine. Objective facts tell us otherwise.

It is the bias when people then come into that simple argument with convoluted apologies and theories trying to explain how despite no flags in 8 straight years - with proven good lists at his disposal - he should still be considered a 'great. Who is bias actually? I'm not sure you understand the meaning of the word.

And I never said psychological 'problems' either. Nothing wrong with comfort. I don't see it as a 'problem'. It is what it is.

It just means this discussion has nowhere to go. Some will think hes not great. Some will think he was great. I think the want to believe in a greatness based on non empirical objective evidence but a 'feeling' or a convoluted 'ideology' is a myth.

But as I said - go on believing. Go on defending. Go on making subjective apologist arguments. Go on trying to deflect and criticise.
Its your prerogative. This thread was started to discuss the future. You and many of your comrades have anchored it in the quagmire of the past.

Now plugger are you telling me you know what my intention was in starting this thread better than I do?

I never had any intention of making this thread bout 09 - it was meant to be about 2015-17.

So mods shut it down!

[samuraisaint]

We did have great years in 2009 and 2010. We also had a great year in 1997. I, for one, would prefer for us to slowly build a side which competes for Grand Finals, not eighth, so in my mind those years take on a rose coloured hue.
What we need to make sure happens though, and this did not happen in those years or 1971, is that we come up with an alternative attacking option to put the game beyond reach when we get a flow on game going in a Grannie. Cowboy Neale, Bob Keddie, Shane Ellen, etc. I'm going to be controversial and suggest that Lyon should've moved Fisher to CHF in 2009 and played Roo upfield. We can't really suggest we were unlucky when we failed to kick even one goal in the last quarter.
Interestingly, did you know that in 1997 despite finishing on top we didn't beat any of the other top 4 sides that year? We only played the other three once in the H&A and didn't face Adelaide until the Grannie in the finals. Funny, isn't it.

Our comprehensive win against North in the prelim that year is the best win I have ever seen by a St. Kilda side. Old time St. Kilda supporters have suggested to me that the 1971 preliminary final win against Richmond was the greatest victory they have seen, because of the talent and strength of the opponent and because it was such a comprehensive victory. Perhaps we played our grand final a week early in those seasons. I certainly think Sydney did this year.

[plugger66]

Those two sentences make no sense at all. I suggest you try again.

And what is my bias? I dont have anything against RL. Nothing at all.Zero. I reckon hes a good coach and interesting bloke. Id love to have a beer with him. I just think any coach in VFL/AFL history that has coached for 8 straight years without a flag cant be considered great. Simple as that. Nothing to do with RL actually. A purely objective statement completely independent of RL.

Add to that he inherited a side that had finished the previous three years 3rd, 4th 5th. Once again objective facts. It is the myth-makers who want to unconvincingly argue he inherited a bunch of 'no hoper' 'Bad News Bears' and turned them into a lean mean fighting machine. Objective facts tell us otherwise.

It is the bias when people then come into that simple argument with convoluted apologies and theories trying to explain how despite no flags in 8 straight years - with proven good lists at his disposal - he should still be considered a 'great. Who is bias actually? I'm not sure you understand the meaning of the word.

And I never said psychological 'problems' either. Nothing wrong with comfort. I don't see it as a 'problem'. It is what it is.

It just means this discussion has nowhere to go. Some will think hes not great. Some will think he was great. I think the want to believe in a greatness based on non empirical objective evidence but a 'feeling' or a convoluted 'ideology' is a myth.

But as I said - go on believing. Go on defending. Go on making subjective apologist arguments. Go on trying to deflect and criticise.
Its your prerogative. This thread was started to discuss the future. You and many of your comrades have anchored it in the quagmire of the past.

Now plugger are you telling me you know what my intention was in starting this thread better than I do?

I never had any intention of making this thread bout 09 - it was meant to be about 2015-17.

So mods shut it down!

And yet you continue to post. It will die a natural death when people don't want to post anymore, not when you are sick of it. And why when you post, you post emotive untruths to get some sort of points scoring. No hoper, bad news near. Seriously. Its all fun though.

[Con Gorozidis]

And yet you continue to post. It will die a natural death when people don't want to post anymore, not when you are sick of it. And why when you post, you post emotive untruths to get some sort of points scoring. No hoper, bad news near. Seriously. Its all fun though.

No flag in 8 years - objective fact.
Finished 3rd 4th 5th prior to 07 - objective fact.
Me knowing the intention of the thread i started - objective fact.
The intention of this thread being about his future - objective fact.
The bulk of the comments on this thread being dedicated to the past - objective fact.

Where is the emotive untruth?

[plugger66]

And yet you continue to post. It will die a natural death when people don't want to post anymore, not when you are sick of it. And why when you post, you post emotive untruths to get some sort of points scoring. No hoper, bad news near. Seriously. Its all fun though.

No flag in 8 years - fact.
Finished 3rd 4th 5th prior to 07 - fact.

Where is the emotive untruth?

People saying our list were no hopers and bad news bears. Finished 7th in 2006 by the way so that is what is called fiction by you. I haven't read that at all. Anyway this thread is about 2015-17.

[Con Gorozidis]

And yet you continue to post. It will die a natural death when people don't want to post anymore, not when you are sick of it. And why when you post, you post emotive untruths to get some sort of points scoring. No hoper, bad news near. Seriously. Its all fun though.

No flag in 8 years - fact.
Finished 3rd 4th 5th prior to 07 - fact.

Where is the emotive untruth?

People saying our list were no hopers and bad news bears. Finished 7th in 2006 by the way so that is what is called fiction by you. I haven't read that at all. Anyway this thread is about 2015-17.

6th at end of home and away - objective fact - and hardly an important one in that we clearly had a good list (3 straight finals appearances just prior to 07) .

But once again if it brings you comfort to believe in a prophet or guru. Go right ahead. Its like trying to argue with a religious zealot that maybe their guru/prophet/messiah is just an ordinary person after all. It is impossible. They wont budge. Thats how it is here. If you believe he is the prophet. Go right ahead.

8 years. 8 different lists. 0 flags
Next year it will 9 years. 9 lists. 0 flags.
The year after 10 years. 10 lists. 0 flags.

[whiskers3614]

How long left on Freo contract?

[plugger66]

And yet you continue to post. It will die a natural death when people don't want to post anymore, not when you are sick of it. And why when you post, you post emotive untruths to get some sort of points scoring. No hoper, bad news near. Seriously. Its all fun though.

No flag in 8 years - fact.
Finished 3rd 4th 5th prior to 07 - fact.

Where is the emotive untruth?

People saying our list were no hopers and bad news bears. Finished 7th in 2006 by the way so that is what is called fiction by you. I haven't read that at all. Anyway this thread is about 2015-17.

6th at end of home and away - objective fact - and hardly an important one in that we clearly had a good list (3 straight finals appearances just prior to 07) .

But once again if it brings you comfort to believe in a prophet or guru. Go right ahead. Its like trying to argue with a religious zealot that maybe their guru/prophet/messiah is just an ordinary person after all. It is impossible. They wont budge. Thats how it is here. If you believe he is the prophet. Go right ahead.

8 years. 8 different lists. 0 flags
Next year it will 9 years. 9 lists. 0 flags.
The year after 10 years. 10 lists. 0 flags.

No just pointing out your fact was fiction and just pointing out you started the thread about the future but you also keep bringing up the past. And just pointing out you use emotive non truths to somehow prove you are right. For a person with no bias you show plenty of bias and you continue to keep posting.

[loris]

How long left on Freo contract?

Freo extended him another 2 years a month or so ago on his current contract. I think it now takes him up till end of 2017............... I could stand corrected tho.

[whiskers3614]

How long left on Freo contract?

Freo extended him another 2 years a month or so ago on his current contract. I think it now takes him up till end of 2017............... I could stand corrected tho.

That will bring him to 6 years at FReo, and life after Pavlich Sandilands and a couple of others.
We will see then if he or Freo have learned from our list management mistakes or not.

[loris]

How long left on Freo contract?

Freo extended him another 2 years a month or so ago on his current contract. I think it now takes him up till end of 2017............... I could stand corrected tho.

That will bring him to 6 years at FReo, and life after Pavlich Sandilands and a couple of others.
We will see then if he or Freo have learned from our list management mistakes or not.

We could offer up CJ.................... Lyon got the best out of him, and we know Lyon loves 'role players'

[matrix]

crikey imagine if he got there this week and the hawks did the same thing to freo as they did to the swans yesterday!

this thread would be at 156 thousand pages

[whiskers3614]

crikey imagine if he got there this week and the hawks did the same thing to freo as they did to the swans yesterday!

this thread would be at 156 thousand pages

I reckon his game plan makes huge blow outs unlikely, although Hawks did smash Freo early in the year.

[magnifisaint]

I wonder if he watched the Grand Final

[Scollop]

He's too busy teaching his kids soccer, eating cream buns and pissing himself laughing at the contracts he's managed to secure. Gotta admire him though and good luck to the salesman.

I agree RL is great. I think I'll be starting a new thread that reads; "Ross Lyon is a great salesman"

[Con Gorozidis]

Ross Lyon would never produce a Will Langford at aged 22. He'd have stuck with Brad Sewell.
Agree with Scollop. Great salesman. Sold his 'defensive guru' mantra product to the highest bidders like a late-night tele-commercial.

[Scollop]

So whats the point of this thread and why is it 39 pages long.. Who cares.

We do… sad lonely saints fans arguing about the past. It's my first choice weekend activity.

Interesting thread. Dragit and Con. Succinct and Both always good for a laugh

I miss these posters. Also had good foresight when it came to our great game of Aussie Rules

I don’t know what’s worse: arguing with simpletons or arguing with posters these days who think they’re intellectuals but have no clue when it comes to footy

[saynta]

So whats the point of this thread and why is it 39 pages long.. Who cares.

We do… sad lonely saints fans arguing about the past. It's my first choice weekend activity.

Interesting thread. Dragit and Con. Succinct and Both always good for a laugh

I miss these posters. Also had good foresight when it came to our great game of Aussie Rules

I don’t know what’s worse: arguing with simpletons or arguing with posters these days who think they’re intellectuals but have no clue when it comes to footy