the most intelligent comment of the thread so far IMHO!Dont forget his 7 goals a few weeks ago for the Scorps. He must be able to hit the target sometimes.
He would have been under a lot of pressure on Sunday, probably self-induced. You will find he will be more accurate with a few games under his belt.
Fergie
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starsign
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saintsRrising
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My comments are based on what he delivered on the day.St Fidelius wrote:I don't know if you have a problem is reading....saintsRrising wrote:Yes he was only in the back line for a short period in which he was beaten and had at least one..perhaps 2 goals kicked on him. That to me means he was towelled up.St Fidelius wrote:
Care to explain what you mean by "towelled up"????
He had one goal kicked against him, that hardly means he was "towelled up"
AGAIN
he had ONE goal kicked against him NOT "perhaps 2"....
Yze was the player who received a good pass that would have been hard for anyone to stop.
Yze kicked another goal when Dempster was on him.
To say that he was "towelled up", indicates to me, that you have never been a fan of Fergs and now you are attempting to justify this by suggesting that he was "towelled up"
You have always been a big fan of Fergs and I think you are the one who has allowed his Ferg "bias" to color your judgement.
10 disposals and 40% Disposal effectiveness with zero goals does not = a good game.
Good by the way means better than average.
It was not a better than average game.
It was a fair performance by a player who has not played a lot at senior level and deserving of another game in the seniors. He showed good potential...but potential is a dirty word at St Kilda.
Fair by the way does not mean bad...it means fair.
He was beaten by his opponent when he played in defence....that is the reality.
However I desperately hope that Ferg can succeed as a medium marking option as our forward line desperately needs another dimension up forward.
If Ferg can keep presenting and taking marks it will have a multiplier effect as the opposition backs will be less able to play extra numbers on Roo and Kosi.
Remember though that the main reason why Charlie has not made it is that despite gaining a reasonable number of scoring opportunities that he did not kick enough goals. Ferg needs to nail goals. ..and yes Roo and kosi need to nail a higher % too!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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starsign
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Sorry sRs ,
it doesn't fit my definition here ... nor IMHO its common usage in sporting contests
(it actaully comes from medical terminology pertaining to a procedure used in the operating theatre whereby the patient is prepared for surgery, by towelling up the around the area
designated for incision...for what that's worth)
anywy I think
Max Houghton "towelled up" Mathew LLoyd when we played the Dons , when he didn't give him
a sniff all day and kept him goalless
and now by logical
extinction you are actually saying Fergie was "towelled up" in being beaten in the two back half
contests in which he was involved during the final quarter
I suppose you could say he was briefly towelled up (by way of those 2 contests) but it seems a contradiction of terms when used in that perspective
anyway keep him down forward eh Ross!
it doesn't fit my definition here ... nor IMHO its common usage in sporting contests
(it actaully comes from medical terminology pertaining to a procedure used in the operating theatre whereby the patient is prepared for surgery, by towelling up the around the area
designated for incision...for what that's worth)
anywy I think
Max Houghton "towelled up" Mathew LLoyd when we played the Dons , when he didn't give him
a sniff all day and kept him goalless
and now by logical
extinction you are actually saying Fergie was "towelled up" in being beaten in the two back half
contests in which he was involved during the final quarter
I suppose you could say he was briefly towelled up (by way of those 2 contests) but it seems a contradiction of terms when used in that perspective
anyway keep him down forward eh Ross!
Wasn't too bad I thought, Yes he missed every shot at goal, but his contested grabs were very impressive. He reminded me of Brett Voss in the way he held on to some of those marks under alot of pressure from the defender.
Definitely deserves another crack next week!!!
Incidentally I was at the game and noticed for the most part he played at full forward deep inside the goal square. Interesting spot to put the shortest of our three tall forwards, but it certainly paid off (well sort of)
Definitely deserves another crack next week!!!
Incidentally I was at the game and noticed for the most part he played at full forward deep inside the goal square. Interesting spot to put the shortest of our three tall forwards, but it certainly paid off (well sort of)
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Guys it was not a diss or a personal attack, but backing up Rodger Fox it is fact that Ferguson has the reputation of being an average set shot at goal. This was the same case in the U18's & the U18 championship where he won All Australian honours in the same Vic Country side as Brendon Goddard.
He took hanger after hanger & kept running down opponents in that game, but kicked more points than goals through set shots.
No doubt he'll get it together but he's never been a reliable set shot. Even that VFL game, he kiicked 7 goals from about 14 shots, still I'll take that any day of the week....duh!
He's got a work ethic & tenacity that will give him every chance to succeed.
He took hanger after hanger & kept running down opponents in that game, but kicked more points than goals through set shots.
No doubt he'll get it together but he's never been a reliable set shot. Even that VFL game, he kiicked 7 goals from about 14 shots, still I'll take that any day of the week....duh!
He's got a work ethic & tenacity that will give him every chance to succeed.
all he needs to do is aim for a point, then he will get goals...easy fixed.savatage wrote:Guys it was not a diss or a personal attack, but backing up Rodger Fox it is fact that Ferguson has the reputation of being an average set shot at goal. This was the same case in the U18's & the U18 championship where he won All Australian honours in the same Vic Country side as Brendon Goddard.
He took hanger after hanger & kept running down opponents in that game, but kicked more points than goals through set shots.
No doubt he'll get it together but he's never been a reliable set shot. Even that VFL game, he kiicked 7 goals from about 14 shots, still I'll take that any day of the week....duh!
He's got a work ethic & tenacity that will give him every chance to succeed.
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saintsRrising
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"Was towelled up when moved to the backline. So leave him as a forward"starsign wrote:Sorry sRs ,
I suppose you could say he was briefly towelled up (by way of those 2 contests) but it seems a contradiction of terms when used in that perspective
anyway keep him down forward eh Ross!
Why does that disagree with what you said??
In the forward line he beat his opponent.
In the backline he was beaten by his opponent...easily...so hence I said towelled up.
In the forwar line he looked good part from his kicking.
His poor kicking let him down. With "average' kicking he would hae been a much more dangerous player.
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saintsRrising
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"Towelled up"
In the context of sport towelled up means to thrash, severely beat, or comprehensively beat your opponent....give your opponent a hiding etc...
On derivation:
http://www.anu.edu.au/ANDC/res/aus_words/wwi/T.php
Towelled Up = Severely punished .
General Australian. From 1919 (AND). Attested in numerous sources.
‘Towel’ meaning ‘to beat, cudgel, thrash’ dated back to 1795. The ‘towel up’ combination is Australian. It also relates to the ‘oaken towel’, sometimes just ‘towel’, meaning ‘stick, cudgel’ which dates back to 1739.
Thats ok Starsign...we will have to agree to disagree...but my understanding of the derivation of Towelled up....and its use is different to yours.starsign wrote:Sorry sRs ,
it doesn't fit my definition here ... nor IMHO its common usage in sporting contests
(it actaully comes from medical terminology pertaining to a procedure used in the operating theatre whereby the patient is prepared for surgery, by towelling up the around the area
designated for incision...for what that's worth)
In the context of sport towelled up means to thrash, severely beat, or comprehensively beat your opponent....give your opponent a hiding etc...
On derivation:
http://www.anu.edu.au/ANDC/res/aus_words/wwi/T.php
Towelled Up = Severely punished .
General Australian. From 1919 (AND). Attested in numerous sources.
‘Towel’ meaning ‘to beat, cudgel, thrash’ dated back to 1795. The ‘towel up’ combination is Australian. It also relates to the ‘oaken towel’, sometimes just ‘towel’, meaning ‘stick, cudgel’ which dates back to 1739.
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can i just say that people saying he was easily beaten while playing back a delusional. His opponent took a good grab on the lead while Ferg was toe to toe with him, the kick was spot on and nothing much any defender could have done to stop it.
Then those who go on and ramble about being a Forward not backman should never be back etc. etc. are full of themselves.
Now i love Ferg as a forward and always have, he has played a solid amount of footy forwardsfor the Scorps for some years, and always been capable. an opportunity presented itse;f and he took it, for the moment. His versatility is far beyond anyone elses in the squad and this allows him to be swung back, and that is a huge asset to him. and he is NOT out of his depth as a backman.
It's players like that which mean teams can adjust on the day and play the game as its being played there and then.
Lyons comments were fair, and the bloke need to work on a few things. While some people rant the he kicked 7 for the scorps etc. etc. remember, for those who weren't there, and i'm guessing alot of you, it was 7.5 and one out on the full.
Ferg should and is quite capable of playing in the best 22 all year, but let's just see how he goes this week. Good luck to him, and iknow he can do it.
Then those who go on and ramble about being a Forward not backman should never be back etc. etc. are full of themselves.
Now i love Ferg as a forward and always have, he has played a solid amount of footy forwardsfor the Scorps for some years, and always been capable. an opportunity presented itse;f and he took it, for the moment. His versatility is far beyond anyone elses in the squad and this allows him to be swung back, and that is a huge asset to him. and he is NOT out of his depth as a backman.
It's players like that which mean teams can adjust on the day and play the game as its being played there and then.
Lyons comments were fair, and the bloke need to work on a few things. While some people rant the he kicked 7 for the scorps etc. etc. remember, for those who weren't there, and i'm guessing alot of you, it was 7.5 and one out on the full.
Ferg should and is quite capable of playing in the best 22 all year, but let's just see how he goes this week. Good luck to him, and iknow he can do it.
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saintsRrising
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Odd I thought he was mainly played back, with some midfield stints...and only very recently got more extensive time up forward???? Still maybe the reports were wrong??iceman wrote:
Now i love Ferg as a forward and always have, he has played a solid amount of footy forwards for the Scorps for some years, .
IMO at AFL his lack of pace will cause him problems against likely opponents if he plays back.iceman wrote: and he is NOT out of his depth as a backman.
.
Which is not to say that he cannot play there at all.
However I see him a bit like a slightly bigger Vossy...and I think given his skill set that he is a lot more likely to find success as a medium forward rather than as a medium back. Voss however was a nice kick at goal. Vosse's lack of pace caused a premature end to his career.
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Ferg's DE was 40% because he missed the shots at goal. If he made his shots, then his efficiency would have been 90%. The only problem with his game on the weekend was his goal kicking. Everything else looked very good. There's every reason to be excited about what Ferg brings to this team right now.saintsRrising wrote:10 disposals and 40% Disposal effectiveness with zero goals does not = a good game.
Yeah nah pleasing positive
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saintsRrising
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Yes I was aware that he was thrown forward at times.
But it was my understanding that until recently he did not have a full game as a forward??? agfain I only watch some Casey games and so was reliant mainly on match reoprts.
Though perhaps his shocking injury run has restricted him a bit???
As you seem to have watched him a bit, pace wise who would you compare him to?
Gram, quick
Joey, quickish
Hayes, average
Birss, on the slow side
The games I have seen him I would have him as average paced and not quick enough to play on the faster forwards. however again my pool of games is limited.
But it was my understanding that until recently he did not have a full game as a forward??? agfain I only watch some Casey games and so was reliant mainly on match reoprts.
Good to here.iceman wrote:
Ferguson does not lack pace.
Though perhaps his shocking injury run has restricted him a bit???
As you seem to have watched him a bit, pace wise who would you compare him to?
Gram, quick
Joey, quickish
Hayes, average
Birss, on the slow side
The games I have seen him I would have him as average paced and not quick enough to play on the faster forwards. however again my pool of games is limited.
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saintsRrising
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Well yes I essentially agree...and I am excited too....it is just that with all those misses I cannot rate his game as very good.vacuous space wrote:Ferg's DE was 40% because he missed the shots at goal. If he made his shots, then his efficiency would have been 90%. The only problem with his game on the weekend was his goal kicking. Everything else looked very good. There's every reason to be excited about what Ferg brings to this team right now.saintsRrising wrote:10 disposals and 40% Disposal effectiveness with zero goals does not = a good game.
A miss is a miss...whether it is a pass or a goal. But missed goals hurt more.
By the way Roos shots on goal were poor too. I think Roo will improve somewhat with increased fitness.
With Ferg, I am hopeful that he will settle after "first game (well for the year anyway)" nerves our out of the way.
I think nerves are more of an issue when you havea set shot at goal compared to when you go fora mark.
I believe that an in-form Ferg up forward could complement very well our talls of Kosi and roo...and small in Milne, Schneider and the mids.
Opposition defenders will be less likey to leave their man to double team Roo or Kosi if they believe that in doing so that Ferg will hurt them.
Milney for example has been over used asa marking target because of the double teaming on Roo and Kosi..and while Milney has done reasonably well in this reagrd his lack of height has often been exposed to.
It is just what we need if Ferg can stand up and deliver....and again even with his missed shots on goal he to my thinking earnt another game and was of value against the Dees.
Lets hope he can slot a few goals against the Dogs....and not just for Fergs sake...but for the saints as we desperately need a medium forward option.
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His field kicking was good, his goal kicking was shocking. Hopefully it was just nerves in front of goal because the last thing we need is another forward who struggles with their set shots.saintsRrising wrote:A miss is a miss...whether it is a pass or a goal. But missed goals hurt more.
Yeah nah pleasing positive
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saintsRrising
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I am confident he will be better....but from past reports is a 50/50 type of guy for shots on goal.vacuous space wrote:His field kicking was good, his goal kicking was shocking. Hopefully it was just nerves in front of goal because the last thing we need is another forward who struggles with their set shots.saintsRrising wrote:A miss is a miss...whether it is a pass or a goal. But missed goals hurt more.
Still that would be him right up there at the Saints at present
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St Fidelius
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Hey...saintsRrising wrote:My comments are based on what he delivered on the day.St Fidelius wrote:I don't know if you have a problem is reading....saintsRrising wrote:Yes he was only in the back line for a short period in which he was beaten and had at least one..perhaps 2 goals kicked on him. That to me means he was towelled up.St Fidelius wrote:
Care to explain what you mean by "towelled up"????
He had one goal kicked against him, that hardly means he was "towelled up"
AGAIN
he had ONE goal kicked against him NOT "perhaps 2"....
Yze was the player who received a good pass that would have been hard for anyone to stop.
Yze kicked another goal when Dempster was on him.
To say that he was "towelled up", indicates to me, that you have never been a fan of Fergs and now you are attempting to justify this by suggesting that he was "towelled up"
You have always been a big fan of Fergs and I think you are the one who has allowed his Ferg "bias" to color your judgement.
10 disposals and 40% Disposal effectiveness with zero goals does not = a good game.
Good by the way means better than average.
It was not a better than average game.
It was a fair performance by a player who has not played a lot at senior level and deserving of another game in the seniors. He showed good potential...but potential is a dirty word at St Kilda.
Fair by the way does not mean bad...it means fair.
He was beaten by his opponent when he played in defence....that is the reality.
However I desperately hope that Ferg can succeed as a medium marking option as our forward line desperately needs another dimension up forward.
If Ferg can keep presenting and taking marks it will have a multiplier effect as the opposition backs will be less able to play extra numbers on Roo and Kosi.
Remember though that the main reason why Charlie has not made it is that despite gaining a reasonable number of scoring opportunities that he did not kick enough goals. Ferg needs to nail goals. ..and yes Roo and kosi need to nail a higher % too!!!!!!!!!!!!!
How about you cut your obvious bias on your dislike of this player FFS...
Have another look at the last quarter and you come back on here and repeat the the was "TOWELED UP"...
Did you notice a couple of things where he was AT THE BALL in the last quarter???
Schneider's first goal in the last quarter.. the only other player next to him was Fergs...
The very next shot for goal was Joey (given a free for a trip) Fergs was the only other player running into goal for a pass....
another statement of his so called towelled up quarter was a snap at goal on his left foot where he marked and played on but just missed...
Now you tell me who is biased in their opinions....
You have never liked him and your recent comments confirms this, and you comment that his performance is Fair....and he was TOWELLED UP in the last quarter when he had ONE goal kicked against him....
Tell me now that I am biased and your not ????
You never liked Fergs and your agenda is still continuing FWIW
Don't wait for the light at the end of the tunnel to appear, run down there and light the bloody thing yourself!
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Got to admit that I felt really sorry for Ferg as he missed shot after shot. Haven't seen enough of him to know whether it's him or just a bad day in front of the sticks, but to see him basically dominate after years on the outer and then fail to convert what could have been an announcement of his presence with authority after doing the hard yards was dissapointing.
If he can continue to command the ball like that, he'll be fine... unfortunately, it was only Melbourne, and if he starts his tally on the weekend with a point, it's almost sure to get into his head.
If he can continue to command the ball like that, he'll be fine... unfortunately, it was only Melbourne, and if he starts his tally on the weekend with a point, it's almost sure to get into his head.
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His game on Sunday was good - but left him tonnes of room to improve
However if he keeps taking marks like he did - and even converts half of them - well thats goals we were not getting before he was in the team. When was the last time someone had 14 shots on goal (as he did in the Scorps) (let alone a 3rd foward) - so if he gets 7 of them he will b a hero.
We, on this forum, have been screaming for someone to stand up and be counted in our forward line - well I reckon Burger did that against the Dees. If he can do it again against the Doggies he will almost cement his place in the team AFAIC.
Great to see someone with less height crashing the pack, or soaring over it! Would love to see Burger and Kosi raffling the forward 50's target stats - take away our predictability and allow Roo to set them both up - with Milne and Schneider at their feet!
However if he keeps taking marks like he did - and even converts half of them - well thats goals we were not getting before he was in the team. When was the last time someone had 14 shots on goal (as he did in the Scorps) (let alone a 3rd foward) - so if he gets 7 of them he will b a hero.
We, on this forum, have been screaming for someone to stand up and be counted in our forward line - well I reckon Burger did that against the Dees. If he can do it again against the Doggies he will almost cement his place in the team AFAIC.
Great to see someone with less height crashing the pack, or soaring over it! Would love to see Burger and Kosi raffling the forward 50's target stats - take away our predictability and allow Roo to set them both up - with Milne and Schneider at their feet!