OFFICIAL TEAM (when known) discussion thread

[saint66au]

Gehrig - I think he was made out to be a scapegoat, and wasn't playing that badly to begin with..

agree. he was sort of the sacrificial lamb, an attitude i despise.

it's difficult to argue against gehrig's inclusion when you factor in that he's averaging five a game against richmond in his last seven outings against them.

also, the performance of our forwards last week was hardly inspiring.

to me our insistence on going to riewoldt at all costs has been a bigger problem for longer than fraser's lack of "forward pressure".

i wouldn't be in the least surprised if riewoldt gets a run further up the ground this week (wing) where he can use his enormous endurance to our best advantage.

richo's been playing that role beautifully for the tigers and it hasn't even stopped him kicking goals.

Raph Clarke - Pretty stiff.

agree. he'll be back before too long and i don't mind the idea of him playing forward.

Rooy on the wing. I think that is the first time you have mentioned that but you are right. Get him as far away from goal so we dont kick it to him. Why use our best forward on the forward line.

'

Do you mean our best forward or our only forward??????? lol

Why not start him up the ground. If it doesnt work we can always move him forward again.

Gotta think outside the square sometimes. We are painfully predictable going forward at the moment..ie spend 10 mins getting it to forward 50 then get frustrated and shank a kick over Roo's head or at his bootlaces

Oh and just on the team selection thing. Lst time I checked you need to win a lot of games to make the finals..and if you miss the 8 its very hard to win the flag apparently

Blooding players cos its "only Richmond"..Pffft..arrogant nonsense and would provide them with all the motivation they need to fire up against us. The days of blooding blokes "cos we are only playing Team X" vanished years ago. Plus..loked at our % lately?? Blooding for the future wont bridge that 2 game gap between us and the other teams on 12 points

Sure you look at specific matchups etc, but its Round 7 for Gods sake, not Round 21 with us sitting 15th.

[Hurricane]

Some big ins for us this week. Schnider and Gardiner are very valuable especially Gardi.

G-Train on teh other hand is an intresting one, the Herald Sun today mentioned a "horses for courses" policy with G which I reckon is a good idea.

Basically we only play him against sides he usually towels up and leave him either at home or at Casey when we are playing a side he traditionally struggles against.

BANG BANG

[saintly]

i'm sorry, i think the team on paper looks slow. Richmond will run the saints ragged based on the players that came in.

instead of problems with 3 tralls in the foward line there is 2 .

kosi, reiwoldt. gehrig and c. gardiner.

where is the run?

[starsign]

On paper we have a great team to beat Richmond. But where is the upside? With the exception of Armoo all the players should already be at their peak

We have selected a team that will not win us the premiership but can beat Richmond (which is just getting off the bottom rung). Have we stooped that far to steal 4 points.

I seriously think you are underestimating the Tigers Current form Shaggy
I too am all for blooding the youngsters, but you have to take each game as it comes and select a side to match up with, and DEFEAT the opposition
Now I dont think you are seriously taking into consideration the Tigers form over the past 4-5 weeks , especially in terms of intensity and TEAMWORK when c/f ours
and a champion TEAM will always beat a team full of champions!
If you were arguing that by dropping a few of our more experienced and so-called star players on their dismal showing in these areas last week , in the hope that younger inexperienced ones may turn this around , I might be inclined to agree with you, but not on the argument you put forward
Because if we play as a TEAM like last week we will not match the Tigers, and the PRIORITY is getting the four points
We are more likely to turn it around and at least match them by putting the acid on those that faltered against PA, having dropped perhaps the worst offenders (maybe the exception IMHO Blake c/f Goose)
I'll be all for dropping the likes of Goose and Charlie even NDS etc next week if they dont seize this opportunity to redeem themselves

[starsign]

sorry I meant to add that the inclusions this week especially in our ruck set-up has strenghtenid the lineup, but in terms of the TEAM its not a given that we will improve in those vital ares i mentioned enough to match it with the TIGERS
It is sheer folly to UNDERESTIMATE your OPPOSITION [quote][/quote]

[starsign]

i'm sorry, i think the team on paper looks slow. Richmond will run the saints ragged based on the players that came in.

instead of problems with 3 tralls in the foward line there is 2 .

kosi, reiwoldt. gehrig and c. gardiner.

where is the run?

not sure I follow your thinking here Saintly
Based on the ones that came in c/f the outs we will be a bit quicker than last week I would have thought
Hopefully M Gardner is at least going to give our mids some 1st use of the ball to get us moving
With the foward talls Kozi is going to be in the ruck for maybe up to 50% cos theres no Blake, and RL was still keen on the KOZI & G set up last time I heard him comment on it , indicating they need more time to work on the finer points! pehaps this will sort it one way or the other, and theres options of Kozi to CHF and Roo up the ground that i would like to see happen for some part
Pehaps at the stars because we certainly are extremely predictable

[BAM! (shhhh)]

sorry I meant to add that the inclusions this week especially in our ruck set-up has strenghtenid the lineup, but in terms of the TEAM its not a given that we will improve in those vital ares i mentioned enough to match it with the TIGERS
It is sheer folly to UNDERESTIMATE your OPPOSITION

Equally, it would be folly to select a team based on negating a young, struggling team that may even be overperforming at 2 wins and a draw... people are very proud of them this week, but if Franklin had kicked straight, they wouldn't rate a mention.

Instead we have selected a former all Australian ruckman, a former Coleman medallist, and a former premiership small forward.

At the end of the day, this match will come down to which St. Kilda shows up. The team that applied extreme pressure to Essendon all over the ground, that most weeks has teased us for a quarter, or the team that tried to sit on a 12 point defacit late in the 1st qtr against Port and failed.

Make no mistake, as well as having the wood on the Tigers historically, and a more accomplished lineup on paper, there's still at least as much "potential" in our listed team as in the Tigers team of youngsters, that's just how far we've underperformed. We've copped a beating in the press this week, and that's tended to light a fire in the past. The Saints don't need to underestimate, or even consider their opposition. They need to dictate play for 4 quarters, and the Tigers won't be able to go with them.

[bigcarl]

Rooy on the wing. I think that is the first time you have mentioned that but you are right. Get him as far away from goal so we dont kick it to him. Why use our best forward on the forward line.

jesus. anyone would think i'm chairman of the match committee the way you carry on. don't worry, i'm not that influental. but i'm often right

[saintly]

i'm sorry, i think the team on paper looks slow. Richmond will run the saints ragged based on the players that came in.

instead of problems with 3 tralls in the foward line there is 2 .

kosi, reiwoldt. gehrig and c. gardiner.

where is the run?

not sure I follow your thinking here Saintly
Based on the ones that came in c/f the outs we will be a bit quicker than last week I would have thought
Hopefully M Gardner is at least going to give our mids some 1st use of the ball to get us moving
With the foward talls Kozi is going to be in the ruck for maybe up to 50% cos theres no Blake, and RL was still keen on the KOZI & G set up last time I heard him comment on it , indicating they need more time to work on the finer points! pehaps this will sort it one way or the other, and theres options of Kozi to CHF and Roo up the ground that i would like to see happen for some part
Pehaps at the stars because we certainly are extremely predictable

my thinking is that instead of bringing in runners, the saints have broguth in more talls. the saints were having problems with 3 talls in the foward line. now there is more.

[bigcarl]

my thinking is that instead of bringing in runners, the saints have broguth in more talls. the saints were having problems with 3 talls in the foward line. now there is more.

i'd be surprised if there's 3 talls forward at any one time. either kosi will ruck or riewoldt will play wing or fraser will be benched.

[starsign]

The Saints don't need to underestimate, or even consider their opposition.

BAM sh i think you have pulled something out of context here and haven't followed the line of arguement
this is a thread on our side as selected and i was merely suggesting to Shaggy that he/she was underestimating the Tigers by taking the line that we should be playing many more of our younger inexperienced brigade this week cos it was only an inferior opposition

and while i'm back on , your argument about "IF Franklin hadda kicked straight".... begs the question I'm sure your aware of ...if my aunty had niagras then she'd be my uncle!
The plain facts were he didnt , for whatever reasons and that the Tigers were right in it, playing their hearts out well into the last quarter, and showing that sort of committment for 4 quarters will put them in with a good show this week if we dish up the same tripe as against PA

and we havent been exactly converting many of our chances lately either , so forget about Buddy

[BAM! (shhhh)]

my thinking is that instead of bringing in runners, the saints have broguth in more talls. the saints were having problems with 3 talls in the foward line. now there is more.

i'd be surprised if there's 3 talls forward at any one time. either kosi will ruck or riewoldt will play wing or fraser will be benched.

I'd be surprised if there aren't 3 tall forwards a lot of times. Especially for centre bounces.

Gardiner will be rucking as often as possible, Reiwoldt will play the game as a leading forward, as will Gehrig, with Kosi holding down the square. Richmond's tall defenders aren't exactly swimming in the quality scalps they've taken over time, so while the 3 talls structure didn't have the impact desired, this is a perfect opportunity to give it another run.

If we can force them to play Richo back more than forward, that should be in our favour.

I doubt we'll see any wild experimentation (e.g Reiwoldt to the wing), I suspect what we'll see is a concerted effort to have 22 players working to the "plan" that we've been training towards rather than making it up as they've apparently been doing previously.

[The_Dud]

i don't get how our forward line is "slow"?

u do realise that they have to play equally big defenders on our big forwards....?

so the "speed" is all relative

and anyway, the big guys are there to take grabs, Milne, Schneider, X, and the rotating midfield are there to take care of the "pace" factor

pace = most overrated part of football

[BAM! (shhhh)]

The Saints don't need to underestimate, or even consider their opposition.

BAM sh i think you have pulled something out of context here and haven't followed the line of arguement
this is a thread on our side as selected and i was merely suggesting to Shaggy that he/she was underestimating the Tigers by taking the line that we should be playing many more of our younger inexperienced brigade this week cos it was only an inferior opposition

and while i'm back on , your argument about "IF Franklin hadda kicked straight".... begs the question I'm sure your aware of ...if my aunty had niagras then she'd be my uncle!
The plain facts were he didnt , for whatever reasons and that the Tigers were right in it, playing their hearts out well into the last quarter, and showing that sort of committment for 4 quarters will put them in with a good show this week if we dish up the same tripe as against PA

and we havent been exactly converting many of our chances lately either , so forget about Buddy

Well, given your suggestion that we needed to "match it with the Tigers", I think you're overestimating the Tigers. i.e. If the Saints play well, the result takes care of itself. For the Tigers to win (which they might) it requires the Saints to play poorly. When selecting a team, you can't go in expecting your players to underperform (i.e. play as they did against Port)), or why are you selecting them? I don't think I took you out of context at all, I just fundamentally disagreed with your suggested approach to selection.

As for buddy and your Aunty's Niagras, when I anticipate the opposition, I look to the percentages, not at the outcomes. For example, in spite of Richmond's efforts, Buddy got 8 shots. We'd be expecting to be able to get Reiwoldt 4 or 5 then, if he gets less we'd be expecting it to be because he set someone else up. We'd be expecting that because of the attention to Reiwoldt, we'd be able to find Gehrig or Kosi with the same kind of opportunity as Roughead. If our Key forwards can take 16 shots, we'd like our chances.

It's not about Buddy's 1.7, it's about what taking 8 scoring shots says about Richmonds defense. There were people thrilled about Fishers performance on Buddy last year when he kicked 1.5... do you think it says more about Fisher, or Buddy? Based on that, do we expect Fisher to hold Buddy to one goal in future matchups? If those are the expectations, you better book your auntie a lot of therapy, because the future isn't written, the best we've got are percentages, and Richmond's aren't great.

[saintsRrising]

i don't get how our forward line is "slow"?

u do realise that they have to play equally big defenders on our big forwards....?
so the "speed" is all relative

Why??? You will often see smaller defenders on bigger forwards...and likewise. And it is not just speed...but the ability to run further...endurance.

Max can and does play on both types of players.


IF both of Kosi and GTrain are played as key forwards,,,then that in part makes the forward line slower.

Now pace is not the only factor....but it is a factor.


And yes you will sometimes scarifice pace t exploit another factor.

But somewhere in your 22 you will at least want some pace and dsah...to help break the lines.


Part of our problem this year is that our quicker runers are down on form:

* Gram. Is not running and bouncing as much. Opostion try and drag him out of the play with good match ups (Gram's errant kicking this year has not helped either.

*Fior. No star...but last year he wasa useful player with good dash. He has lost form this year and has been dropped.

*Joey. We not in horrid form by any means. But so far this year has not been as good.

IF those three were all firing our team would look a lot better.

X...has been thereabouts....but if he could play in the H&A like he played in the NAB we would be much better of.

So no pace is not the only factor.....but if you havea dose of it to break the lines your team hasa vital tool at it's disposal. without it you have to worka lot harder.