Seb Ross

[CQ SAINT]

Clearly, Seb’s role has changed and I reckon he has been hard done by on here.

He's still in my best line up.

Totally agree St Pav, he is in our best 22 but like anyone else in that 22, they have to be in form. Seb may be suffering from players improving and the additions. He's just not adapted, at this point. He's earned credits but so far he's spending them quickly.

I'd rather Byrnes or Bytel play at the moment than asking why is Seb struggling. No winners there. Those that keep demanding Seb keeps playing, in his current form are the ones who cuddle the security blanket of mediocrity.

But is he actually out of form? According to Brett, his form has been good apart from the one game.

Seb is a respected character within the playing group. His form is now in sync with his ability and his role has been adjusted to match his impact.
His best role is as a link player, his ability to run makes him a valuable defensive mid and also allows him to be involved in forward movement.
What everyone has trouble digesting is his lack of composure under pressure, but of all Richos leaders, he has been the fastest to adapt to Rattens philosophies. Still well and truly best 22 but just not top 10. That is a bloody good thing.

[Ghost Like]

Clearly, Seb’s role has changed and I reckon he has been hard done by on here.

He's still in my best line up.

Totally agree St Pav, he is in our best 22 but like anyone else in that 22, they have to be in form. Seb may be suffering from players improving and the additions. He's just not adapted, at this point. He's earned credits but so far he's spending them quickly.

I'd rather Byrnes or Bytel play at the moment than asking why is Seb struggling. No winners there. Those that keep demanding Seb keeps playing, in his current form are the ones who cuddle the security blanket of mediocrity.

But is he actually out of form? According to Brett, his form has been good apart from the one game.

Seb is a respected character within the playing group. His form is now in sync with his ability and his role has been adjusted to match his impact.
His best role is as a link player, his ability to run makes him a valuable defensive mid and also allows him to be involved in forward movement.
What everyone has trouble digesting is his lack of composure under pressure, but of all Richos leaders, he has been the fastest to adapt to Rattens philosophies. Still well and truly best 22 but just not top 10. That is a bloody good thing.

Well put CQ. Apologies for not replying SP but my short answer is yes, he's out of form in my opinion. I believe the answer Ratts gave was a truth to stop further questions - he admitted a poor game without dissecting the rest.

Totally agree that Ross is not in our Top 10, this is either extremely damning of last year's list or he's sadly out of form - I'm not sure which I'd prefer.

[Secret Kiel]

Clearly, Seb’s role has changed and I reckon he has been hard done by on here.

He's still in my best line up.

Totally agree St Pav, he is in our best 22 but like anyone else in that 22, they have to be in form. Seb may be suffering from players improving and the additions. He's just not adapted, at this point. He's earned credits but so far he's spending them quickly.

I'd rather Byrnes or Bytel play at the moment than asking why is Seb struggling. No winners there. Those that keep demanding Seb keeps playing, in his current form are the ones who cuddle the security blanket of mediocrity.

But is he actually out of form? According to Brett, his form has been good apart from the one game.

Seb is a respected character within the playing group. His form is now in sync with his ability and his role has been adjusted to match his impact.
His best role is as a link player, his ability to run makes him a valuable defensive mid and also allows him to be involved in forward movement.
What everyone has trouble digesting is his lack of composure under pressure, but of all Richos leaders, he has been the fastest to adapt to Rattens philosophies. Still well and truly best 22 but just not top 10. That is a bloody good thing.

I'm tipping you've played at some level. Completely agree. Best 22 but just not best 10 and a dam bloody good thing. It just blows me away the amount of misguided criticism Seb attracts from this board and my head internally combusts with laughter when I read posters demand he be droped and replaced with Byrne or Bytel.

[Ghost Like]

Interesting questions...

Is he best 22 on current form?

In form is he best 22?

Are St Kilda better placed to allow / condone his current form?

Should we explore our list to search for improvement?

My answers; No, Yes, No, Yes

[Secret Kiel]

Interesting questions...

Is he best 22 on current form?

In form is he best 22?

Are St Kilda better placed to allow / condone his current form?

Should we explore our list to search for improvement?

My answers; No, Yes, No, Yes

From the comfort of your recliner, who have you seen play at Sandy this year that is AFL ready and can replace Ross. You can't pick Byrnes and Bytel becuase they are both a long way off being AFL ready.

[Vazelos]

St Kilda club banner
Stood out: Hunter Clark

The smooth-moving midfielder took another big stride on Saturday night as St Kilda conquered Adelaide Oval for the second time in a week. Clark made time stand still on occasions during his season-high 24-disposal performance in the win over ladder leaders Port Adelaide. The 21-year-old, taken with pick No.7 in the 2017 draft, adds a touch of class and poise to the Saints' midfield and is growing in confidence with each match he plays.

Must improve: Seb Ross

Seb Ross’ ball use and decision making left a lot to be desired on occasions against the Power. The Saints vice-captain turned the footy over when in space on more than one occasion, putting his teammates under unnecessary pressure. Ross had 18 disposals at 50 per cent efficiency – the second lowest of any Saint on the night.

Alex Zaia

[Ghost Like]

Interesting questions...

Is he best 22 on current form?

In form is he best 22?

Are St Kilda better placed to allow / condone his current form?

Should we explore our list to search for improvement?

My answers; No, Yes, No, Yes

From the comfort of your recliner, who have you seen play at Sandy this year that is AFL ready and can replace Ross. You can't pick Byrnes and Bytel becuase they are both a long way off being AFL ready.

So your answers are; Yes, Yes, Yes, No

Sadly there have been no Sandringham games this year. Can I ask where you bought your special recliner that can see inside the Hub and observe how the players train, interact and allows you inside Ratten's thoughts.

Your logic decrees that no player should debut this year. You must let Rankine, Rowell, Anderson and Max King know plus the plethora of other 2020 debutants.

[Secret Kiel]

Interesting questions...

Is he best 22 on current form?

In form is he best 22?

Are St Kilda better placed to allow / condone his current form?

Should we explore our list to search for improvement?

My answers; No, Yes, No, Yes

From the comfort of your recliner, who have you seen play at Sandy this year that is AFL ready and can replace Ross. You can't pick Byrnes and Bytel becuase they are both a long way off being AFL ready.

So your answers are; Yes, Yes, Yes, No

Sadly there have been no Sandringham games this year. Can I ask where you bought your special recliner that can see inside the Hub and observe how the players train, interact and allows you inside Ratten's thoughts.

Your logic decrees that no player should debut this year. You must let Rankine, Rowell, Anderson and Max King know plus the plethora of other 2020 debutants.

Clearly Byrnes was not up to AFL standard yet you and a few others on here constantly demand he relplace players like Sebby. If you stop drinking from the same bathwater you might also understand Bytel is not ready for AFL yet and without the 2nd tear comp it is really hard to prepare players like Byrnes and Bytel for mens grade. So the irony is how does your recliner make you so convinced these boys should be replacing AFL proven players in a Panemic season that makes it INCREDIBLY hard to drop players for boys who haven't played since high school comp over 3 years ago.

[Ghost Like]

Clearly Sebby is struggling. I am not a fan of continuing to play players who are struggling, there is not an upside there for anyone. St Kilda has a history of doing that, it is one thing to have faith, it is completely different to not seek improvement - all that "doing the same thing over" blah, blah.

I'll trust what Ratten does, his recliner is a bit closer than yours. Excuse me, a fresh pot of bathwater has just boiled. Tim Tam?

[skeptic]

I don’t think anyone is arguing that Seb is clearly top 22 nor that his performance, even down on form, is markedly better than what that of a potential young replacement such as Byrnes/Bytel would be.

That’s not the discussion.

The flip side of that equation is that Ross’ form is WAY down compared to what we know he’s capable of.
At a snap shot, he’s getting to less contests, he’s winning less ball and his disposal has deteriorated markedly. And we’re not talking about rushers kicks under pressure, his handballs, short kicks etc are quite often landing at his team mates feet and they’re getting crunched having to compensate for it...
Have a look at Kent getting injured on the W/E

The question is how to circuit break this because Ross is a good player and quite frankly... we need him to be playing closer to his peak if we’re to be a serious threat this season.

With no reserves... I don’t see a lot of options other than either a complete role change or a rest for a week or 2.

So yes, yes, no, no

However, if you were to replace him with a guy like Bytel or Byrnes... you couldn’t do so with a reasonable expectation that these rookies would come in and match/exceed the performance of the close to 10 year, 150 game + seasoned, tough mid.
You’d do it with the goal of working on developing the rookies’ games with a view of them improving/possibly overtaking Ross or someone else long term.

The question is... is that gamble worth it.

My answer to this has always been yes.
It’s the difference between an Armitage or Steven being ready to play in an 09/10 grand final versus playing an out of form Eddy, McQualter, or out of position Dempster

[Saintmatt]

I don’t think anyone is arguing that Seb is clearly top 22 nor that his performance, even down on form, is markedly down on form versus what that of a potential young replacement such as Byrnes/Bytel would be.

That’s not a discussion.

The flip side of that equation is that Ross’ form is WAY down compared to what we know he’s capable of.
At a snap shot, he’s getting to less contests, he’s winning less ball and his disposal has deteriorated markedly. And we’re not talking about rushers kicks under pressure, his handballs, short kicks etc are quite often landing at his team mates feet and they’re getting crunched having to compensate for it...
Have a look at Kent getting injured on the W/E

The question is how to circuit break this because Ross is a good player and quite frankly... we need him to be playing closer to his peak if we’re to be a serious threat this season.

With no reserves... I don’t see a lot of options other than either a complete role change or a rest for a week or 2.

So yes, yes, no, no

Yep. Perfect summation. I think there seems to be a misconception on here by the Ross defenders that there's a desire to see him flounder and fail. I can't speak for others but, I crave the 2017 Seb Ross that deservedly won a B & F playing really good footy for us (even under Cho's absolute sh!tshow of a ganme plan). I want him to succeed and I want us to succeed but, I'm not going to defend a Senior player who's supposed to be a leader having a really poor patch that's sticking out like dog's balls.

[Sanctorum]

For some reason Seb Ross seems unable to adapt to Brett Ratten's game plan, which for a player of his age and experience tells me that the game is passing him by or that his best is behind him.

If the selectors are consistent and pick players purely on form, which you'd expect, then I would suggest that they play Hunter Clark in midfield for Ross, and bring in one of Savage/Langlands or Phillips for HBF.

[WellardSaint]

Watched replay closely.

Several times, Ross handballs to a guy's feet, resulting in Kent getting rolled, and a couple of others getting grabbed as well.

Not nice.

[bigcarl]

For some reason Seb Ross seems unable to adapt to Brett Ratten's game plan, which for a player of his age and experience tells me that the game is passing him by or that his best is behind him.

If the selectors are consistent and pick players purely on form, which you'd expect, then I would suggest that they play Hunter Clark in midfield for Ross, and bring in one of Savage/Langlands or Phillips for HBF.

Ratts is fairly enamoured of leg speed, which isn’t Seb’s strong suit. So maybe that is a factor in his drop off in form.

But Ratts no doubt realises they can’t all be racehorse; you need steady accumulators too. He publicly backed Seb last week and I expect him to continue until Seb works his way through this slump.

He has a lot of credits in the bank.

But I suspect this is all beside the point. Seb appeared to have a calf strain, so is likely to miss. We’re also missing experienced players of a similar type in Hannebery and Dunstan, which isn’t ideal.

[Secret Kiel]

I don’t think anyone is arguing that Seb is clearly top 22 nor that his performance, even down on form, is markedly better than what that of a potential young replacement such as Byrnes/Bytel would be.

That’s not the discussion.

The flip side of that equation is that Ross’ form is WAY down compared to what we know he’s capable of.
At a snap shot, he’s getting to less contests, he’s winning less ball and his disposal has deteriorated markedly. And we’re not talking about rushers kicks under pressure, his handballs, short kicks etc are quite often landing at his team mates feet and they’re getting crunched having to compensate for it...
Have a look at Kent getting injured on the W/E

The question is how to circuit break this because Ross is a good player and quite frankly... we need him to be playing closer to his peak if we’re to be a serious threat this season.

With no reserves... I don’t see a lot of options other than either a complete role change or a rest for a week or 2.

So yes, yes, no, no

However, if you were to replace him with a guy like Bytel or Byrnes... you couldn’t do so with a reasonable expectation that these rookies would come in and match/exceed the performance of the close to 10 year, 150 game + seasoned, tough mid.
You’d do it with the goal of working on developing the rookies’ games with a view of them improving/possibly overtaking Ross or someone else long term.

The question is... is that gamble worth it.

My answer to this has always been yes.
It’s the difference between an Armitage or Steven being ready to play in an 09/10 grand final versus playing an out of form Eddy, McQualter, or out of position Dempster

And the far greater risk by a long long stretch is to feed a player to the sharks by playing him before he's ready and Byrnes is exhibit A. Bytel is arguably even less ready to take on men at the elite level and through no fault of his own will stuggle to develop adequately to become AFL ready this season due to there being no feeder comp. Scratch matches don't cut it.

[CQ SAINT]

I don’t think anyone is arguing that Seb is clearly top 22 nor that his performance, even down on form, is markedly better than what that of a potential young replacement such as Byrnes/Bytel would be.

That’s not the discussion.

The flip side of that equation is that Ross’ form is WAY down compared to what we know he’s capable of.
At a snap shot, he’s getting to less contests, he’s winning less ball and his disposal has deteriorated markedly. And we’re not talking about rushers kicks under pressure, his handballs, short kicks etc are quite often landing at his team mates feet and they’re getting crunched having to compensate for it...
Have a look at Kent getting injured on the W/E

The question is how to circuit break this because Ross is a good player and quite frankly... we need him to be playing closer to his peak if we’re to be a serious threat this season.

With no reserves... I don’t see a lot of options other than either a complete role change or a rest for a week or 2.

So yes, yes, no, no

However, if you were to replace him with a guy like Bytel or Byrnes... you couldn’t do so with a reasonable expectation that these rookies would come in and match/exceed the performance of the close to 10 year, 150 game + seasoned, tough mid.
You’d do it with the goal of working on developing the rookies’ games with a view of them improving/possibly overtaking Ross or someone else long term.

The question is... is that gamble worth it.

My answer to this has always been yes.
It’s the difference between an Armitage or Steven being ready to play in an 09/10 grand final versus playing an out of form Eddy, McQualter, or out of position Dempster

And the far greater risk by a long long stretch is to feed a player to the sharks by playing him before he's ready and Byrnes is exhibit A. Bytel is arguably even less ready to take on men at the elite level and through no fault of his own will stuggle to develop adequately to become AFL ready this season due to there being no feeder comp. Scratch matches don't cut it.

Nevertheless, I expect Bytel is going to play and like Byrnes, in a game we will win. So tanking won't come into it.

[Saintmatt]

I don’t think anyone is arguing that Seb is clearly top 22 nor that his performance, even down on form, is markedly better than what that of a potential young replacement such as Byrnes/Bytel would be.

That’s not the discussion.

The flip side of that equation is that Ross’ form is WAY down compared to what we know he’s capable of.
At a snap shot, he’s getting to less contests, he’s winning less ball and his disposal has deteriorated markedly. And we’re not talking about rushers kicks under pressure, his handballs, short kicks etc are quite often landing at his team mates feet and they’re getting crunched having to compensate for it...
Have a look at Kent getting injured on the W/E

The question is how to circuit break this because Ross is a good player and quite frankly... we need him to be playing closer to his peak if we’re to be a serious threat this season.

With no reserves... I don’t see a lot of options other than either a complete role change or a rest for a week or 2.

So yes, yes, no, no

However, if you were to replace him with a guy like Bytel or Byrnes... you couldn’t do so with a reasonable expectation that these rookies would come in and match/exceed the performance of the close to 10 year, 150 game + seasoned, tough mid.
You’d do it with the goal of working on developing the rookies’ games with a view of them improving/possibly overtaking Ross or someone else long term.

The question is... is that gamble worth it.

My answer to this has always been yes.
It’s the difference between an Armitage or Steven being ready to play in an 09/10 grand final versus playing an out of form Eddy, McQualter, or out of position Dempster

And the far greater risk by a long long stretch is to feed a player to the sharks by playing him before he's ready and Byrnes is exhibit A. Bytel is arguably even less ready to take on men at the elite level and through no fault of his own will stuggle to develop adequately to become AFL ready this season due to there being no feeder comp. Scratch matches don't cut it.

That's fair enough but, continuing to pick a player who's really struggling (whomever that player is) makes no sense. That's the definition of insanity.

[CQ SAINT]

I don’t think anyone is arguing that Seb is clearly top 22 nor that his performance, even down on form, is markedly better than what that of a potential young replacement such as Byrnes/Bytel would be.

That’s not the discussion.

The flip side of that equation is that Ross’ form is WAY down compared to what we know he’s capable of.
At a snap shot, he’s getting to less contests, he’s winning less ball and his disposal has deteriorated markedly. And we’re not talking about rushers kicks under pressure, his handballs, short kicks etc are quite often landing at his team mates feet and they’re getting crunched having to compensate for it...
Have a look at Kent getting injured on the W/E

The question is how to circuit break this because Ross is a good player and quite frankly... we need him to be playing closer to his peak if we’re to be a serious threat this season.

With no reserves... I don’t see a lot of options other than either a complete role change or a rest for a week or 2.

So yes, yes, no, no

However, if you were to replace him with a guy like Bytel or Byrnes... you couldn’t do so with a reasonable expectation that these rookies would come in and match/exceed the performance of the close to 10 year, 150 game + seasoned, tough mid.
You’d do it with the goal of working on developing the rookies’ games with a view of them improving/possibly overtaking Ross or someone else long term.

The question is... is that gamble worth it.

My answer to this has always been yes.
It’s the difference between an Armitage or Steven being ready to play in an 09/10 grand final versus playing an out of form Eddy, McQualter, or out of position Dempster

And the far greater risk by a long long stretch is to feed a player to the sharks by playing him before he's ready and Byrnes is exhibit A. Bytel is arguably even less ready to take on men at the elite level and through no fault of his own will stuggle to develop adequately to become AFL ready this season due to there being no feeder comp. Scratch matches don't cut it.

That's fair enough but, continuing to pick a player who's really struggling (whomever that player is) makes no sense. That's the definition of insanity.

Let's just rest Seb this week and bring Battle in.

[Secret Kiel]

I don’t think anyone is arguing that Seb is clearly top 22 nor that his performance, even down on form, is markedly better than what that of a potential young replacement such as Byrnes/Bytel would be.

That’s not the discussion.

The flip side of that equation is that Ross’ form is WAY down compared to what we know he’s capable of.
At a snap shot, he’s getting to less contests, he’s winning less ball and his disposal has deteriorated markedly. And we’re not talking about rushers kicks under pressure, his handballs, short kicks etc are quite often landing at his team mates feet and they’re getting crunched having to compensate for it...
Have a look at Kent getting injured on the W/E

The question is how to circuit break this because Ross is a good player and quite frankly... we need him to be playing closer to his peak if we’re to be a serious threat this season.

With no reserves... I don’t see a lot of options other than either a complete role change or a rest for a week or 2.

So yes, yes, no, no

However, if you were to replace him with a guy like Bytel or Byrnes... you couldn’t do so with a reasonable expectation that these rookies would come in and match/exceed the performance of the close to 10 year, 150 game + seasoned, tough mid.
You’d do it with the goal of working on developing the rookies’ games with a view of them improving/possibly overtaking Ross or someone else long term.

The question is... is that gamble worth it.

My answer to this has always been yes.
It’s the difference between an Armitage or Steven being ready to play in an 09/10 grand final versus playing an out of form Eddy, McQualter, or out of position Dempster

And the far greater risk by a long long stretch is to feed a player to the sharks by playing him before he's ready and Byrnes is exhibit A. Bytel is arguably even less ready to take on men at the elite level and through no fault of his own will stuggle to develop adequately to become AFL ready this season due to there being no feeder comp. Scratch matches don't cut it.

Nevertheless, I expect Bytel is going to play and like Byrnes, in a game we will win. So tanking won't come into it.

Hopefully, as you know many more don't make it than do. There is no greater joy for me than watching a player establish themselves and if they make it at AFL level then good on them. I do wonder though if the cheerleading for these two young boys is more about an agenda about Sebby and a past coach. Because the demands for these two to play without having proven themselves at Sandy has been perplexing.

[CQ SAINT]

I don’t think anyone is arguing that Seb is clearly top 22 nor that his performance, even down on form, is markedly better than what that of a potential young replacement such as Byrnes/Bytel would be.

That’s not the discussion.

The flip side of that equation is that Ross’ form is WAY down compared to what we know he’s capable of.
At a snap shot, he’s getting to less contests, he’s winning less ball and his disposal has deteriorated markedly. And we’re not talking about rushers kicks under pressure, his handballs, short kicks etc are quite often landing at his team mates feet and they’re getting crunched having to compensate for it...
Have a look at Kent getting injured on the W/E

The question is how to circuit break this because Ross is a good player and quite frankly... we need him to be playing closer to his peak if we’re to be a serious threat this season.

With no reserves... I don’t see a lot of options other than either a complete role change or a rest for a week or 2.

So yes, yes, no, no

However, if you were to replace him with a guy like Bytel or Byrnes... you couldn’t do so with a reasonable expectation that these rookies would come in and match/exceed the performance of the close to 10 year, 150 game + seasoned, tough mid.
You’d do it with the goal of working on developing the rookies’ games with a view of them improving/possibly overtaking Ross or someone else long term.

The question is... is that gamble worth it.

My answer to this has always been yes.
It’s the difference between an Armitage or Steven being ready to play in an 09/10 grand final versus playing an out of form Eddy, McQualter, or out of position Dempster

And the far greater risk by a long long stretch is to feed a player to the sharks by playing him before he's ready and Byrnes is exhibit A. Bytel is arguably even less ready to take on men at the elite level and through no fault of his own will stuggle to develop adequately to become AFL ready this season due to there being no feeder comp. Scratch matches don't cut it.

Nevertheless, I expect Bytel is going to play and like Byrnes, in a game we will win. So tanking won't come into it.

Hopefully, as you know many more don't make it than do. There is no greater joy for me than watching a player establish themselves and if they make it at AFL level then good on them. I do wonder though if the cheerleading for these two young boys is more about an agenda about Sebby and a past coach. Because the demands for these two to play without having proven themselves at Sandy has been perplexing.

Maybe, but I think Battle might be the one that Seb is replaced by. If Hannerbery was fit there would be no argument. It more about accountability now, than ever before. Ratten isn't a fool. Seb has been given more than enough time to redeem his horror run. It's really hard to undo a lack of skill. Particularly when your new role is more about pressure and less about running loose.

[Secret Kiel]

I don’t think anyone is arguing that Seb is clearly top 22 nor that his performance, even down on form, is markedly better than what that of a potential young replacement such as Byrnes/Bytel would be.

That’s not the discussion.

The flip side of that equation is that Ross’ form is WAY down compared to what we know he’s capable of.
At a snap shot, he’s getting to less contests, he’s winning less ball and his disposal has deteriorated markedly. And we’re not talking about rushers kicks under pressure, his handballs, short kicks etc are quite often landing at his team mates feet and they’re getting crunched having to compensate for it...
Have a look at Kent getting injured on the W/E

The question is how to circuit break this because Ross is a good player and quite frankly... we need him to be playing closer to his peak if we’re to be a serious threat this season.

With no reserves... I don’t see a lot of options other than either a complete role change or a rest for a week or 2.

So yes, yes, no, no

However, if you were to replace him with a guy like Bytel or Byrnes... you couldn’t do so with a reasonable expectation that these rookies would come in and match/exceed the performance of the close to 10 year, 150 game + seasoned, tough mid.
You’d do it with the goal of working on developing the rookies’ games with a view of them improving/possibly overtaking Ross or someone else long term.

The question is... is that gamble worth it.

My answer to this has always been yes.
It’s the difference between an Armitage or Steven being ready to play in an 09/10 grand final versus playing an out of form Eddy, McQualter, or out of position Dempster

And the far greater risk by a long long stretch is to feed a player to the sharks by playing him before he's ready and Byrnes is exhibit A. Bytel is arguably even less ready to take on men at the elite level and through no fault of his own will stuggle to develop adequately to become AFL ready this season due to there being no feeder comp. Scratch matches don't cut it.

Nevertheless, I expect Bytel is going to play and like Byrnes, in a game we will win. So tanking won't come into it.

Hopefully, as you know many more don't make it than do. There is no greater joy for me than watching a player establish themselves and if they make it at AFL level then good on them. I do wonder though if the cheerleading for these two young boys is more about an agenda about Sebby and a past coach. Because the demands for these two to play without having proven themselves at Sandy has been perplexing.

Maybe, but I think Battle might be the one that Seb is replaced by. If Hannerbery was fit there would be no argument. It more about accountability now, than ever before. Ratten isn't a fool. Seb has been given more than enough time to redeem his horror run. It's really hard to undo a lack of skill. Particularly when your new role is more about pressure and less about running loose.

When was he given a new role, I thought he spent summer training a different style which was to use shorter kicks, that's not a new role. And isn't every player required to apply pressure, what is this pressure role you speak of?

[CQ SAINT]

I don’t think anyone is arguing that Seb is clearly top 22 nor that his performance, even down on form, is markedly better than what that of a potential young replacement such as Byrnes/Bytel would be.

That’s not the discussion.

The flip side of that equation is that Ross’ form is WAY down compared to what we know he’s capable of.
At a snap shot, he’s getting to less contests, he’s winning less ball and his disposal has deteriorated markedly. And we’re not talking about rushers kicks under pressure, his handballs, short kicks etc are quite often landing at his team mates feet and they’re getting crunched having to compensate for it...
Have a look at Kent getting injured on the W/E

The question is how to circuit break this because Ross is a good player and quite frankly... we need him to be playing closer to his peak if we’re to be a serious threat this season.

With no reserves... I don’t see a lot of options other than either a complete role change or a rest for a week or 2.

So yes, yes, no, no

However, if you were to replace him with a guy like Bytel or Byrnes... you couldn’t do so with a reasonable expectation that these rookies would come in and match/exceed the performance of the close to 10 year, 150 game + seasoned, tough mid.
You’d do it with the goal of working on developing the rookies’ games with a view of them improving/possibly overtaking Ross or someone else long term.

The question is... is that gamble worth it.

My answer to this has always been yes.
It’s the difference between an Armitage or Steven being ready to play in an 09/10 grand final versus playing an out of form Eddy, McQualter, or out of position Dempster

And the far greater risk by a long long stretch is to feed a player to the sharks by playing him before he's ready and Byrnes is exhibit A. Bytel is arguably even less ready to take on men at the elite level and through no fault of his own will stuggle to develop adequately to become AFL ready this season due to there being no feeder comp. Scratch matches don't cut it.

Nevertheless, I expect Bytel is going to play and like Byrnes, in a game we will win. So tanking won't come into it.

Hopefully, as you know many more don't make it than do. There is no greater joy for me than watching a player establish themselves and if they make it at AFL level then good on them. I do wonder though if the cheerleading for these two young boys is more about an agenda about Sebby and a past coach. Because the demands for these two to play without having proven themselves at Sandy has been perplexing.

Maybe, but I think Battle might be the one that Seb is replaced by. If Hannerbery was fit there would be no argument. It more about accountability now, than ever before. Ratten isn't a fool. Seb has been given more than enough time to redeem his horror run. It's really hard to undo a lack of skill. Particularly when your new role is more about pressure and less about running loose.

When was he given a new role, I thought he spent summer training a different style which was to use shorter kicks, that's not a new role. And isn't every player required to apply pressure, what is this pressure role you speak of?

He isn't covering anything like the kilometres he did in his B&F years. His wings have been clipped and his impact has been dampened. The coaches know that the ball in his hands isn't constructive enough. He now has to refine his skills and control his physical attempts to shake pressure and he can't do it.

[CQ SAINT]

I don’t think anyone is arguing that Seb is clearly top 22 nor that his performance, even down on form, is markedly better than what that of a potential young replacement such as Byrnes/Bytel would be.

That’s not the discussion.

The flip side of that equation is that Ross’ form is WAY down compared to what we know he’s capable of.
At a snap shot, he’s getting to less contests, he’s winning less ball and his disposal has deteriorated markedly. And we’re not talking about rushers kicks under pressure, his handballs, short kicks etc are quite often landing at his team mates feet and they’re getting crunched having to compensate for it...
Have a look at Kent getting injured on the W/E

The question is how to circuit break this because Ross is a good player and quite frankly... we need him to be playing closer to his peak if we’re to be a serious threat this season.

With no reserves... I don’t see a lot of options other than either a complete role change or a rest for a week or 2.

So yes, yes, no, no

However, if you were to replace him with a guy like Bytel or Byrnes... you couldn’t do so with a reasonable expectation that these rookies would come in and match/exceed the performance of the close to 10 year, 150 game + seasoned, tough mid.
You’d do it with the goal of working on developing the rookies’ games with a view of them improving/possibly overtaking Ross or someone else long term.

The question is... is that gamble worth it.

My answer to this has always been yes.
It’s the difference between an Armitage or Steven being ready to play in an 09/10 grand final versus playing an out of form Eddy, McQualter, or out of position Dempster

And the far greater risk by a long long stretch is to feed a player to the sharks by playing him before he's ready and Byrnes is exhibit A. Bytel is arguably even less ready to take on men at the elite level and through no fault of his own will stuggle to develop adequately to become AFL ready this season due to there being no feeder comp. Scratch matches don't cut it.

Nevertheless, I expect Bytel is going to play and like Byrnes, in a game we will win. So tanking won't come into it.

Hopefully, as you know many more don't make it than do. There is no greater joy for me than watching a player establish themselves and if they make it at AFL level then good on them. I do wonder though if the cheerleading for these two young boys is more about an agenda about Sebby and a past coach. Because the demands for these two to play without having proven themselves at Sandy has been perplexing.

Maybe, but I think Battle might be the one that Seb is replaced by. If Hannerbery was fit there would be no argument. It more about accountability now, than ever before. Ratten isn't a fool. Seb has been given more than enough time to redeem his horror run. It's really hard to undo a lack of skill. Particularly when your new role is more about pressure and less about running loose.

When was he given a new role, I thought he spent summer training a different style which was to use shorter kicks, that's not a new role. And isn't every player required to apply pressure, what is this pressure role you speak of?

He isn't covering anything like the kilometres he did in his B&F years. His wings have been clipped and his impact has been dampened. The coaches know that the ball in his hands isn't constructive enough. He now has to refine his skills and control his physical attempts to shake pressure and he can't do it.

It actually more about where he is allowed to run, than running less but he doesn't have as much space to work in and has an opponent close more often than not.

[Secret Kiel]

I don’t think anyone is arguing that Seb is clearly top 22 nor that his performance, even down on form, is markedly better than what that of a potential young replacement such as Byrnes/Bytel would be.

That’s not the discussion.

The flip side of that equation is that Ross’ form is WAY down compared to what we know he’s capable of.
At a snap shot, he’s getting to less contests, he’s winning less ball and his disposal has deteriorated markedly. And we’re not talking about rushers kicks under pressure, his handballs, short kicks etc are quite often landing at his team mates feet and they’re getting crunched having to compensate for it...
Have a look at Kent getting injured on the W/E

The question is how to circuit break this because Ross is a good player and quite frankly... we need him to be playing closer to his peak if we’re to be a serious threat this season.

With no reserves... I don’t see a lot of options other than either a complete role change or a rest for a week or 2.

So yes, yes, no, no

However, if you were to replace him with a guy like Bytel or Byrnes... you couldn’t do so with a reasonable expectation that these rookies would come in and match/exceed the performance of the close to 10 year, 150 game + seasoned, tough mid.
You’d do it with the goal of working on developing the rookies’ games with a view of them improving/possibly overtaking Ross or someone else long term.

The question is... is that gamble worth it.

My answer to this has always been yes.
It’s the difference between an Armitage or Steven being ready to play in an 09/10 grand final versus playing an out of form Eddy, McQualter, or out of position Dempster

And the far greater risk by a long long stretch is to feed a player to the sharks by playing him before he's ready and Byrnes is exhibit A. Bytel is arguably even less ready to take on men at the elite level and through no fault of his own will stuggle to develop adequately to become AFL ready this season due to there being no feeder comp. Scratch matches don't cut it.

Nevertheless, I expect Bytel is going to play and like Byrnes, in a game we will win. So tanking won't come into it.

Hopefully, as you know many more don't make it than do. There is no greater joy for me than watching a player establish themselves and if they make it at AFL level then good on them. I do wonder though if the cheerleading for these two young boys is more about an agenda about Sebby and a past coach. Because the demands for these two to play without having proven themselves at Sandy has been perplexing.

Maybe, but I think Battle might be the one that Seb is replaced by. If Hannerbery was fit there would be no argument. It more about accountability now, than ever before. Ratten isn't a fool. Seb has been given more than enough time to redeem his horror run. It's really hard to undo a lack of skill. Particularly when your new role is more about pressure and less about running loose.

When was he given a new role, I thought he spent summer training a different style which was to use shorter kicks, that's not a new role. And isn't every player required to apply pressure, what is this pressure role you speak of?

He isn't covering anything like the kilometres he did in his B&F years. His wings have been clipped and his impact has been dampened. The coaches know that the ball in his hands isn't constructive enough. He now has to refine his skills and control his physical attempts to shake pressure and he can't do it.

He's just been asked to swim within the flags, plenty a very good player who had to work within his kicking range.

[CQ SAINT]

I don’t think anyone is arguing that Seb is clearly top 22 nor that his performance, even down on form, is markedly better than what that of a potential young replacement such as Byrnes/Bytel would be.

That’s not the discussion.

The flip side of that equation is that Ross’ form is WAY down compared to what we know he’s capable of.
At a snap shot, he’s getting to less contests, he’s winning less ball and his disposal has deteriorated markedly. And we’re not talking about rushers kicks under pressure, his handballs, short kicks etc are quite often landing at his team mates feet and they’re getting crunched having to compensate for it...
Have a look at Kent getting injured on the W/E

The question is how to circuit break this because Ross is a good player and quite frankly... we need him to be playing closer to his peak if we’re to be a serious threat this season.

With no reserves... I don’t see a lot of options other than either a complete role change or a rest for a week or 2.

So yes, yes, no, no

However, if you were to replace him with a guy like Bytel or Byrnes... you couldn’t do so with a reasonable expectation that these rookies would come in and match/exceed the performance of the close to 10 year, 150 game + seasoned, tough mid.
You’d do it with the goal of working on developing the rookies’ games with a view of them improving/possibly overtaking Ross or someone else long term.

The question is... is that gamble worth it.

My answer to this has always been yes.
It’s the difference between an Armitage or Steven being ready to play in an 09/10 grand final versus playing an out of form Eddy, McQualter, or out of position Dempster

And the far greater risk by a long long stretch is to feed a player to the sharks by playing him before he's ready and Byrnes is exhibit A. Bytel is arguably even less ready to take on men at the elite level and through no fault of his own will stuggle to develop adequately to become AFL ready this season due to there being no feeder comp. Scratch matches don't cut it.

Nevertheless, I expect Bytel is going to play and like Byrnes, in a game we will win. So tanking won't come into it.

Hopefully, as you know many more don't make it than do. There is no greater joy for me than watching a player establish themselves and if they make it at AFL level then good on them. I do wonder though if the cheerleading for these two young boys is more about an agenda about Sebby and a past coach. Because the demands for these two to play without having proven themselves at Sandy has been perplexing.

Maybe, but I think Battle might be the one that Seb is replaced by. If Hannerbery was fit there would be no argument. It more about accountability now, than ever before. Ratten isn't a fool. Seb has been given more than enough time to redeem his horror run. It's really hard to undo a lack of skill. Particularly when your new role is more about pressure and less about running loose.

When was he given a new role, I thought he spent summer training a different style which was to use shorter kicks, that's not a new role. And isn't every player required to apply pressure, what is this pressure role you speak of?

He isn't covering anything like the kilometres he did in his B&F years. His wings have been clipped and his impact has been dampened. The coaches know that the ball in his hands isn't constructive enough. He now has to refine his skills and control his physical attempts to shake pressure and he can't do it.

He's just been asked to swim within the flags, plenty a very good player who had to work within his kicking range.

Ok. No worries. He's not getting as much ball because he is kicking shorter and his efficiency is going to s*** because he is kicking shorter and his grubber handpasses arent because he is under pressure, its because they are more effective.
He was an A grade accumulator playing with the stats game with C grade skills. Now he is just a C grader.