Who has more upside?

older saint · Sun 26 Sep 2010 10:59am

The morning after the day before and trying to work out whether we will look back as yesterday as a ste towards glory or a missed chance never to be gotten back. I have tried to break it down in to areas and love your comments:

Players who can get better-(considering pressure of occassion)

StKilda: Dal Santo to me is the big one really a non factor almost playing not to hurt an injury in the 1st half. The rest for us are really 2nd and 3rd teir players - Peake, Eddy,

Coll: Didak to me was well held by Demster and that is a worry. Swan had a very quiet 2nd half , thank to Ray but that is concerning.Pendelbry was quiet also but jones did that which is a little different.

Injuries: Gardiner is the big one. McEvoy comes in but is a downgrade. No other obvious ones. If Gram played yesterday he will play next week.

Pendelbry was sore but will be ok same for wellingham.

Mental Strength: I think this is where we have the advantage. Collingwood have not faced the adversity that StKilda has and may well feel they lost this game more than the saints. More inside 0's scoring shots and time in the lead. Collingwood seemed to panic towards the end a little also.

Fitness: Hard to tell we were finishnig over them no doubt and extra time i think we win.

Changes: Presti , Lockeyer big shows, Mcevoy for Gardy and perhaps a Geary or Armitage as an extra mid runner?

Surprises: Not sure what is left - Gilbert went forward which worked but cannot see it working again. Collingwood very rarely change their structures.

I would like to think we can make the adjustments required to play 4 quarters of football which is what is required to win . I think saints played 2 3/4. Collingwood start like a sprinter and we were ablet o take their best shots in first quarter and start of 2nd quarter. The 50 cost us momentum for the rest of the quarter. Great confidence should be taken from the fact that if the game is on Saints terms Colingwood cannot match us, however if it is allowed to play on their terms Saints are in trouble.

Early tip : Saints by 17

eppo67 · Post: # 999904Post **eppo67** » Sun 26 Sep 2010 11:05am

I dont think Big Mac is a downgrade sorry. Very mobile and made for the big MCG and then resting down fwd. to give Roo a hand instead of Roo being only tall target indside 50 for the last half.

Dont forget we played a man down yesterday for 2/3 of the game. The mobile Mac is a real bonus ++ IMO.
Gilbert only went fwd. b/c we were a man down and Kosi had to go into the Ruck for good.

Big Mac will be coming in next week and basically nobody out for him (ie that is b/c Gardi basically didn't play for the last 2/3 of the game).
What a Major +++!!

The Saintsational Man · Sun 26 Sep 2010 11:06am

Ross has them worked out, so I'm fairly confident if we play like we did in the 2nd half for the whole game this Saturday, we'd be looking at a 5+ goal margin.

4ever_saint · Sun 26 Sep 2010 11:11am

Collingwood are advantaged in Recovery.
(Younger bodies, fresher legs)

St Kilda are advantaged in Confidence.
(They threw everything they had at us and we managed to turn around a 24 point deficit and keep them to 2 goals in the second half)

Another very interesting point is that Jolly was stuffed in the last QTR, hopefully Big Ben can dominate the ruck because of the week off. Also would expect Riewoldt to have more influence IMO

SainterK · Post: # 999908Post **SainterK** » Sun 26 Sep 2010 11:12am

Any other side, any other players, and you would ask can Lenny and Goddard play that kind of game again....but it must remembered, that they are Lenny and Goddard, and of course they will.

Dal improved in the second half, as Ross said in the press conference, once he 'let himself go' so he will be better for the run.

Nick was very good, but I believe will rate himself very harshly, and play a blinder next week.

Schneider showed glimpses, think both our smalls actually learned how to get the better of their opponents towards the end.

Eddy, Milne and Peake can all improve.

We won't be carrying injuries next week, and be one down on the bench.

Flipside

Let's hope that the Swans, Didaks, Beams and Pendleburys don't learn to get the better of theirs, because they were very well held.

All their lowest disposal getters were their kids, will they be better for the run, or has the GF just exposed they are not quite ready for that kind of intensity yet...and will Mick (hopefully) turn back to their old faithfuls like Medhurst and Lockyer

Thinline · Post: # 999914Post **Thinline** » Sun 26 Sep 2010 11:22am

4ever_saint wrote:Collingwood are advantaged in Recovery.
(Younger bodies, fresher legs)

St Kilda are advantaged in Confidence.
(They threw everything they had at us and we managed to turn around a 24 point deficit and keep them to 2 goals in the second half)

Another very interesting point is that Jolly was stuffed in the last QTR, hopefully Big Ben can dominate the ruck because of the week off. Also would expect Riewoldt to have more influence IMO

The fresher legs theory is a bit of a furphy. Seasoned bodies (and heads) recover quicker.

Mcevoy in will be a big plus. Mobile, rested and fit.

Gram is gone. He cant give his best. He should miss IMO.

ralphsmith · Sun 26 Sep 2010 11:26am

Riewoldt was good, but he needs to be much better. Much better. He needs to lift massively next week.

The Saintsational Man · Sun 26 Sep 2010 11:29am

Thinline wrote:
4ever_saint wrote:Collingwood are advantaged in Recovery.
(Younger bodies, fresher legs)

St Kilda are advantaged in Confidence.
(They threw everything they had at us and we managed to turn around a 24 point deficit and keep them to 2 goals in the second half)

Another very interesting point is that Jolly was stuffed in the last QTR, hopefully Big Ben can dominate the ruck because of the week off. Also would expect Riewoldt to have more influence IMO
The fresher legs theory is a bit of a furphy. Seasoned bodies (and heads) recover quicker.

Mcevoy in will be a big plus. Mobile, rested and fit.

Gram is gone. He cant give his best. He should miss IMO.

100% agree, hopefully Geary gets the call up.

maverick · Post: # 999926Post **maverick** » Sun 26 Sep 2010 11:31am

The Saintsational Man wrote:
Thinline wrote:
4ever_saint wrote:Collingwood are advantaged in Recovery.
(Younger bodies, fresher legs)

St Kilda are advantaged in Confidence.
(They threw everything they had at us and we managed to turn around a 24 point deficit and keep them to 2 goals in the second half)

Another very interesting point is that Jolly was stuffed in the last QTR, hopefully Big Ben can dominate the ruck because of the week off. Also would expect Riewoldt to have more influence IMO
The fresher legs theory is a bit of a furphy. Seasoned bodies (and heads) recover quicker.

Mcevoy in will be a big plus. Mobile, rested and fit.

Gram is gone. He cant give his best. He should miss IMO.
100% agree, hopefully Geary gets the call up.

His effort in virtually the last play of the game would argue that point
He was OK, better than I think Geary could be, at this stage of Geary's career.

St. Luke · Post: # 999933Post **St. Luke** » Sun 26 Sep 2010 11:38am

Having big McEvoy back is definately a bonus! He'll play out of his skin!! A golden opportunity!

The damage to the confidence of Collingwood knowing they were unable to shake us is another huge plus!!!

It was clear for most parts of the game we were over-using the ball! Something we seemed to rectify after the 3/4 break!

We looked dangerous after 1/2 time! Our confidence should be sky-high!

3rd generation saint · Sun 26 Sep 2010 11:42am

The question for them is can they hold Roo two weeks in a row.
He could rip them apart next week.

older saint · Sun 26 Sep 2010 11:54am

Good points people. Couple other thoughts:

roo- played well butnot great, however i cannot recall a key forward (big) playing a big grandfinal game 9exclude blow outs) since Brereton. Carey and Brown were only good so do not expect too much.

Mcevoy will help but lets be real his best this year has beenservicable and improving, lets expect only that and not a world beater as he is being talked up to be.
Extra man on the bench a big help. Davis plays could be a plus also (lol).

Interesting young verse hard bodies for recovery - i will go with hard everytime.

bigred · Post: # 999955Post **bigred** » Sun 26 Sep 2010 11:59am

Roo was savagely limited by the delivery.

We really, really need him to have a better game.

Thinline · Post: # 999958Post **Thinline** » Sun 26 Sep 2010 12:00pm

older saint wrote:Good points people. Couple other thoughts:

roo- played well butnot great, however i cannot recall a key forward (big) playing a big grandfinal game 9exclude blow outs) since Brereton. Carey and Brown were only good so do not expect too much.

Mcevoy will help but lets be real his best this year has beenservicable and improving, lets expect only that and not a world beater as he is being talked up to be.
Extra man on the bench a big help. Davis plays could be a plus also (lol).

Interesting young verse hard bodies for recovery - i will go with hard everytime.

Mcevoys not being over rated at all IMO . His second and third efforts are fantastic and will be critical.

markp · Post: # 999960Post **markp** » Sun 26 Sep 2010 12:01pm

They killed us with their frantic run in the first 20 minutes, kicking 4 of their 9 goals in that period.

Our defensive grind slowly gained us the ascendancy, and we wore them down, holding them to just 2 goals in the second half.

After what both teams went through yesterday, surely the pies' legs and run will be at least marginally less potent next week... but our defensive grind, physical toughness and mental toughness will not.

Saints by 30 next week!

matrix · Post: # 999975Post **matrix** » Sun 26 Sep 2010 12:13pm

Thinline wrote:
4ever_saint wrote:Collingwood are advantaged in Recovery.
(Younger bodies, fresher legs)

St Kilda are advantaged in Confidence.
(They threw everything they had at us and we managed to turn around a 24 point deficit and keep them to 2 goals in the second half)

Another very interesting point is that Jolly was stuffed in the last QTR, hopefully Big Ben can dominate the ruck because of the week off. Also would expect Riewoldt to have more influence IMO
The fresher legs theory is a bit of a furphy. Seasoned bodies (and heads) recover quicker.

Mcevoy in will be a big plus. Mobile, rested and fit.

Gram is gone. He cant give his best. He should miss IMO.

agree on grammy
he tackled hard and did a few one percenters well and did try, but not once did i see him in space going for a gallop
i dont think he can stride out
hopefully he pulls up alright and did nothing more to put him back

but i dont like his chances

saintnick12 · Sun 26 Sep 2010 12:37pm

Grammy did some good things.
When Leon Davis kicked that goal he had the opportunity to tackle but couldn't stick it cos he didn't have the range of movement. Looked limited. Ross has put the acid on both Gram and DalSanto to be better next week.

lefty · Post: # 1000043Post **lefty** » Sun 26 Sep 2010 12:58pm

I think Gram won't play next week, he's not right, Geary might get his chance.

Stanley/McEvoy could play ruck or forward to stretch Collingwood. Stanley is fast, which can favour him.

I think Armatige should play, his hard tackles will help, along with the fact that he is fresh. His knee should be feeling good too

We got smashed in the midfield for a lot of the game, so I except something in the midfield to change or alter.

Moods · Post: # 1000208Post **Moods** » Sun 26 Sep 2010 2:40pm

ralphsmith wrote:Riewoldt was good, but he needs to be much better. Much better. He needs to lift massively next week.

What a load of crap.

Rooey was great. Kicked 2 goals out of 10 and was superb when we needed him. Name me one key forward who has dominated a tight GF in the past 20 years? The talk about how we needed Rooey to dominate to win the game was ridiculous. All we needed from Roo was for him to be himself. He was.

bigcarl · Post: # 1000218Post **bigcarl** » Sun 26 Sep 2010 2:59pm

Moods wrote:Rooey was great. Kicked 2 goals out of 10 and was superb when we needed him. Name me one key forward who has dominated a tight GF in the past 20 years? The talk about how we needed Rooey to dominate to win the game was ridiculous. All we needed from Roo was for him to be himself. He was.

he was good and, hopefully, he and the other forwards will get 1) better delivery and 2) more inside 50s on saturday,

the boys were magnificent yesterday, but we can improve and should aim to.

AnythingsPossibleSaints · Sun 26 Sep 2010 3:09pm

One major thing in our advantage next week is that Collingwood went into the game yesterday with massive momentum and started the game as such. Next week it's hard to see them having anywhere near as much momentum. (Or their fans being as pumped up).
Going into yesterday they'd just walloped Geelong and the Bulldogs in their last two games and were chock-full of confidence, but next week they'll be going in after just managing a draw against us, after blowing a huge chance to win the flag. This will have burst their bubble in a big way and taken away a lot of their confidence/momentum.
Our guys also didn't handle that initial burst yesterday well at all, and by the time we got our composure we were 3 goals down. It's highly unlikely the same will happen next week. Collingwood also kicked only 5 goals after that initial 15 minute burst, too. So when we got out s*** together, we "kept them" to 5 goals in 3 and a half quarters.
Doesn't mean we're certain to win next week, but is in our favour, IMO.

mohannair · Post: # 1000229Post **mohannair** » Sun 26 Sep 2010 3:09pm

ralphsmith wrote:Riewoldt was good, but he needs to be much better. Much better. He needs to lift massively next week.

Its not Roey fault, the ball delivery was very limited. Yet he tried his best, most of the kicks went above his head & also since Kosi had to ruck for more that we thought (Gardi being down) the forward 50 had only Roey which helped their defence to combine really well.

bigcarl · Post: # 1000232Post **bigcarl** » Sun 26 Sep 2010 3:12pm

AnythingsPossibleSaints wrote:One major thing in our advantage next week is that Collingwood went into the game yesterday with massive momentum and started the game as such. Next week it's hard to see them having anywhere near as much momentum. (Or their fans being as pumped up).
Going into yesterday they'd just walloped Geelong and the Bulldogs in their last two games and were chock-full of confidence, but next week they'll be going in after just managing a draw against us, after blowing a huge chance to win the flag. This will have burst their bubble in a big way and taken away a lot of their confidence/momentum.
Our guys also didn't handle that initial burst yesterday well at all, and by the time we got our composure we were 3 goals down. It's highly unlikely the same will happen next week. Collingwood also kicked only 5 goals after that initial 15 minute burst, too. So when we got out s*** together, we "kept them" to 5 goals in 3 and a half quarters.
Doesn't mean we're certain to win next week, but is in our favour, IMO.

I like your thinking

saint3d · Post: # 1000239Post **saint3d** » Sun 26 Sep 2010 3:19pm

Prestigiacomo and Lockyer in would be a win for us. I hope Davis did enough to keep his spot.

I think Peake is the player with the most potential improvement. Nerves seemed to get the better of him early with him falling over a lot and not standing the mark on Thomas. He settled eventually and I'd expect him to pick up where he left off.

saint75 · Post: # 1000240Post **saint75** » Sun 26 Sep 2010 3:20pm

saint3d wrote:Prestigiacomo and Lockyer in would be a win for us. I hope Davis did enough to keep his spot.

I think Peake is the player with the most potential improvement. Nerves seemed to get the better of him early with him falling over a lot and not standing the mark on Thomas. He settled eventually and I'd expect him to pick up where he left off.

I also can't see Dal and Grammy having as quiet a game as they did yesterday.