Why did we trade Luke Ball :s

[Sobraz]

Collingwood have been good this year, no doubt, but Ball has been pretty s***... After the first 5 rounds, many in the media were realising just how average he is, with some believing he would struggle to hold his spot in the pies team, as he did with us...

Now, whilst he has kept his position, he actually isnt playing good footy... He has major issues with his disposal, by hand and foot, and really is only a shoveler and tackler now..

Get over it, he is nothing.

[Spinner]

This decision has coem back to bite us. Why on earth would we trade Ball. His work in the contested situations would of really helped (still probably would of lost) but he is the type of player we are cryign out for. Apart from Lenny, we have no one who wants to go in.

Losing Ball was bad, but losing him for nothing was the kicker. We got arrogant, wouldnt deal with Collingwood who were offering draft picks for him, then lost him for nothing.

We are a disgrace. Rant over.

This is childish.

The club tried everything to keep Luke Ball. They offered him a contract - And refused to trade him when pick 30 was offered. Only a draft pick...Not picks.


Even still those picks would have been insignificant to the senior team for at least 3 years, if ever.

The only impact would have been Ball staying - Which he didnt. For more money and the same game time.

[meher baba]

Collingwood have been good this year, no doubt, but Ball has been pretty s***... After the first 5 rounds, many in the media were realising just how average he is, with some believing he would struggle to hold his spot in the pies team, as he did with us...

Now, whilst he has kept his position, he actually isnt playing good footy... He has major issues with his disposal, by hand and foot, and really is only a shoveler and tackler now..

Get over it, he is nothing.

He's not a superstar, but please keep it real. I thought he wasn't far off BOG today against the Blues. He's having his best year since at least 2006.

His style of play suits the Pies better than us ATM. Still, we'd certainly be a little bit better off if we'd kept him. And that might prove to have been important.

[johnpeterbudgefanclub]

Collingwood have been good this year, no doubt, but Ball has been pretty s***... After the first 5 rounds, many in the media were realising just how average he is, with some believing he would struggle to hold his spot in the pies team, as he did with us...

Now, whilst he has kept his position, he actually isnt playing good footy... He has major issues with his disposal, by hand and foot, and really is only a shoveler and tackler now..

Get over it, he is nothing.

Hmmmm. Were u sober when u posted this? Struggle to hold his spot? Pretty shite? He plays a role with the pies and is doing it sublime. Has released Swan, Pendlebury, Beams and co. Simple.

Racked up 28 lazy ones today. Yeah he goes ok.

[Buckets]

Collingwood have been good this year, no doubt, but Ball has been pretty s***... After the first 5 rounds, many in the media were realising just how average he is, with some believing he would struggle to hold his spot in the pies team, as he did with us...

Now, whilst he has kept his position, he actually isnt playing good footy... He has major issues with his disposal, by hand and foot, and really is only a shoveler and tackler now..

Get over it, he is nothing.

He's not a superstar, but please keep it real. I thought he wasn't far off BOG today against the Blues. He's having his best year since at least 2006.

His style of play suits the Pies better than us ATM. Still, we'd certainly be a little bit better off if we'd kept him. And that might prove to have been important.

But HE DIDNT want to stay! Simple as that.

[johnpeterbudgefanclub]

Collingwood have been good this year, no doubt, but Ball has been pretty s***... After the first 5 rounds, many in the media were realising just how average he is, with some believing he would struggle to hold his spot in the pies team, as he did with us...

Now, whilst he has kept his position, he actually isnt playing good footy... He has major issues with his disposal, by hand and foot, and really is only a shoveler and tackler now..

Get over it, he is nothing.

He's not a superstar, but please keep it real. I thought he wasn't far off BOG today against the Blues. He's having his best year since at least 2006.

His style of play suits the Pies better than us ATM. Still, we'd certainly be a little bit better off if we'd kept him. And that might prove to have been important.

But HE DIDNT want to stay! Simple as that.

Correct. No one can blame the St.Kilda admin for playing hard ball. Retrospect is an amazing thing. At the end of the day once a player wants to leave what can one do? I guess a draft pick or player would have been handy.

[Buckets]

Collingwood have been good this year, no doubt, but Ball has been pretty s***... After the first 5 rounds, many in the media were realising just how average he is, with some believing he would struggle to hold his spot in the pies team, as he did with us...

Now, whilst he has kept his position, he actually isnt playing good footy... He has major issues with his disposal, by hand and foot, and really is only a shoveler and tackler now..

Get over it, he is nothing.

He's not a superstar, but please keep it real. I thought he wasn't far off BOG today against the Blues. He's having his best year since at least 2006.

His style of play suits the Pies better than us ATM. Still, we'd certainly be a little bit better off if we'd kept him. And that might prove to have been important.

But HE DIDNT want to stay! Simple as that.

Correct. No one can blame the St.Kilda admin for playing hard ball. Retrospect is an amazing thing. At the end of the day once a player wants to leave what can one do? I guess a draft pick or player would have been handy.

Thing is the Pies wanted to give pick 30 or a fringe player. The guy that the Pies picked up after Ball, they claimed they were going to use pick 30 for anyway. And he has yet to get a Senior call-up.
Yes hindsight is a fantastic thing. The thing that frustrates me is the fact that sooooo many people like to think that Ball wanted to stay and that is so far off the mark it isnt funny. He left because he thought it was going to be too hard to make the 22 week in week out. Thems the facts.

[johnpeterbudgefanclub]

Collingwood have been good this year, no doubt, but Ball has been pretty s***... After the first 5 rounds, many in the media were realising just how average he is, with some believing he would struggle to hold his spot in the pies team, as he did with us...

Now, whilst he has kept his position, he actually isnt playing good footy... He has major issues with his disposal, by hand and foot, and really is only a shoveler and tackler now..

Get over it, he is nothing.

He's not a superstar, but please keep it real. I thought he wasn't far off BOG today against the Blues. He's having his best year since at least 2006.

His style of play suits the Pies better than us ATM. Still, we'd certainly be a little bit better off if we'd kept him. And that might prove to have been important.

But HE DIDNT want to stay! Simple as that.

Correct. No one can blame the St.Kilda admin for playing hard ball. Retrospect is an amazing thing. At the end of the day once a player wants to leave what can one do? I guess a draft pick or player would have been handy.

Thing is the Pies wanted to give pick 30 or a fringe player. The guy that the Pies picked up after Ball, they claimed they were going to use pick 30 for anyway. And he has yet to get a Senior call-up.
Yes hindsight is a fantastic thing. The thing that frustrates me is the fact that sooooo many people like to think that Ball wanted to stay and that is so far off the mark it isnt funny. He left because he thought it was going to be too hard to make the 22 week in week out. Thems the facts.

Fair analogy. Interesting though re: Ben Sinclair as yes he hasn't played a senior game yet but is one they have pencilled in as a cert to play 1's. Been hard given the successes of the AFL side. The pies offered up Goldsack for memory and in hindsight given the injury to Maxwell midyear has been a blessing he was kept as he was one they really didnt want to part with.

[Beej]

He left because he thought it was going to be too hard to make the 22 week in week out. Thems the facts.

Exactly, and that is why Ball felt he had lost the support of the coach.

We offered him a contract because, still, Luke Ball is better than no Luke Ball but we were hardly pulling out all the stops to keep him.

If Lyon thought Ball was an integral part of his plans, he would still be here IMO.

Last year I wasn't batting an eyelid when he was getting dropped. I didn't think he was worth his spot in the side but, watching him now for Collingwood, I realise he's doing exactly the same thing as he was doing last year and a footballer like him and a personality like his is invaluable to a side. Every successful side needs a "Luke Ball" and they don't grow on trees.

You don't know what you got till it's gone.

[saint3d]

This argument would have merit if the team was playing as well as it could and still not getting the job done.

If the majority of the team is out of form no single player can make the difference.

[SteveStevens66]

Every successful side needs a "Luke Ball" and they don't grow on trees.

Please tell us, who is Geelong's "can't kick, can't run" Luke Ball? Speaking of successful sides I don't recall who the Luke Ball was in the great three-time-Premiership Brisbane team either. Please enlighten us.

[Beej]

Every successful side needs a "Luke Ball" and they don't grow on trees.

Please tell us, who is Geelong's "can't kick, can't run" Luke Ball? Speaking of successful sides I don't recall who the Luke Ball was in the great three-time-Premiership Brisbane team either. Please enlighten us.

You disappoint me my fellow Spurs man.

Firstly, I'm not suggesting every side needs a player who can't run and can't kick, that's ridiculous, and to suggest that Ball flat out can't run and can't kick is probably just as ridiculous.

He has more natural ability, talent and football smarts than Eddy, Armitage, Jones, Peake and Geary put together.

What I was suggesting is that every side requires footballers who lead by example. Footballers who love to compete, who never hide, never shirk.
Footballers who earn the respect of his teammates week in week out by approaching each contest like their life depended on it. Footballers who hate to lose more than they love to win. Footballers who the rookies will look up to. It's Ball's mentality that sets him apart.

The more footballers on a club's list with this ethereal quality, the more successful that club will be.

However, if you're able to simply class Ball as a footballer who "can't run, can't kick", then I'm guessing you don't appreciate or understand this
vital aspect of footy.

[meher baba]

Collingwood have been good this year, no doubt, but Ball has been pretty s***... After the first 5 rounds, many in the media were realising just how average he is, with some believing he would struggle to hold his spot in the pies team, as he did with us...

Now, whilst he has kept his position, he actually isnt playing good footy... He has major issues with his disposal, by hand and foot, and really is only a shoveler and tackler now..

Get over it, he is nothing.

He's not a superstar, but please keep it real. I thought he wasn't far off BOG today against the Blues. He's having his best year since at least 2006.

His style of play suits the Pies better than us ATM. Still, we'd certainly be a little bit better off if we'd kept him. And that might prove to have been important.

But HE DIDNT want to stay! Simple as that.

As black and white as that, huh? Of course, you've personally spoken to
him, his manager, the club, etc. You know for sure that there's absolutely no truth in the story that the club was already making overtures to trade LB in the second half of 2009?

Of course we could have kept him. It would cost a relatively small amount of extra $$$ (but, of couse, we'd earmarked those $$$ for Lovett, alas) as well as possibly Ross Lyon eating some humble pie about the crap treatment dished out to Ball during the GF.

In the end, a resolution couldn't be reached. But please don't tell me we couldn't have kept him if we had really wanted hin to stay. In the end, Ball left under the impression that Lyon and the club didn't rate him as a quality AFL player. On the evidence of this forum, that view seems to be widely shared by the fans.

But he is a quality AFL player and he has demonstrated that week-in, week-out at the Pies. And he still would be useful to us. Only at the margins, sure. But we only lost the 2009 GF by the narrowest of margins

But it's done and dusted now.

BTW, I don't think Goldsack would have been much help to us. An ok player, but we've got plenty of similar.

[SydneySainter]

Collingwood have been good this year, no doubt, but Ball has been pretty s***... After the first 5 rounds, many in the media were realising just how average he is, with some believing he would struggle to hold his spot in the pies team, as he did with us...

Now, whilst he has kept his position, he actually isnt playing good footy... He has major issues with his disposal, by hand and foot, and really is only a shoveler and tackler now..

Get over it, he is nothing.

He's not a superstar, but please keep it real. I thought he wasn't far off BOG today against the Blues. He's having his best year since at least 2006.

His style of play suits the Pies better than us ATM. Still, we'd certainly be a little bit better off if we'd kept him. And that might prove to have been important.

But HE DIDNT want to stay! Simple as that.

Correct. No one can blame the St.Kilda admin for playing hard ball. Retrospect is an amazing thing. At the end of the day once a player wants to leave what can one do? I guess a draft pick or player would have been handy.

Thing is the Pies wanted to give pick 30 or a fringe player. The guy that the Pies picked up after Ball, they claimed they were going to use pick 30 for anyway. And he has yet to get a Senior call-up.
Yes hindsight is a fantastic thing. The thing that frustrates me is the fact that sooooo many people like to think that Ball wanted to stay and that is so far off the mark it isnt funny. He left because he thought it was going to be too hard to make the 22 week in week out. Thems the facts.

Fair analogy. Interesting though re: Ben Sinclair as yes he hasn't played a senior game yet but is one they have pencilled in as a cert to play 1's. Been hard given the successes of the AFL side. The pies offered up Goldsack for memory and in hindsight given the injury to Maxwell midyear has been a blessing he was kept as he was one they really didnt want to part with.

According to Malthouse, it was the Saints who wanted pick 30 and Goldsack, but that was apparently too much to ask in their books. Worthy of 500k a year, but a second round pick and a promising fringe player, dreaming...

From memory, Pies offer was either pick 30 and Wellingham or pick 25 (which you would get if Wellingham and pick 30 was trading to the North, which I assume was given a green light). In hindsight, Saints lost and probably should have just swallowed their pride and taken pick 25. Could have got a gun, could have got a dud. But from the clubs perspective, the last thing they wanted was to be setting precedents that they were happy to do 'bargain' trades. Last thing the club needs is Goddard wanted a trade to Carlton (and ONLY Carlton) and ends up walking for pick 37, cause it's the best deal we'll get.

[rodgerfox]

Ball is not a good fit at St.Kilda. Can't kick can't run.

I'd say that makes him a perfect fit.

[saintsRrising]

, Saints lost and probably should have just swallowed their pride and taken pick 25. Could have got a gun, .

IIRC Saints asked the Pies to obtain a pick 25 so that it could be on-traded with North involved (ie Wellingham to Kangas to get the 25 to be swapped to the Dogs), but with the end result that Everitt would land at the Saints.

Pies were not willing though.

[SteveStevens66]

Every successful side needs a "Luke Ball" and they don't grow on trees.

Please tell us, who is Geelong's "can't kick, can't run" Luke Ball? Speaking of successful sides I don't recall who the Luke Ball was in the great three-time-Premiership Brisbane team either. Please enlighten us.

You disappoint me my fellow Spurs man.

Firstly, I'm not suggesting every side needs a player who can't run and can't kick, that's ridiculous, and to suggest that Ball flat out can't run and can't kick is probably just as ridiculous.

He has more natural ability, talent and football smarts than Eddy, Armitage, Jones, Peake and Geary put together.

What I was suggesting is that every side requires footballers who lead by example. Footballers who love to compete, who never hide, never shirk.
Footballers who earn the respect of his teammates week in week out by approaching each contest like their life depended on it. Footballers who hate to lose more than they love to win. Footballers who the rookies will look up to. It's Ball's mentality that sets him apart.

The more footballers on a club's list with this ethereal quality, the more successful that club will be.

However, if you're able to simply class Ball as a footballer who "can't run, can't kick", then I'm guessing you don't appreciate or understand this
vital aspect of footy.

Sorry to disappoint Beej. I shouldn't have been so facetious. It was the frustration and disappointment of what is being dished up to us plus the fact that Ball is now at that revolting club, which also happens to be on top of the ladder. It all got to me.

Of course you are right, he "love to compete,...never hide, never shirk." Every team needs players like that. But if they have those attributes AND they are skillful then they are worth gold. Ball doesn't have the skills and we were over-paying for what he brought to us. I wasn't sorry to see him go, only to see him go for nothing.

"Audere est Facere!"

[SydneySainter]

, Saints lost and probably should have just swallowed their pride and taken pick 25. Could have got a gun, .

IIRC Saints asked the Pies to obtain a pick 25 so that it could be on-traded with North involved (ie Wellingham to Kangas to get the 25 to be swapped to the Dogs), but with the end result that Everitt would land at the Saints.

Pies were not willing though.

We needed pick 21 to land Everitt, to which the Pies apparently tried to obtain from North but they didn't rate pick 30 and Wellingham as good enough compensation. At least I think that's the details.

Whatever they are, Pies didn't trade because they were determined to get the better end of the deal and the Saints didn't want a premiership rival to take an arm and give a pinkie finger in return. Both teams held their ground, gambled and we lost. Whatever hindsight says we should have done, it happens.

[saintsRrising]

FACT: There is salary cap

FACT: Ball wanted more $$$$$ than he was worth

FACT: Saints were a GF team last year and so hence under huge salary cap pressure.


So you can cut it and dice it anyway you wish...but as soon as Ball committed to wanting more than he was worth he was always gone.

[rodgerfox]

FACT: There is salary cap

FACT: Ball wanted more $$$$$ than he was worth

FACT: Saints were a GF team last year and so hence under huge salary cap pressure.


So you can cut it and dice it anyway you wish...but as soon as Ball committed to wanting more than he was worth he was always gone.

Sounds like the 'list manager' dropped the ball. Excuse the pun.

[rodgerfox]

FACT: Ball wanted more $$$$$ than he was worth

Really? Anything to support this "FACT"?

[saintsRrising]

FACT: There is salary cap

FACT: Ball wanted more $$$$$ than he was worth

FACT: Saints were a GF team last year and so hence under huge salary cap pressure.


So you can cut it and dice it anyway you wish...but as soon as Ball committed to wanting more than he was worth he was always gone.

Sounds like the 'list manager' dropped the ball. Excuse the pun.

Sounds more like a player deciding to put self before mates.

[Spinner]

FACT: There is salary cap

FACT: Ball wanted more $$$$$ than he was worth

FACT: Saints were a GF team last year and so hence under huge salary cap pressure.


So you can cut it and dice it anyway you wish...but as soon as Ball committed to wanting more than he was worth he was always gone.

Sounds like the 'list manager' dropped the ball. Excuse the pun.

Sounds like the list manager doing his job and not attempting to overpay players in fear they will leave...

[The Fireman]

mercenary rat and a shame he chose the least reputable club in the league, he now plays alongside vermon like Didak...his choice which says a lot about Ball.

[meher baba]

FACT: There is salary cap

FACT: Ball wanted more $$$$$ than he was worth

FACT: Saints were a GF team last year and so hence under huge salary cap pressure.


So you can cut it and dice it anyway you wish...but as soon as Ball committed to wanting more than he was worth he was always gone.

Yet we had enough room left in our cap to offer a motza to Andrew Lovett.

So, sorry, I'm still not convinced by your "fact"

I reckon the real facts are that the powers that be at the club wanted Lovett more than they wanted Ball. They offered Ball all that they could,
Ball wanted a couple of $100k more over 3 years and, perhaps more importantly, some sort of guarantee about game time that they weren't prepared to give.

They knew they were taking a significant risk by letting Ball and our first round pick go in exchange for Lovett.

The risk was supposedly mitigated by our recruiting Walsh. Maybe this will be true in the long-run, but probably not this year.

Fair enough to them: they took a risk to try to get a flag. So did the Pies in recruiting Ball and Jolly. Right now the Pies brains trust look like geniuses and we look like goofs. But the season isn't over yet

But it's no good pretending that we couldn't have kept Ball if we'd really wanted to and had made a bit of an effort. Even the club hasn't made that claim