Plugger Legend

[rodgerfox]

The sad thing is, that Tony Lockett would never have pulled on a boot in today's AFL.

Nor would have Greg Williams, and many other legends of the sport.

We just won't see dudes like him anymore.

i disagree. both would be champions and dominate in today's game.

Yes must agree again. The only thing Plugger lacked for todays footy is fitness. Who is to say if he came up through the program now he wouldnt get fit. Williams like when he first tried to play way back in 1881 may struggle but pure ball winning would eventually see him drafted.

See above.

Neither would have made the first cut - even if they wanted to come back for the second session (I highly Plugger would have) they may not have been invited back if they didn't run certain times.

[plugger66]

The sad thing is, that Tony Lockett would never have pulled on a boot in today's AFL.

Nor would have Greg Williams, and many other legends of the sport.

We just won't see dudes like him anymore.

i disagree. both would be champions and dominate in today's game.

Neither would have got through the U18 comp.

When I was invited down to the Central Dragons several years ago, the very first thing they did was run every guy there until they spewed and/or collapsed.

This meant that 50% never returned, and many many more were told not to come back. They basically made the first and second cuts based purely and simply on physical ability.

Brilliantly talented kids who had more football ability in their scrotum than 90% of the guys there, never made it past the first training session.

You would have no idea how there mind may have worked had they been brought up in 2000's. Locket spewed before every game but still kept playing. You are basing things on 1980's times. That is like saying the Doc wouldnt play. We know he wouldnt play CHF but he may have got fitter and played as a HFF on baller.

[Thinline]

The sad thing is, that Tony Lockett would never have pulled on a boot in today's AFL.

Nor would have Greg Williams, and many other legends of the sport.

We just won't see dudes like him anymore.

i disagree. both would be champions and dominate in today's game.

Yes must agree again. The only thing Plugger lacked for todays footy is fitness. Who is to say if he came up through the program now he wouldnt get fit. Williams like when he first tried to play way back in 1881 may struggle but pure ball winning would eventually see him drafted.

See above.

Neither would have made the first cut - even if they wanted to come back for the second session (I highly Plugger would have) they may not have been invited back if they didn't run certain times.

With respect re Plugger that's nonsense. His explosive speed off the mark, strength, size and accuracy would have recruiters creaming their jocks from the get go. He was a freak. You can build a team around a freak. We do with Riewoldt. Geelong do with Ablett. Brisbane do with Brown. And if Brown runs a 7 minute benchmark 2km, then, well, so do I (not)...

[rodgerfox]

The sad thing is, that Tony Lockett would never have pulled on a boot in today's AFL.

Nor would have Greg Williams, and many other legends of the sport.

We just won't see dudes like him anymore.

i disagree. both would be champions and dominate in today's game.

Neither would have got through the U18 comp.

When I was invited down to the Central Dragons several years ago, the very first thing they did was run every guy there until they spewed and/or collapsed.

This meant that 50% never returned, and many many more were told not to come back. They basically made the first and second cuts based purely and simply on physical ability.

Brilliantly talented kids who had more football ability in their scrotum than 90% of the guys there, never made it past the first training session.

You would have no idea how there mind may have worked had they been brought up in 2000's. Locket spewed before every game but still kept playing.

True.

However it was common knowledge that training wasn't his favourite thing in the world.

I was such a tragic footy kid that I used to go down to training every night and help Kenny Sheldon collect the footies and generally tag all the players. I got to know a few of them and was a genuine little groupie kid. Plugger was my hero, and I sued to watch closely.

Plugger used to rock up with his hair messed up like he'd just woken up, then during the warm up laps he'd run about 20m inside the playing group so he only ended up running about half as far as everyone else!

Even as a star, mature player - he cut corners at training in a fitness sense.

[bigcarl]

The sad thing is, that Tony Lockett would never have pulled on a boot in today's AFL.

Nor would have Greg Williams, and many other legends of the sport.

We just won't see dudes like him anymore.

i disagree. both would be champions and dominate in today's game.

Neither would have got through the U18 comp.

When I was invited down to the Central Dragons several years ago, the very first thing they did was run every guy there until they spewed and/or collapsed.

This meant that 50% never returned, and many many more were told not to come back. They basically made the first and second cuts based purely and simply on physical ability.

Brilliantly talented kids who had more football ability in their scrotum than 90% of the guys there, never made it past the first training session.

They would have made an exception for Lockett, who was an outstanding junior prospect.

We got him only because Ballarat was zoned to us. Today he would be a No. 1 draft pick, with every club aware of his enormous potential.

They'd all turn a blind eye to his beep test purely because of his raw talent.

As for Williams, I actually saw him play for Golden Square a few times in Bendigo when he was a kid. Best on ground every week.

No smart talent scout would overlook him. They would look past his vertical leap stats to get him though.

[plugger66]

The sad thing is, that Tony Lockett would never have pulled on a boot in today's AFL.

Nor would have Greg Williams, and many other legends of the sport.

We just won't see dudes like him anymore.

i disagree. both would be champions and dominate in today's game.

Neither would have got through the U18 comp.

When I was invited down to the Central Dragons several years ago, the very first thing they did was run every guy there until they spewed and/or collapsed.

This meant that 50% never returned, and many many more were told not to come back. They basically made the first and second cuts based purely and simply on physical ability.

Brilliantly talented kids who had more football ability in their scrotum than 90% of the guys there, never made it past the first training session.

You would have no idea how there mind may have worked had they been brought up in 2000's. Locket spewed before every game but still kept playing.

True.

However it was common knowledge that training wasn't his favourite thing in the world.

I was such a tragic footy kid that I used to go down to training every night and help Kenny Sheldon collect the footies and generally tag all the players.

Plugger used to rock up with his hair messed up like he'd just woken up, then during the warm up laps he'd run about 20m inside the playing group so he only ended up running about half as far as everyone else!

Even as a star, mature player - he cut corners at training in a fitness sense.

That is based on how he trained back the. Under todays way of bringing players through the ranks he may have had a completely different attitude and as I said apart from fitness he is well suited to todays footy.

[satchmo]

It was amazing how many times they ran out of petrol or the car broke down on the way from Ballarat to training. Usually outside a pub.

[rodgerfox]

With respect re Plugger that's nonsense. His explosive speed off the mark, strength, size and accuracy would have recruiters creaming their jocks from the get go. He was a freak. You can build a team around a freak. We do with Riewoldt. Geelong do with Ablett. Brisbane do with Brown. And if Brown runs a 7 minute benchmark 2km, then, well, so do I (not)...

He had a horrible attitude.

He had a horrible attitude to his fitness until even late in his career. Consdiering guys get 2 weeks suspension from their clubs for being late to a 5am training session on a Sunday morning, it's very fair to suggest he would not have had an AFL career these days.

[bigcarl]

With respect re Plugger that's nonsense. His explosive speed off the mark, strength, size and accuracy would have recruiters creaming their jocks from the get go. He was a freak. You can build a team around a freak. We do with Riewoldt. Geelong do with Ablett. Brisbane do with Brown. And if Brown runs a 7 minute benchmark 2km, then, well, so do I (not)...

He had a horrible attitude.

He had a horrible attitude to his fitness until even late in his career. Consdiering guys get 2 weeks suspension from their clubs for being late to a 5am training session on a Sunday morning, it's very fair to suggest he would not have had an AFL career these days.

clubs make exceptions for guys who can actually play. it is nonsense to suggest he would not have an AFL career these days.

[rodgerfox]

That is based on how he trained back the. Under todays way of bringing players through the ranks he may have had a completely different attitude and as I said apart from fitness he is well suited to todays footy.

Maybe.

But that's a maybe. A very big maybe.

As he was, he would never have made it past the U18 comp. And if he did, he would have been given the arrse by the AFL club that picked him up within 6 weeks had he not walked away on his own accord.

[Thinline]

With respect re Plugger that's nonsense. His explosive speed off the mark, strength, size and accuracy would have recruiters creaming their jocks from the get go. He was a freak. You can build a team around a freak. We do with Riewoldt. Geelong do with Ablett. Brisbane do with Brown. And if Brown runs a 7 minute benchmark 2km, then, well, so do I (not)...

He had a horrible attitude.

He had a horrible attitude to his fitness until even late in his career. Consdiering guys get 2 weeks suspension from their clubs for being late to a 5am training session on a Sunday morning, it's very fair to suggest he would not have had an AFL career these days.

clubs make exceptions for guys who can actually play. it is nonsense to suggest he would not have an AFL career these days.

Didn't stop first Carlton then Lions taking Fev.

And as expectations change, so do attitudes. Especially when there's several noughts on the contract...IMO...

[rodgerfox]

With respect re Plugger that's nonsense. His explosive speed off the mark, strength, size and accuracy would have recruiters creaming their jocks from the get go. He was a freak. You can build a team around a freak. We do with Riewoldt. Geelong do with Ablett. Brisbane do with Brown. And if Brown runs a 7 minute benchmark 2km, then, well, so do I (not)...

He had a horrible attitude.

He had a horrible attitude to his fitness until even late in his career. Consdiering guys get 2 weeks suspension from their clubs for being late to a 5am training session on a Sunday morning, it's very fair to suggest he would not have had an AFL career these days.

clubs make exceptions for guys who can actually play.

No they don't.


Can you imagine Ross Lyon letting a dude play AFL with the attitude and fitness levels of a young Tony Lockett?

No way know. Certainly none of the 'new age' coaches would have.


Andrew Lovett apparently ran a poor time trial and got the arrse. I betcha he ran it about 7 minutes faster than Plugger would have.

[plugger66]

With respect re Plugger that's nonsense. His explosive speed off the mark, strength, size and accuracy would have recruiters creaming their jocks from the get go. He was a freak. You can build a team around a freak. We do with Riewoldt. Geelong do with Ablett. Brisbane do with Brown. And if Brown runs a 7 minute benchmark 2km, then, well, so do I (not)...

He had a horrible attitude.

He had a horrible attitude to his fitness until even late in his career. Consdiering guys get 2 weeks suspension from their clubs for being late to a 5am training session on a Sunday morning, it's very fair to suggest he would not have had an AFL career these days.

So you have given up on him because of his attitude back in 1980. Are you saying that a player today couldnt change their attitude with all the available footy coaches now.

[rodgerfox]

With respect re Plugger that's nonsense. His explosive speed off the mark, strength, size and accuracy would have recruiters creaming their jocks from the get go. He was a freak. You can build a team around a freak. We do with Riewoldt. Geelong do with Ablett. Brisbane do with Brown. And if Brown runs a 7 minute benchmark 2km, then, well, so do I (not)...

He had a horrible attitude.

He had a horrible attitude to his fitness until even late in his career. Consdiering guys get 2 weeks suspension from their clubs for being late to a 5am training session on a Sunday morning, it's very fair to suggest he would not have had an AFL career these days.

clubs make exceptions for guys who can actually play. it is nonsense to suggest he would not have an AFL career these days.

Didn't stop first Carlton then Lions taking Fev.

Fev is (well was) a very good runner. His fitness, and all the physical attributes ticked all the boxes required at a junior level.

[Thinline]

But he had the same attitude then as he has now.

Complete c***head.

[bigcarl]

Can you imagine Ross Lyon letting a dude play AFL with the attitude and fitness levels of a young Tony Lockett?

No way know. Certainly none of the 'new age' coaches would have.


Andrew Lovett apparently ran a poor time trial and got the arrse. I betcha he ran it about 7 minutes faster than Plugger would have.

times have changed. training methods have changed. if lockett was playing for sandringham and kicking six or seven every week, the pressure on ross to play him would be immense.

you surely are joking that lovett got the a**e because of his poor time trial.

[plugger66]

With respect re Plugger that's nonsense. His explosive speed off the mark, strength, size and accuracy would have recruiters creaming their jocks from the get go. He was a freak. You can build a team around a freak. We do with Riewoldt. Geelong do with Ablett. Brisbane do with Brown. And if Brown runs a 7 minute benchmark 2km, then, well, so do I (not)...

He had a horrible attitude.

He had a horrible attitude to his fitness until even late in his career. Consdiering guys get 2 weeks suspension from their clubs for being late to a 5am training session on a Sunday morning, it's very fair to suggest he would not have had an AFL career these days.

clubs make exceptions for guys who can actually play. it is nonsense to suggest he would not have an AFL career these days.

Didn't stop first Carlton then Lions taking Fev.

Fev is (well was) a very good runner. His fitness, and all the physical attributes ticked all the boxes required at a junior level.

But how would a person like him be in the early 80's. i would suggest with the amount of drinking they were able to do then, not much good.

[saintspremiers]

rodgerfox, can you not understand that plugger had enormous natural ability and was very fast over 20 metres?

Don't you get that part of what everyone on here is saying?

[plugger66]

Finally on this and Plugger's fitness. Plugger ran a marathon later after his footy career so that proves he did have the right attitude eventually. It just took him a while to learn. I would suggest the way footy is today he would learn at a very early age.

[rodgerfox]

He had a horrible attitude.

He had a horrible attitude to his fitness until even late in his career. Consdiering guys get 2 weeks suspension from their clubs for being late to a 5am training session on a Sunday morning, it's very fair to suggest he would not have had an AFL career these days.

So you have given up on him because of his attitude back in 1980. Are you saying that a player today couldnt change their attitude with all the available footy coaches now.[/quote]

I think as usual, this 'argument' is turning on it's ear.


I haven't given up Plugger as such, I've given up on where the AFL is these days. We get 'superstars' like Kirk Tippett who can't even kick a footy, as opposed to superstars like Tony Lockett.

We get athletic freaks that blitz the U18 time trials and get the nod ahead of guys like Greg Williams who would never have got a second look in the current climate.

Luke Ball got the arrse because he 'can't spread'. If you can't run like an olympic athlete, you don't get a game.

Clubs draft dudes from Canada FFS because they're 9ft tall and built like a brick outhouse - ahead of guys like Jason Akermanis.


The game has changed. I personally saw how the U18 works - and if you're not ahead of th game physically, you simply don't get a crack.

[bigcarl]

results at a junior level count for a lot. lockett was always going to be a champion. so was williams. they dominated their junior competitions.

the talent scout that passed him up would have been sacked quick smart and the butt of jokes for years to come.

he'd be like the guy who wouldn't sign the beatles because "groups with guitars are on the way out".

[plugger66]

He had a horrible attitude.

He had a horrible attitude to his fitness until even late in his career. Consdiering guys get 2 weeks suspension from their clubs for being late to a 5am training session on a Sunday morning, it's very fair to suggest he would not have had an AFL career these days.

So you have given up on him because of his attitude back in 1980. Are you saying that a player today couldnt change their attitude with all the available footy coaches now.

I think as usual, this 'argument' is turning on it's ear.


I haven't given up Plugger as such, I've given up on where the AFL is these days. We get 'superstars' like Kirk Tippett who can't even kick a footy, as opposed to superstars like Tony Lockett.

We get athletic freaks that blitz the U18 time trials and get the nod ahead of guys like Greg Williams who would never have got a second look in the current climate.

Luke Ball got the arrse because he 'can't spread'. If you can't run like an olympic athlete, you don't get a game.

Clubs draft dudes from Canada FFS because they're 9ft tall and built like a brick outhouse - ahead of guys like Jason Akermanis.


The game has changed. I personally saw how the U18 works - and if you're not ahead of th game physically, you simply don't get a crack.[/quote]

That is true but you said plugger wouldnt play today. He would if he was fit which I believe he would be. Not one footballer from the 80's would play today if they had the fitness of the 80's. It is that simple.

[Thinline]

That's just it though.

Plugger was ahead of the game physically.

[rodgerfox]

rodgerfox, can you not understand that plugger had enormous natural ability and was very fast over 20 metres?

Don't you get that part of what everyone on here is saying?

Hey f***wit, I', telling you from personal experience in the U18 comp, that being quick over 20m didn't mean shiit.

Jason Cripps, Justin Murphy and Aaron Lord were first through the 'trials' because they were built like men and had been preapring to play AFL footy since they were kids.

There were dozens, probably more, guys who were much, much better footballer than them - but they didn't get invited back because they couldn't run like the wind over 5km.
The other half of them didn't go back because it was too hard.

That was the very first training session. That's how they cut players. There were some freaks getting around who were invited down, who everyone knew their names - that never came back.


The only exceptions were kids like that smart arrse kid from Richmond who's dad was a Tigers legend (I can't remember his name) who were 'put aside' due to their pedigree.

Ben Cousins started weight training when he was 14 because he knew he needed to to get through the system.


If Plugger actually made it, he would have walked away anyway.

[bigcarl]

That's just it though.

Plugger was ahead of the game physically.

correct.