The 'Over Reliance on Roo' Thread

[bigred]

We most definately had an over reliance on Roo.

But so would any side if they had a player of his calibre.

Roger is right.

I think the past two months might just prove to be extremely valuable in the grand scheme of things.

This is a super team we have here. They can adapt to change very well and have just got the job done.

Can't wait for #12 to get back though. If anything, I just love to watch him play.

[saintsRrising]

It's probably time to change this to the over reliance on BJ thread. We're asking him to win clearances, drop back in the hole, set up goals and take marks up forward. It's too much for one player.

Or maybe move this thread to Punt Road End.

I am been very pleased with BJ this year.

Not that he was bad, but he has stepped it up a notch this year.

IMO BJ, Roo and Lenny are our three most valuable players now. BJ having gone past Dal.

Dal is very good.....but he just lacks that little bit extra that the other three have.

I remember hearing Ross speak not long after he become our coach.

When asked about BJ he described him as potentially being St Kilda's "point of difference" (ie compared to other teams.

BJ is now that point of difference.


Once Roo returns the forward line will lift a cog....as will the rest of the team as Roo is so good that he plays two roles. He adds a release for the backs and mids as well as being a forward target.

BJ has grown asa player, and so with a settled backline (apart from Zac) and with Roo back BJ will IMO be ripe to really start causing genuine havoc as uitlity witha licence to roam and inflict maximum damage where required....a bit Pav like if you will.


While RF has noted that we rely on Roo too much, equally we would be mad to not exploit his unique talents. The trick is to find the right balance. From his selections since he arrived RL has churned through third tall players to try and replace the elite Hamill. So far none have measured up. Using three smalls is IMO a work around till eventually one is found or developed.

BJ as a true utilty can ease this....

[vacuous space]

IMO, BJ has been one of the three best players in the league this year - along with Ablett and Hodge. Goddard looks like Buckley or Kouta at their peak right now. He'd be a terrifying prospect for opposition coaches right now. I'm very curious to see what our next opponent will do. They're a very attacking side, but had to go negative in the GF.

I think Dal is having an underrated season once again. Lenny wore the tag this week, but most weeks it's Dal that has a talentless scrub hanging off his back (hi, Jake King!). Lenny has had a lot of games this year where his opponent was completely disinterested in him. Dal deals better with taggers than Lenny does - probably through wealth of experience.

For me, the reliance on Roo is part and parcel of having somebody like Roo. He can create something out of nothing, so players will go to him before even looking for a better option. Brisbane are very Brown conscious. Hawthorn are Franklin conscious. I think we're less reliant on Roo than we were in the middle of the 00's when he set the record for marks. RF's entitled to his opinion (and I'm aware this is an old thread), but IMO, our reliance on Roo rarely costs us games.

[rodgerfox]

but IMO, our reliance on Roo rarely costs us games.

For what it's worth, I reckon it cost us the GF. And I think had he not been injured early in the year it would have killed us off this season.

I really do.


Losing him (assuming he comes back healthy) is the best thing to have happened to us.

[Leo.J]

RF is not GT.... seriously who would be stupid enough to really believe that.

I know most are taking the piss when saying he's GT, but some appear to really believe it.

For those who've been around long enough would remember that RF was posting alot during GT's tenure as coach...

He posted way too much back then, to be GT.

Unless GT has hacked his account and kidnapped him?

Anyway I've posted it before... I reckon he's Molly Meldrum.

[vacuous space]

For what it's worth, I reckon it cost us the GF. And I think had he not been injured early in the year it would have killed us off this season.

I think Geelong was so Roo conscious that it nearly cost them the game. Taylor was doing a great job on him in conditions that don't suit a tall, and they still had guys peeling off their men to help Taylor in the air. They gave way too much space to our smalls. Fortunately for Geelong, our guys kept missing. I still think skill errors were the number one reason we lost that game.

I do agree on the latter comment. If Roo had gone out in R20 or later, we probably would have been toast. The injury could wind up being a blessing in disguise. I'm not sure it will be though. My belief is that when he returns, we'll probably go back to seeking him out when we're struggling. I'd be happy to be wrong, but my feeling is that players under pressure seek out the easy option, which is usually Roo for us.

[Spinner]

Point made on the couch was that Goddard has elevated as a result as well has milne) in terms of his leadership.

Thoughts?

I think they have a point!

[Dis Believer]

Humour us? Not sure what you mean by that.

It's taken 2 months but it now appears we've learnt to win without him - .

You are a flog.

One - you seem to struggle to understand what epople mean quite often, perhaps you should study English.

Two - What mysterious planet are you from? We have lost 3 games without Roo - how is that two months? You stated that it's taken us two months to learn to win without Roo, but we have only lost 3 games. Strange maths where you're from.

On a brighter note though, it's very nice that you and the totally unrelated Violet Stool both have Av's from the Simpson's set. Very decorative.

[Dis Believer]

Losing him (assuming he comes back healthy) is the best thing to have happened to us.

Does your brain hurt? Skip the non-prescription medications.........

[SainterK]

but IMO, our reliance on Roo rarely costs us games.

For what it's worth, I reckon it cost us the GF. And I think had he not been injured early in the year it would have killed us off this season.

I really do.


Losing him (assuming he comes back healthy) is the best thing to have happened to us.

I always ensure I read your posts, then I read them again to ensure I have them in the right context, but I am not sure I am with you here....are you completely serious?

I really think you insult our list as a collective when you imply they lacked the maturity to fix this over reliance unless Roo was sidelined with injury.

Sure we will be a better side for his return, than before his injury, but who's to say they couldn't of addressed it with him there?

That's just speculative posting Rodger, you are usually more considered than that.

[OneEyedSainter77]

but IMO, our reliance on Roo rarely costs us games.

For what it's worth, I reckon it cost us the GF. And I think had he not been injured early in the year it would have killed us off this season.

I really do.


Losing him (assuming he comes back healthy) is the best thing to have happened to us.

Amazingly, I think I come where you're getting from... IN other words, losing him has forced us to find another way to win and realise we have the belief so if it were to happen again, we'd have more confidence. (If it wasn't 11 at night, I culd word that more coherently)

Is that sort of what you're trying to say? Because if it is, I kind of agree with you. kind of in the sense that i think it can help us - but kind of in the sense I don't agree completely because I would definitely reverse his injury if it were possible. With him in the side, we could be on top of the ladder.

[saintsRrising]

Point made on the couch was that Goddard has elevated as a result as well has milne) in terms of his leadership.

Thoughts?

I think they have a point!

IMO BJ was already primed for a big year.

I have long thought that BJ would grow into one of St Kilda's "greats". If it was not for his knee injury he would have done so.

[saintsRrising]

For what it's worth, I reckon it cost us the GF. And I think had he not been injured early in the year it would have killed us off this season.

I think Geelong was so Roo conscious that it nearly cost them the game. Taylor was doing a great job on him in conditions that don't suit a tall, and they still had guys peeling off their men to help Taylor in the air. They gave way too much space to our smalls. Fortunately for Geelong, our guys kept missing. I still think skill errors were the number one reason we lost that game.

.

A point worth emphasising.

Our smalls gained a lot of freedom and had ample shots on goal... this is where the Saints lost the game.


IMO our forward efficiencies will improve when Roo gets back for the same reason.

[saintsRrising]

I think Dal is having an underrated season once again. .

Yes Dal is right up there in a "technical" sense.

However there are no stats for this....but certain players just seem to have the ability to drag other players along with them...

Roo and Lenny are IMO such players...Dal not so much.

Hamill definitely was.

BJ now is...

Dal is certainly a much more skilful player than Lenny...and yes Lenny is a bit up and down this year. However perhaps wrongly I put this down to Lenny's interrupted preseason and that I believe he is playing with more than the normal amount of niggles at present.

[rodgerfox]

Brisbane are very Brown conscious. Hawthorn are Franklin conscious.

I think this is the important bit.

Brisbane will never be a serious threat whilst they're relying on Brown to win them games all the time.

They'll beat teams at the GABBA, and possibly play finals - but will never serisouly threaten whilst relying on one guy.


As for Hawthorn, I belieev they are a case in point. They had a centurion goal kicker who completely dominated the season.

On GF day, he took the best defender in the comp away from the play, and only kicked 3.
But his team still found plenty of guys able to kick goals themselves and step up when the game was in the balance.

That's what I see as the difference with us and other teams relying on key players.

To tie into another thread, we didn't have matchwinners - except for Roo.

In the GF, missed goals earlier in the game or not - the match was up for grabs and no one stepped up for us.
In the two finals leading up to the granny, Roo had been the one to step up and win the game. In the GF when he was hurt, he couldn't do it and neither could anyone else.

Dare I say it, but now, I'd be fairly confident that 3 or 4 guys could step up and be a matchwinner in a final in the event that he has a quiet day.

[saintsRrising]

Brisbane are very Brown conscious. Hawthorn are Franklin conscious.

As for Hawthorn, I belieev they are a case in point. They had a centurion goal kicker who completely dominated the season.

On GF day, he took the best defender in the comp away from the play, and only kicked 3.
But his team still found plenty of guys able to kick goals themselves and step up when the game was in the balance.
That's what I see as the difference with us and other teams relying on key players.

.

Ha..now that is funny...talk about only seeing what you want to

Only difference in that and the St Kilda GF was that our "plenty of guys" was that ours did not kick goals from easy opportunties.

Roo drew the defenders and created opportunity for others.

Buddy did the same.

Hawks "other guys" nailed ther shots...ours did not.

Skill execution was the difference.


PS: You might have missed the last two seasons but when the Buddy support crew went missing, so did the Hawks!!!!!!!!!!

[SainterK]

Actually, Brisbane stats show they rely an awful lot on Fev...in fact he is so far above anyone else as the go to guy inside 50 in the comp right now.

[saintsRrising]

Dare I say it, but now, I'd be fairly confident that 3 or 4 guys could step up and be a matchwinner in a final in the event that he has a quiet day.

rubbish.

Various players will stand up like Gram did last year. Whomever it is will have squat to do with Roo being out.


Only difference is that the forward line might work a bit better throught the finals as they have hada solid run without Roo. In last years GF our forwards had ample shots on goal afact that you are blind too.

[rodgerfox]

Dare I say it, but now, I'd be fairly confident that 3 or 4 guys could step up and be a matchwinner in a final in the event that he has a quiet day.

rubbish.

Various players will stand up like Gram did last year. Whomever it is will have squat to do with Roo being out.


Only difference is that the forward line might work a bit better throught the finals as they have hada solid run without Roo. In last years GF our forwards had ample shots on goal afact that you are blind too.

We lost.

The game was there to be won.

Nobody stood up when it mattered most.

[saintsRrising]

Brisbane will never be a serious threat whilst they're relying on Brown to win them games all the time.

.

The Lions are simply not that good a team. Their midfield is not up to scratch when compared with the competitions best. Brown is so good however he makesa big difference. That is why true champions are champions.

However any player of Brown's abilty will always makea difference to any team if fit.


I shudder to think what the Cat's would be like for example if you inserted him into their forward line.

The Ctas have made do with two GOP key forwards in Mooney and Hawkins and have gotten away with it as their midfield and smaller forwards are very good.

Podsa serviceable FF was inserted this year and has made an immediate impact. If the Cats had an elite KF like a Roo or a Brown they would be unstoppbale.

[rodgerfox]

Hawks "other guys" nailed ther shots...ours did not.

Skill execution was the difference.

I can't fathom how football supporters use missing goals as some form of excuse.

It's like a backman saying 'if I had have spoiled better we would have won' or a midfielder saying 'if I had have got more clearances we would have won'.

Kicking goals on the big stage is exactly what I'm talking about.

We blew it. We had 16 more Inside 50s and only 3 mor shots at goal.

No one stood up when it mattered.


The same thing had happened with regularity throughout the season 0 especially in the finals, and Roo was the one who stood up. No one else did.

On GF day when he wasn't able to, it showed.

[markp]

Yup... Lenny, BJ, Gram etc, all squibbed it when it mattered in the GF....

Why are these trolls tolerated?

[saintsRrising]

Nobody stood up when it mattered most.

Nobody eh???

So the best team in history must have won by over a 100 points then???


Game I watched the Saints dominated most of it.

RF I do agree with your point (and posted so when Roo went out) that Roo's abscence will have hada positive effect in that our players have had to learn to win without him......but it is nonsense to not want to exploot Roo's ull talents when he gets back.

I also disagree with Roo being out will somehow suddently mean that other players will now be "matchwinners".

We already had "matchwinners" in our team..and who bobs up each week has little to do with Roo being in or out.

[rodgerfox]

Yup... Lenny, BJ, Gram etc, all squibbed it when it mattered in the GF....

Squibbed it?

Want to elaborate on that? They're pretty strong words. I think you try to support that comment with some sort of supporting argument.

[markp]

Yup... Lenny, BJ, Gram etc, all squibbed it when it mattered in the GF....

Squibbed it?

Want to elaborate on that? They're pretty strong words. I think you try to support that comment with some sort of supporting argument.

You are a pathetic troll... I dont care to elaborate anything to you.