2010 Gameplan - more handball?

[Mr Magic]

Does anybody else feel there has been a change to our gameplan from 2009 involving the use of more handball out of defense?

I haven't looked at the statistics to verify it, but I have a feeling we're using much more handball in defense than we did last year. My memory last year was more switching the ball by 30m kicks backwards/sideways?
This season we seem to be trying to emulate the Geelong style handball and fling it around.

Could our current form lapse be as simple as us getting used to this new tactic AND not having Roo as our primary forward option?

[Sainterman]

I have noticed this, and not just in the backline. I am sure someone who is good at digging up stats may be able to verfiy this one. It will probably take us some time to adjust to this. I think we have started to look more and more settled each week though.

And I think it is important we try to move the ball quicker as more sides have started using our 2009 gameplan, which we now need to combat in reverse. Freo for one seem very similar to us last year in terms of game plan.

[#1GILL]

We are averaging 186 handballs this year out of an average of 399 disposals.

Last year we averaged 177 out of an average of 394 disposals per game.

So last year 44% of our disposals were handballs, and this year 46% of total disposals are handballs.

It's only an increase of 9 handballs per game, so I'm not sure that would make too much of a difference to be honest.

[BAM! (shhhh)]

I suspect the bigger driver than gameplan is other teams applying frontal pressure.

passive zones are done, and it's about aggressively denying the kick to a stationary ballcarrier.

The other worthy note here is that we no longer have the Reiwoldt outlet.

[OneEyedSainter77]

What I have noticed is that we seem to be more prone to handball our way out of pressure - teams will show you that this never works. Yes, obviously handballing is going to be quicker and probably less deadly than long kicking it to a contest blindly, but at least you get a bit more distance on the ball with the latter.

Sure the ball might come back your way, but if you handball to a player with five players around him, how the heck is that better?

I haven't noticed it being a significant increase in handballs though.

[saint66au]

Can confirm that, from within earshot of where I sit, the "Just kick the bloody thing" factor is up 26.73% on 2009

[mich13]

Can confirm that, from within earshot of where I sit, the "Just kick the bloody thing" factor is up 26.73% on 2009

Agree with this. Sometimes guilty of it myself! Understand the handball tactic but sometimes its so stressful watching that you just want them to kick it out of the heated situation. And then groan when it goes to an opponent It's a vicious circle

[saint66au]

Can confirm that, from within earshot of where I sit, the "Just kick the bloody thing" factor is up 26.73% on 2009

Agree with this. Sometimes guilty of it myself! Understand the handball tactic but sometimes its so stressful watching that you just want them to kick it out of the heated situation. And then groan when it goes to an opponent It's a vicious circle

LOL...Well i look forward to you being on the end of one of my very best "there..are ya HAPPY NOW????" retorts at some point

Always takes the edge off it though when you turn round to deliver said comeback and find its gonna be aimed at someone you know

[mich13]

Can confirm that, from within earshot of where I sit, the "Just kick the bloody thing" factor is up 26.73% on 2009

Agree with this. Sometimes guilty of it myself! Understand the handball tactic but sometimes its so stressful watching that you just want them to kick it out of the heated situation. And then groan when it goes to an opponent It's a vicious circle

LOL...Well i look forward to you being on the end of one of my very best "there..are ya HAPPY NOW????" retorts at some point

Always takes the edge off it though when you turn round to deliver said comeback and find its gonna be aimed at someone you know

I'd tell me off too! Doesn't happen often, mainly when it's close and you're sitting there trying to will them across the line. That's why its a vicious circle. You know that they're handballing it to try and keep possession and that kicking it will probably lose that, but you still want them to kick it away from danger. Logic is all well and good, but sometimes the emotion of the game takes over

Quite happy for them to do it towards the end of the game when they've got it all wrapped up though

[saint vince]

What I have noticed is that we seem to be more prone to handball our way out of pressure - teams will show you that this never works. Yes, obviously handballing is going to be quicker and probably less deadly than long kicking it to a contest blindly, but at least you get a bit more distance on the ball with the latter.

Sure the ball might come back your way, but if you handball to a player with five players around him, how the heck is that better?

I haven't noticed it being a significant increase in handballs though.

The reason for doing this is because getting caught and having a ball up in the centre or even at centre half back is better than giving the ball to the opposition in our forward 50.

If you want evidence of this watch the Carlton game and see what happens when you give the opposition easy ball in the defensive 50.

You get slaughtered.

[bobmurray]

What I have noticed is that we seem to be more prone to handball our way out of pressure - teams will show you that this never works. Yes, obviously handballing is going to be quicker and probably less deadly than long kicking it to a contest blindly, but at least you get a bit more distance on the ball with the latter.

Sure the ball might come back your way, but if you handball to a player with five players around him, how the heck is that better?

I haven't noticed it being a significant increase in handballs though.

The reason for doing this is because getting caught and having a ball up in the centre or even at centre half back is better than giving the ball to the opposition in our forward 50.

If you want evidence of this watch the Carlton game and see what happens when you give the opposition easy ball in the defensive 50.

You get slaughtered.

Carlton were very good at running the ball from one end of the ground to the other,sometimes it just seemed way too easy..we may have turned it over up forward with poor disposal but we had no system to stop them going coast to coast......i'm sure it's been looked at......

[rexy]

Would be interesting to see the stats post Roo injury and pre Roo injury. I feel that the increase may be due to the get out of jail kick being MIA?

[Mr Magic]

Would be interesting to see the stats post Roo injury and pre Roo injury. I feel that the increase may be due to the get out of jail kick being MIA?

Maybe, but I am led to believe that we actually instigated it as part of tweaking the gameplan over the off-season and that unfortunately Roo missing (and Gram to a lesser extent) has meant that it's not quite working so well?

[rexy]

Would be interesting to see the stats post Roo injury and pre Roo injury. I feel that the increase may be due to the get out of jail kick being MIA?

Maybe, but I am led to believe that we actually instigated it as part of tweaking the gameplan over the off-season and that unfortunately Roo missing (and Gram to a lesser extent) has meant that it's not quite working so well?

Source?

Interesting if true.

[Teflon]

Would be interesting to see the stats post Roo injury and pre Roo injury. I feel that the increase may be due to the get out of jail kick being MIA?

Maybe, but I am led to believe that we actually instigated it as part of tweaking the gameplan over the off-season and that unfortunately Roo missing (and Gram to a lesser extent) has meant that it's not quite working so well?

Thats a big call Magic....need some sauce with that...

[Mr Magic]

From someone who was around the Club during pre-season.
Told me during the NAB series that we were trying to emulate the 'Geelong handball off the backline' more in our game.

Said that they'd reached the conclusion that given what they expected opposition teams to do against us this season, we needed to 'tweak' what we were doing to counteract that.

Don't know if it's true or not, just what I was told.

Did anybody see any signs of such a 'tweak' prior to Roo being injured?

[Wrote for Luck]

If the case, probably been struggling to implement it with disruptions to our backline (as well as forward).

[Mr Magic]

If the case, probably been struggling to implement it with disruptions to our backline (as well as forward).

good point.

[saintbrat]

stat from one ot the footy shows last night

Saints disposals in the last quarter Sunday was a record 176 ( wobbly figure without reviewing the tape)

they didn't break it down but I'm guessing there is a stat site out there somewhere that can,

[BAM! (shhhh)]

What I have noticed is that we seem to be more prone to handball our way out of pressure - teams will show you that this never works. Yes, obviously handballing is going to be quicker and probably less deadly than long kicking it to a contest blindly, but at least you get a bit more distance on the ball with the latter.

Sure the ball might come back your way, but if you handball to a player with five players around him, how the heck is that better?

I haven't noticed it being a significant increase in handballs though.

What will show me this doesn't work?

5 years of successful teams being more and more handball driven will show you it does...

IIRC, the 2005 Swans, 2006 Eagles and 2007 cats all set new records for Handballs in the premiership years. The cats have continued to do so since.

Provided it's not a direct clanger, a handball's poor result tends to be a stoppage - 50/50. An innefective kick leads to 60/40 and worse contests, which leads to numbers of opposition running at you with the ball...

it's a running game these days.

[SainterK]

From someone who was around the Club during pre-season.
Told me during the NAB series that we were trying to emulate the 'Geelong handball off the backline' more in our game.

Said that they'd reached the conclusion that given what they expected opposition teams to do against us this season, we needed to 'tweak' what we were doing to counteract that.

Don't know if it's true or not, just what I was told.

Did anybody see any signs of such a 'tweak' prior to Roo being injured?

I honestly can't remember, it feels like so long ago already!

[Saints43]

From someone who was around the Club during pre-season.
Told me during the NAB series that we were trying to emulate the 'Geelong handball off the backline' more in our game.

Said that they'd reached the conclusion that given what they expected opposition teams to do against us this season, we needed to 'tweak' what we were doing to counteract that.

Don't know if it's true or not, just what I was told.

Did anybody see any signs of such a 'tweak' prior to Roo being injured?

I honestly can't remember, it feels like so long ago already!

I thougth RL had suggested pre-season that we were going to be a more attacking team and take the game on more this year.

I have also thought we were more inclined to try and chain handballs together out of the back rather than stop & prop this season.

[BAM! (shhhh)]

Can confirm that, from within earshot of where I sit, the "Just kick the bloody thing" factor is up 26.73% on 2009

Agree with this. Sometimes guilty of it myself! Understand the handball tactic but sometimes its so stressful watching that you just want them to kick it out of the heated situation. And then groan when it goes to an opponent It's a vicious circle

LOL...Well i look forward to you being on the end of one of my very best "there..are ya HAPPY NOW????" retorts at some point

Always takes the edge off it though when you turn round to deliver said comeback and find its gonna be aimed at someone you know

Personal favorite from Saturday night, delivered by the usual suspects:

"The difference is that they're kicking down the middle, and we're kicking backwards."

This delivered early 4th quarter, we're up by 15 points.

If that's the difference, then the logical conclusion would be...