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Teflon wrote:
Need a 4 qtr effort. Need the pressure.
.....
Agree..it was our hallmark last year...and lack of it has been our hallmark this year.
agree with both of you.
the other major concern, as i have said repeatedly, is the lack of an effective, goal-kicking key forward who can be the focal point of our attack.
someone who can bring some of the qualities to the team that rooey gives us. scoreboard pressure, goals on the board, a reliable target.
stanley's going to be great. kosi's woes are well documented. walsh is starting to impress for sandringham, but has played just seven games of football.
goddard is the best option, but the feeling seems to be that we cannot afford him out of the midfield.
i'd point out that there are lots of guys who can play midfield, but not many who can play as an effective key forward.
Last edited by bigcarl on Sun 30 May 2010 10:58pm, edited 3 times in total.
I agree with this, I felt the same through the game, but strangely, I never thought we were going to lose.
I reckon RL is trying to get the team to play to a slightly different game style, more attacking, less respectful of opponents, giving many in the team a licence to attack, knowing full well the lock down is now a fundamental skill. I also think this is why we are seeing the mids running forward of the ball and scoring.
What I believe we are seeing at the moment is a team confused and leaving the backs very exposed from the lack of pressure in the middle of the ground. I am hopeful that we will get the balance right in the coming weeks, and give us the different style to attacking the game that we need come September.
It will be very interesting when we play Freo and Geelong to see where we are currently at.
maverick wrote:I agree with this, I felt the same through the game, but strangely, I never thought we were going to lose.
I reckon RL is trying to get the team to play to a slightly different game style, more attacking, less respectful of opponents, giving many in the team a licence to attack, knowing full well the lock down is now a fundamental skill. I also think this is why we are seeing the mids running forward of the ball and scoring.
What I believe we are seeing at the moment is a team confused and leaving the backs very exposed from the lack of pressure in the middle of the ground. I am hopeful that we will get the balance right in the coming weeks, and give us the different style to attacking the game that we need come September.
It will be very interesting when we play Freo and Geelong to see where we are currently at.
Think we will be in the Freo game regardless of the result, the Geelong game is of much interest, they are exceptional and in very good form, will tell a lot about our ability to perform without Roo, more than the losses to Carlton and Essendon IMO. Just hope they dont jump us and then hold us at bay, that would be most embaressing.
maverick wrote:I agree with this, I felt the same through the game, but strangely, I never thought we were going to lose.
I reckon RL is trying to get the team to play to a slightly different game style, more attacking, less respectful of opponents, giving many in the team a licence to attack, knowing full well the lock down is now a fundamental skill. I also think this is why we are seeing the mids running forward of the ball and scoring.
What I believe we are seeing at the moment is a team confused and leaving the backs very exposed from the lack of pressure in the middle of the ground. I am hopeful that we will get the balance right in the coming weeks, and give us the different style to attacking the game that we need come September.
It will be very interesting when we play Freo and Geelong to see where we are currently at.
Think we will be in the Freo game regardless of the result, the Geelong game is of much interest, they are exceptional and in very good form, will tell a lot about our ability to perform without Roo, more than the losses to Carlton and Essendon IMO. Just hope they dont jump us and then hold us at bay, that would be most embaressing.
Don't under estimate the Freo game, would dearly love to win that, I can see them making the top 4 the way they are playing....
I must say the second qtr had me scratching my head. It seemed we went very flat from the moment Stanleys goal/point/whatever it was incident occurred. Our second qtrs have been a worry all year.
But, we seem to find another gear when we need to, and when we do, that manic pressure returns, and then so does the scoreboard pressure. I agree with some of the other posters, in that I think we have the defensive lock down style under control, and now we are learning to be more attacking. This will take time, but to see Dal slotting them from 50, without any other intent, and Monty doing them same is to me, as Ross would say, pleasing.
We have lost Roo, our captain and spiritual leader, and arguably the best player in the competition. It was never going to be easy. We have 7 and 3 and not in a bad position really. There is a LONG way to go. It is not even quite half way so we have time to get things right. And I see us trending that way. There is no panic, and we have beaten the other top 4 contenders we have played...
Did we wear ourselves out last year, peak too early? Are we timing things a little differently this time around?
I am overall comfortable with where we sit, as long as we go up a notch at about Round 14/15...start making some statements. I think we should sit back and watch it unfold...RL knows what he is doing, and the players and getting there, a little at a time each game.
Hold firm and try and enjoy the ride a little.
Last edited by Sainterman on Sun 30 May 2010 11:03pm, edited 1 time in total.
I am learning to care little where a side is situated on the ladder TBH.
If we can pay the opposition just enough respect to win, and play at different gears, and if that is the best thing to ensure the players are not burnt out by September....
Shrugs
Last edited by SainterK on Mon 31 May 2010 12:39am, edited 1 time in total.
Some good points - for those being hysterical wondering "why cant we all just be happy" - I enjoy this site for the footy discussion and yes, sometimes that includes questioning where we are at/how we as fans think we can get better (some great ideas come out of that - things I hadnt considered).
Back on topic - one thing I have noticed is the amount of time we appear to lapse this year while the oppo get a long run on.....last year sides would challenge but it seemed as if we put down any "resurgence" very quickly......this year not so.
I am also of an opinion that the sides preparation is being tweaked this year (im telling myself that anyway...these arent machines....) for a later surge....
Its clear some sides have taken real steps and improved this year - Carlton look better as their younger mids get more matuirity and confidence, Essendon have surprised a tad, Freo also so I guess that too has to be considered.
GeorgeYoung27 wrote:what is the point in looking unstoppable in may. ask collingwood or even us in 2009. like ross said, just bank the 4 points at this time of year
Its not about being unstoppable in May.
Its about taking out the obvious kinks in our game in May.
E.G I will wager our mids wont get a dominant run at goal or kick winning scores from the boundary with ease like we did against Crows when we play a top side in form - aka Cats atm. Therefore, its ok to talk about where we can improve.
just need to keep improving and as rossy says, banking those points each week. According to lyon we have 6 short breaks during the first half of the year and this will always mean they have to develop strategies to keep them up and fit.
Interesting to note that lyon thought the players got a little "excited" in the second quarter, my guess is that he is trying to inject some run and carry as suggested in an earlier post. Problem is that they are forgetting their basic rules. We seemed to go back to that before putting the foot down again. It's still a work in progress, and to be honest I would rather us still be developing in round 10 then in a prelim final.
Lets talk about the top 2 sides when we actually meet them. In the meantime I am interested in who lyon picks "horses for courses"... do we need more run like they thought we would against the crows (hence eddy comes in) or another taller half forward (heyne against westcoast)
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GeorgeYoung27 wrote:
what is the point in looking unstoppable in may. ask collingwood or even us in 2009. like ross said, just bank the 4 points at this time of year
Its not about being unstoppable in May.
Its about taking out the obvious kinks in our game in May.
E.G I will wager our mids wont get a dominant run at goal or kick winning scores from the boundary with ease like we did against Crows when we play a top side in form - aka Cats atm. Therefore, its ok to talk about where we can improve.
I'm quite happy for you to be so concerned, but I laugh these days at the over-analysis of the game. Geelong were playing crap 4 weeks from the finals last year. We flogged Hawthorn 6 weeks from the finals the year before (richmond smashed them 2 weeks before). It's so totally irrelevant whether we could beat Geelong in 4 weeks time. It's whether we can beat them in 3 months time and how the hell would we know. All I know is I'd like for us to be there to try.
I'm not sifting thorugh all the bulls*** in this thread.
I agree with the OP.
Even if we flog Richmond by 110 points this weekend, i'm not breathing a sigh of relief until we beat Freo at Subiaco in round 12. Only then will this slump be officially over.
Having said that, it is great to at least find more than ten minutes of form in a match - our "bursts" seem to be getting bigger.
Positives and negatives to come out of the game IMO
I'm loving that we can run games out after 6 day breaks and Interstate trips. The down side is that weve needed to pull out big last quarters to win at least 3 games this year.
The difference between our best and worst is a huge gap right now. we looked frighteningly bad at times against Carlton, Essendon and the Doggies, yet that first 20mins and the last quarter on Sat night was as good as we've played all year.
Our bottom tier players still concern me. Mac looks like he might have taken the next step..but...some kid for Melbourne had 26 touches on debut this week and Hanneberry for the Swans was BOG at 19 in his second year...and whos this kid Fyfe from Freo who had a ripper yesterday? Been a very long time since one of our kids did that. Im probably sounding impatient but IMO to match it with Geelong we need a couple of Armo, Geary, Eddy or Steven to start featuring in our best players just occasionally. Sure we are 4th, but each week it seems our best are Lenny, Dal, Joey and BJ just in a different order each week with perhaps Milne thrown in to mix it up.
The good news? We are 4th playing, IMO, a long way from our best footy
Teflon wrote:
Need a 4 qtr effort. Need the pressure.
.....
Agree..it was our hallmark last year...and lack of it has been our hallmark this year.
agree with both of you.
the other major concern, as i have said repeatedly, is the lack of an effective, goal-kicking key forward who can be the focal point of our attack.
someone who can bring some of the qualities to the team that rooey gives us. scoreboard pressure, goals on the board, a reliable target.
stanley's going to be great. kosi's woes are well documented. walsh is starting to impress for sandringham, but has played just seven games of football.
goddard is the best option, but the feeling seems to be that we cannot afford him out of the midfield.
i'd point out that there are lots of guys who can play midfield, but not many who can play as an effective key forward.
So what odd's did ya get for BJ to win the Coleman ??
The OP is a bit harsh stating we only played two quarters.
Our third quarter was good and, had it not been for easy misses, we would have the game in our keeping at 3/4 time.
We had 10 scoring shots to 6 and 27 tackles to 7 and won the quarter by nine points. Had we kicked straight, we could have been 3-4 goals in front. I can't find the inside 50 numbers, but I'd bet we won those handsomely.
After slipping in the second quarter, we responded well after half time.
I think we broke the back of the Crows in that quarter after they threw all they had at us in the second.
OneEyedSainter77 wrote:I'm not sifting thorugh all the bulls*** in this thread.
I agree with the OP.
Even if we flog Richmond by 110 points this weekend, i'm not breathing a sigh of relief until we beat Freo at Subiaco in round 12. Only then will this slump be officially over.
Having said that, it is great to at least find more than ten minutes of form in a match - our "bursts" seem to be getting bigger.
Well, if you'd sifted through all the 'bulls***' in this thread, I think you'd have found a lot of people are noting improvement each week, in line with your last sentance. Beating Freo at Subi would be a big task if we were in top form, so wouldn't rate a loss there as significant, especially considering it'd only be R12. Thanks for adding to the bulls***.
Teflon wrote:
Need a 4 qtr effort. Need the pressure.
.....
Agree..it was our hallmark last year...and lack of it has been our hallmark this year.
agree with both of you.
the other major concern, as i have said repeatedly, is the lack of an effective, goal-kicking key forward who can be the focal point of our attack.
someone who can bring some of the qualities to the team that rooey gives us. scoreboard pressure, goals on the board, a reliable target.
stanley's going to be great. kosi's woes are well documented. walsh is starting to impress for sandringham, but has played just seven games of football.
goddard is the best option, but the feeling seems to be that we cannot afford him out of the midfield.
i'd point out that there are lots of guys who can play midfield, but not many who can play as an effective key forward.
So what odd's did ya get for BJ to win the Coleman ??
good one.
at least ross seems to send him forward when we are struggling for a goal (which is every week). so my harping on about it may not have all been in vain.
Teflon wrote:
Need a 4 qtr effort. Need the pressure.
.....
Agree..it was our hallmark last year...and lack of it has been our hallmark this year.
agree with both of you.
the other major concern, as i have said repeatedly, is the lack of an effective, goal-kicking key forward who can be the focal point of our attack.
someone who can bring some of the qualities to the team that rooey gives us. scoreboard pressure, goals on the board, a reliable target.
stanley's going to be great. kosi's woes are well documented. walsh is starting to impress for sandringham, but has played just seven games of football.
goddard is the best option, but the feeling seems to be that we cannot afford him out of the midfield.
i'd point out that there are lots of guys who can play midfield, but not many who can play as an effective key forward.
So what odd's did ya get for BJ to win the Coleman ??
good one.
at least ross seems to send him forward when we are struggling for a goal (which is every week). so my harping on about it may not have all been in vain.
we need 3 of him atm......
1.Floating around half back..
2.Midfield.
3.Forward.
Amazing talent is BJ.
I guess getting Grammy and Rooey back takes care of 2 and 3.
Then Beej can run rampant..............license to thrill..
It's not the backline that's struggling, it's the same approach that's given us fits since 2004 - fast breaks along the wings.
The other thing we're doing a lot more this year is turning the ball over as team apply frontal pressure to us instead of collapsing and allowing us a slow advance up the field - opponents have figured out that this is now suicide, when given structure, we work the 50 well and get the ball back when we don't score.
Sans Reiwoldt, we have yet to figure out the half forwardline on the fast break. We're tending to either get held up or turn it over, sacrificing easy points.
Not giving credit to Tippett for a 5 contested mark performance is just ridiculous. He reminded everyone on Saturday night why he's so highly touted. He's just so bloody big defenders can't spoil.
Take FWIW, the 2nd quarter was woeful, but the rest of the game was by and large played on the Saints terms.
"Everything comes to he who hustles while he waits"
- Henry Ford
Teflon wrote:Some good points - for those being hysterical wondering "why cant we all just be happy" - I enjoy this site for the footy discussion and yes, sometimes that includes questioning where we are at/how we as fans think we can get better (some great ideas come out of that - things I hadnt considered).
Back on topic - one thing I have noticed is the amount of time we appear to lapse this year while the oppo get a long run on.....last year sides would challenge but it seemed as if we put down any "resurgence" very quickly......this year not so.
I am also of an opinion that the sides preparation is being tweaked this year (im telling myself that anyway...these arent machines....) for a later surge....
Its clear some sides have taken real steps and improved this year - Carlton look better as their younger mids get more matuirity and confidence, Essendon have surprised a tad, Freo also so I guess that too has to be considered.
Fremantle have always jammed a window of premiership success in the next few years through great drafting of younger players.
Over time it has seen that it is much more difficult to find quality talls in drafts and good midfielders are much easier to come across. The Dockers now have a good midfield group and an older, more mature group of experienced talls. Improvements in both has been the obvious reason for their good start to the year.
The Blues are just the opposite. They have (or will have) an experienced group of midfielders however they do not have the talls to match. This will prove a problem as time and again it has been seen that premiership teams need quality talls at either end of the ground.
The Bombers might fall into the same trap as the midfielders might be too old by the time the better talls come into their prime/best playing days.
Adelaide Crows had 2 players that made the most of their F50 entries .. Tippet took marks and Dangerfield (we need a player like him on the half forward flank) kicked goals from the limited opportunities he had.
samoht wrote:Adelaide Crows had 2 players that made the most of their F50 entries .. Tippet took marks and Dangerfield (we need a player like him on the half forward flank) kicked goals from the limited opportunities he had.
yep, forward efficiency (the ability to turn opportunities into goals) is very important.
