Lets be serious about Kosi

[Bernard Shakey]

Keep him in for the Richmond game he needs to find form maybe he can do it next week.

To be fair, that is exactly what most people have been saying for several weeks now, including myself.

Milne and Dal Santo were dropped a few years ago, at this point Kosi is not playing well enough to be an exception. I think Ross will make the change this week.

I started this thread but not a hope in the world Kosi will be dropped. Structure, structure and more structure. That is why Zac was never going to be dropped.

Yep - just interviewed Monty on 3AW and he said as much - he said the boys are right behind Kosi and while he keeps presenting and working hard at ground level thats all they ask - he said he is working hard during the week and and it is only time before he turns it around - in short the players love him in the side

So for all you Kosi haters suck it up because it sounds like he is in the side to stay

Well Joey would say that wouldn't he. They live together and have done so for the last five years at least.

[Moods]

I would expect any player to support Kosi. I mean what would you expect them to say, 'Yeah Kos was terrible tonight, who knows how much longer he will be in the team for?' I mean RL said that he was happy with Heyne's game last week, and the following week he was dropped.

[plugger66]

Keep him in for the Richmond game he needs to find form maybe he can do it next week.

To be fair, that is exactly what most people have been saying for several weeks now, including myself.

Milne and Dal Santo were dropped a few years ago, at this point Kosi is not playing well enough to be an exception. I think Ross will make the change this week.

I started this thread but not a hope in the world Kosi will be dropped. Structure, structure and more structure. That is why Zac was never going to be dropped.

Yep - just interviewed Monty on 3AW and he said as much - he said the boys are right behind Kosi and while he keeps presenting and working hard at ground level thats all they ask - he said he is working hard during the week and and it is only time before he turns it around - in short the players love him in the side

So for all you Kosi haters suck it up because it sounds like he is in the side to stay

Well Joey would say that wouldn't he. They live together and have done so for the last five years at least.

Havent for over a year now but he would say that about any player.

[Con Gorozidis]

I think the problem with Kosi is twofold. One is he is down on confidence. The fact that he takes a mark in the fourth quarter sixty out and his own supporters give him a sarcastic jeer certainly would not help him, I definitely hung my head at that moment.

Secondly, he's now getting either one, or often both, of the other teams best defenders. When Riewoldt plays he absorbs at least one, if not both of those, and Kosi is left with a much more achievable match up. I don't want to see Kosi discarded, I would persevere. Dropping him will only help his confidence if he monsters the VFL full backs, and then we're left with one tall forward in Stanley.

i think we have no choice but to persist and hope he turns it around. we dont really have an alternative just yet until tommy walsh is ready ...

but the excuse was that he plays bad when riewoldt is in because he doesnt know where to run. and when riewoldt is out the excuse is he gets the best defenders. for some bizarre reason hes getting his hands to the ball and dropping marks.

he really is our problem child and has been for about 7 years. every week. every year we hear the same thing.

we just need to lower our expectations on the bloke. as long as he competes and brings it to ground. i also reckon we arent crumbing well enough and often enough to him. it makes him look extra bad when he drops a mark and there are 2 or 3 opposition players there and no saints there to mop it up. so if i were RL id be keeping stats on that. when contested marks are dropped in the forward 50 what r u the numbers on the ground? i reckon we are doing poorly in that this year. which also explains why our inside 50 tackles are down. not enough effort to get to the fall of the ball from contested inside 50's. milney, schneids and mini need to get better at this.

[Winmarvellous]

Maybe it's because they HAVE to present because Kosi is so crap atm. Has been for some time now. As for this mentality that as long as he crashes packs and brings it to ground, well plenty of dumb, big bodied blokes can do this. Kosi is our fullforward. His job is to KICK GOALS. Stop making excuses for the guy.

[Con Gorozidis]

Maybe it's because they HAVE to present because Kosi is so crap atm. Has been for some time now. As for this mentality that as long as he crashes packs and brings it to ground, well plenty of dumb, big bodied blokes can do this. Kosi is our fullforward. His job is to KICK GOALS. Stop making excuses for the guy.

shhh. im just trying to talk him up so GC offer us something good for him

[saint75]

Not ready to give up on Kosi yet. He has a lot to offer, he just needs to find his confidence again. I am sure we will see a turnaround very soon......

[Bernard Shakey]

Keep him in for the Richmond game he needs to find form maybe he can do it next week.

To be fair, that is exactly what most people have been saying for several weeks now, including myself.

Milne and Dal Santo were dropped a few years ago, at this point Kosi is not playing well enough to be an exception. I think Ross will make the change this week.

I started this thread but not a hope in the world Kosi will be dropped. Structure, structure and more structure. That is why Zac was never going to be dropped.

Yep - just interviewed Monty on 3AW and he said as much - he said the boys are right behind Kosi and while he keeps presenting and working hard at ground level thats all they ask - he said he is working hard during the week and and it is only time before he turns it around - in short the players love him in the side

So for all you Kosi haters suck it up because it sounds like he is in the side to stay

Well Joey would say that wouldn't he. They live together and have done so for the last five years at least.

Havent for over a year now but he would say that about any player.

Their cars are still parked in the same driveway.

[plugger66]

Keep him in for the Richmond game he needs to find form maybe he can do it next week.

To be fair, that is exactly what most people have been saying for several weeks now, including myself.

Milne and Dal Santo were dropped a few years ago, at this point Kosi is not playing well enough to be an exception. I think Ross will make the change this week.

I started this thread but not a hope in the world Kosi will be dropped. Structure, structure and more structure. That is why Zac was never going to be dropped.

Yep - just interviewed Monty on 3AW and he said as much - he said the boys are right behind Kosi and while he keeps presenting and working hard at ground level thats all they ask - he said he is working hard during the week and and it is only time before he turns it around - in short the players love him in the side

So for all you Kosi haters suck it up because it sounds like he is in the side to stay

Well Joey would say that wouldn't he. They live together and have done so for the last five years at least.

Havent for over a year now but he would say that about any player.

Their cars are still parked in the same driveway.

Wouldnt have a clue about cars but they dont even live in the same suburb. Actually a long way from one and other.

[Con Gorozidis]

Keep him in for the Richmond game he needs to find form maybe he can do it next week.

To be fair, that is exactly what most people have been saying for several weeks now, including myself.

Milne and Dal Santo were dropped a few years ago, at this point Kosi is not playing well enough to be an exception. I think Ross will make the change this week.

I started this thread but not a hope in the world Kosi will be dropped. Structure, structure and more structure. That is why Zac was never going to be dropped.

Yep - just interviewed Monty on 3AW and he said as much - he said the boys are right behind Kosi and while he keeps presenting and working hard at ground level thats all they ask - he said he is working hard during the week and and it is only time before he turns it around - in short the players love him in the side

So for all you Kosi haters suck it up because it sounds like he is in the side to stay

Well Joey would say that wouldn't he. They live together and have done so for the last five years at least.

Havent for over a year now but he would say that about any player.

Their cars are still parked in the same driveway.

ok u two! stop having a competition on who stalks our players the most! lets call it a draw

[Bernard Shakey]

Not ready to give up on Kosi yet. He has a lot to offer, he just needs to find his confidence again. I am sure we will see a turnaround very soon......

That's what most posters have been saying all year.

Playing players who continually put in mediocre performances sends the wrong message to the whole group. Why should he improve? He gets a game every week. Why should I bust a gut at Sandy? They'll never drop Kosi.

I'd love to see him come good take half a dozen contested marks and kick a couple of goals every week. It's just not happening and doesn't look like it will any time soon.

[bigcarl]

BJ will never play FF so you need to come up with another option. Kosi will never ruck so he either plays FF or doesnt play.

BJ's the best goal-kicking key forward option we have in riewoldt's absence. Name one who is better.

kicked five in a half against fremantle, comparable to kosi's output for the season. i thought his stint forward last night really got us going.

Kosi can ruck and will later in the season.

That is all good but RL has shown it isnt going to happen so what are the other options for those 2 players.

i'm glad you agree with me.

ross has shown himself to be flexible in the past and i would expect him to go with whatever works.

he's not a moron.

the only other option i can think of for ff would be tommy walsh. a natural forward with fabulous instincts.

but, as others have pointed out, it is a hell of a lot to ask of a guy who has played only seven games of footy.

i'm confident, though, he is closer than many seem to think and that ultimately he will be a gun.

[sunsaint]

I would expect any player to support Kosi. I mean what would you expect them to say, 'Yeah Kos was terrible tonight, who knows how much longer he will be in the team for?' I mean RL said that he was happy with Heyne's game last week, and the following week he was dropped.

I got onto this thread late but that was exactly my thought at the time when I saw the interview.
But how would you feel as an onballer watching as you roost the ball up there only to see it slip though the hands, get out sprinted to position, & not forcing a contested ground ball, then to watch it come rebounding so quick you have no chance to get back & cover opponents defensively.

Anyway the last two weeks have panned out exactly the same.
First two quarters, Lyon backs Kosi & he is in the forwardline.
3rd quarter Lyon goes with the kids and it clicks.

It has nothing to do with delivery, nothing to do with conditions, nothing to do with opponents.
If Lyon thought he inherited a fractured player when he first arrived, then 2.5 years later, I dont know what you would call him now.

[saint75]

Not ready to give up on Kosi yet. He has a lot to offer, he just needs to find his confidence again. I am sure we will see a turnaround very soon......

That's what most posters have been saying all year.

Playing players who continually put in mediocre performances sends the wrong message to the whole group. Why should he improve? He gets a game every week. Why should I bust a gut at Sandy? They'll never drop Kosi.

I'd love to see him come good take half a dozen contested marks and kick a couple of goals every week. It's just not happening and doesn't look like it will any time soon.

Fair point and I do agree with you to a certain degree. There have been quite a few backseat travelers over the course of the year so far. Should they all be dropped as well? Have they not continued to be played until they find some form? Is Kosi not allowed this luxury for a little longer?

As we also don't know exactly what his role his, I think it best to leave the team decisions to Ross.

[CURLY]

I would dare to say that Milne and Sneider love having Kosi up there. Thats a good enough reason for Kosi to play each week. Its amazing that finally with Stanley in the side although hes not winning heaps of ball our structure looks so much better. Lets leave it alone.

[SainterK]

If he is feeling down on confidence, I am also not sure how jeering him will help.

I agree with the poster who said that the cheer in the last sounded supportive from where I was sitting, certainly the vibe around around was that he seems to have severly lost marking ability since injuring his hand....

Contested marking was his strength, he lead the comp for it last year, it doesn't just go away for no reason?

As I suggested earlier, put the glove back on, it's worth a try.

At least he laid 3 tackles, and he got the ball inside fifty 3 times, it was a very poor game....but it's not entirely true to say he did nothing.

I'll continue to support him, as I do everyone else.

[bigcarl]

BJ will never play FF so you need to come up with another option. Kosi will never ruck so he either plays FF or doesnt play.

BJ's the best goal-kicking key forward option we have in riewoldt's absence. Name one who is better.

He kicked five in a half against Fremantle, comparable to Kosi's output for the season. I thought his stint forward last night really got us going.

Kosi can ruck and will later in the season.

Our midfield is not strong enough to have BJ in the forward line.

Not even close to strong enough.

i don't know about that. i do know that it is a lot easier to find midfielders than it is to find effective key forwards.

there is a reason they are called key position players you know. they are very important to a team's performance.

if only tommy walsh were ready. then we wouldn't be having this discussion.

[plugger66]

BJ will never play FF so you need to come up with another option. Kosi will never ruck so he either plays FF or doesnt play.

BJ's the best goal-kicking key forward option we have in riewoldt's absence. Name one who is better.

He kicked five in a half against Fremantle, comparable to Kosi's output for the season. I thought his stint forward last night really got us going.

Kosi can ruck and will later in the season.

Our midfield is not strong enough to have BJ in the forward line.

Not even close to strong enough.

i don't know about that. i do know that it is a lot easier to find midfielders than it is to find effective key forwards.

there is a reason they are called key position players you know. they are very important to a team's performance.

if only tommy walsh were ready. then we wouldn't be having this discussion.

Are you on Tommy Walsh now? At least you are consistant. consistantly wanting new people up forward.

[bigcarl]

BJ will never play FF so you need to come up with another option. Kosi will never ruck so he either plays FF or doesnt play.

BJ's the best goal-kicking key forward option we have in riewoldt's absence. Name one who is better.

He kicked five in a half against Fremantle, comparable to Kosi's output for the season. I thought his stint forward last night really got us going.

Kosi can ruck and will later in the season.

Our midfield is not strong enough to have BJ in the forward line.

Not even close to strong enough.

i don't know about that. i do know that it is a lot easier to find midfielders than it is to find effective key forwards.

there is a reason they are called key position players you know. they are very important to a team's performance.

if only tommy walsh were ready. then we wouldn't be having this discussion.

Are you on Tommy Walsh now? At least you are consistant. consistantly wanting new people up forward.

no, i'm still on goddard.

the forward line again looked dysfunctional until he went there in the last quarter.

hey presto. goddard marks strongly and goals in a game-breaking passage of play. it starts raining st kilda goals.

as for tommy walsh, my point is that if he was ready (and can make it as a key forward) then we could afford to leave goddard in the midfield.

[plugger66]

Was BJ good up forward in the first 20 minutes of the game?

[joffaboy]

I'd love to see him come good take half a dozen contested marks and kick a couple of goals every week. It's just not happening and doesn't look like it will any time soon.

Rubbish.

You do not want to see kosi be successful.

You have made that patently obvious for years on here.

You recently posted that Kosi did not deserve to be in any St.Kilda premiership team.

You are absolutely obsessed with your all consuming hate for kosi.

Your obsession is really quite unhealthy and not a little bit scary.

As for kosi. Was very sad to see him so out of form last night. Really very poor.

only thing I can say is that he took the bestr backman, but do we want our key forward just as a decoy?

[bigcarl]

Was BJ good up forward in the first 20 minutes of the game?

we started really well without him up forward, but then it was back to the same mediocrity we've witnessed in the past month.

at half time we'd been inside 50 significantly more than them but scores were level. forward efficiency was well down.

[joffaboy]

we started really well without him up forward, but then it was back to the same mediocrity we've witnessed in the past month.

at half time we'd been inside 50 significantly more than them but scores were level. forward efficiency was well down.

I dont understand?

We kicked 5 in the first, 5 in the third, and 7 in the fourth. How is that dysfunctional?

The Crows manned up on Lenny, Dal and Joey in the second part of qtr1 and qtr2, Joey was off the ground for much of qtr 2, and we got beaten in clearances.

If the ball is not coming down to the forward line, that is hardly the fault of the forwards.

Only forwad down last night was Kosi. Stanley had a good game, the two smalls in Milne and Schneider kicked over a qtr of the toal score, and when our resting mids were down there (plus Jimmy) they all kicked goals.

Walsh has played 7 games. On Sunday was, I think the first time he has played up forward. Give him a break, lwet he learn the game.

Our forward line was fine last night.

[bigcarl]

Only forwad down last night was Kosi. Stanley had a good game, the two smalls in Milne and Schneider kicked over a qtr of the toal score, and when our resting mids were down there (plus Jimmy) they all kicked goals.

kosi is the concern. he's supposed to be the focal point and he just isn't. it is low percentage and inefficient to go to him.

don't get me wrong. i'm delighted with the win.

i'm just very wary of how we will go until riewoldt's return without an effective, goal-kicking key forward,

btw, i did not say walsh was ready. i said it is a pity he is not, because then we could afford to leave goddard in the midfield.

[saintsRrising]

Was BJ good up forward in the first 20 minutes of the game?

we started really well without him up forward, but then it was back to the same mediocrity we've witnessed in the past month.
at half time we'd been inside 50 significantly more than them but scores were level. forward efficiency was well down.

With respect it was not the forwards so much that were stuffing up, but the way that the ball was delivered into the forward line.

Time after time there was a forward in space to only see the ball delivered to his opponent.

Ball use is one of the main things we need to improve.

Note Lyon's comments on the second quarter.