FREE Kick Count 2010 - For & Against

[St.Walker]

I'm not sure if im crossed eyed or just passionate but we have been getting the raw end of the free kick count in 2010. Especially in our forward 50 we all know milne and schnider dont ever get a free.

After 7 rounds the count is FREE'S Against #144 v FREE'S For #100

I think ross needs to bring this up either formally or cop a fine. its uter BS.

Watch this space

[st_Trav_ofWA]

I'm not sure if im crossed eyed or just passionate but we have been getting the raw end of the free kick count in 2010. Especially in our forward 50 we all know milne and schnider dont ever get a free.

After 7 rounds the count is FREE'S Against #144 v FREE'S For #100

I think ross needs to bring this up either formally or cop a fine. its uter BS.

Watch this space

yeah cause thats worked in the past ... whispers in the sky anyone

[Ice Wolf]

Nah we just need to start training our own umpires, get them up to a good standard and then get them hired by the AFL.

We should be funding umpire development. Maybe even keep a few of our players on who couldn't make it as players and train them to umpire.

[st_Trav_ofWA]

let put it this way if the team works harder and does all the things it did in 2009 the the umpires will have no impact whatsoevr

[Eastern]

I'm not sure if im crossed eyed or just passionate but we have been getting the raw end of the free kick count in 2010. Especially in our forward 50 we all know milne and schnider dont ever get a free.

After 7 rounds the count is FREE'S Against #144 v FREE'S For #100

I think ross needs to bring this up either formally or cop a fine. its uter BS.

Watch this space

Another angle: Should we be looking "INTERNALLY" to find a solution?

Are our players being properly educated in these matters?

Are our coaches "drilling" the players properly in these matters?

Are our Research & Development people providing enough of the right info on these matters to the coaches & players?

We need to be sure that we are squeaky clean before pointing the finger at the AFL and/or the umpires !!

[st_Trav_ofWA]

good point eastern ... many time our players look confused as to the reason a free is player or not paid maybe a meeting with the geish to go through what the rules actually are is needed

[OneEyedSainter77]

I'm not sure if im crossed eyed or just passionate but we have been getting the raw end of the free kick count in 2010. Especially in our forward 50 we all know milne and schnider dont ever get a free.

After 7 rounds the count is FREE'S Against #144 v FREE'S For #100

I think ross needs to bring this up either formally or cop a fine. its uter BS.

Watch this space

excellent point. I've lost count of the amount of times I've leapt out of my seat screaming at King for another ruck infringement. And our backline seem to masters at giving away free kicks for too high or a push. They are fair enough, but the thing that gets me is the holding the ball rule. Do we just not understand it or are we just not getting them.

Umpiring was bad on Monday night but we were putrid. When you play like that I'm not sure you can blame the umpires.

Another angle: Should we be looking "INTERNALLY" to find a solution?

Are our players being properly educated in these matters?

Are our coaches "drilling" the players properly in these matters?

Are our Research & Development people providing enough of the right info on these matters to the coaches & players?

We need to be sure that we are squeaky clean before pointing the finger at the AFL and/or the umpires !!

[Eastern]

Interesting to note that Freo are publicly suggesting (on radio news) that Collingwood's "Blocking" tactics might be outside the rules.

I see this as both clubs being pro-active. Collingwood for bending the rules as far as they can and some. Freo for bringing it to everyone's attention.

I haven't heard of St Kilda being pro-active on any umpiring matters, yet they might be doing it quietly !!

[saintspremiers]

I'm not sure if im crossed eyed or just passionate but we have been getting the raw end of the free kick count in 2010. Especially in our forward 50 we all know milne and schnider dont ever get a free.

After 7 rounds the count is FREE'S Against #144 v FREE'S For #100

I think ross needs to bring this up either formally or cop a fine. its uter BS.

Watch this space

Is plugger66 dead?

8 hours and no response from him....

[ace]

Either the umpires are corrupt - possible
OR the AFL is corrupt for retaining incompetent umpires.

One thing is certain something is

CORRUPT


Where are you plugger66

[bigcarl]

the word has gone out from the afl that st kilda's game plan is ugly because our ferocious tackling of 2009 stands in the way of free flowing football.

consequently the umpires have been told to crack down on us.

that's my theory on this outrage.

plugger?

[SydneySainter]

Face it, we've had a pretty darn good run from the umpires during the last couple of seasons, bar a couple of matches.

This is us repaying some karma.

[Solar]

Face it, we've had a pretty darn good run from the umpires during the last couple of seasons, bar a couple of matches.

This is us repaying some karma.

please show me some stats backing this up? Because for a top 4 side we have been getting the bad side of the stick more then we should IMO

[SainterX1]

I would like to see the AFL's stats of incorrect free kicks - what was missed and what was incorrectly paid. I recall a game in Port Adelaide a few years ago which we lost by a kick, and Geishen apologised for the number of incorrect frees which led to goals for Port and missed opportunities for us.

Maybe someone can contact Mike Sheahan or another high profile media person, and put them on to what could be a great story. I'm sure the AFL wouldn't release this information unless a lot of pressure was put on them.

[Solar]

Just for fun

2009
484 frees for
421 frees against (+63)

2008
501 frees for
523 frees against (-22)

2007
461 frees for
414 frees agains (+47)

2006
382 frees for
397 frees against (-15)

2005
470 frees for
401 frees against (+69)

2004
372 frees for
359 frees against (+13)

So one thing that can be seen (apart from the fact that an extra 5 frees on average are paid in the past 2 years) is that when we have had successful seasons (top 4) we have been getting between one to three more free kicks on average. Intreresting that even in the year that Thomas came out agains tthe umpires we only got 15 less over the year, which is less then one a game.

By my reading the top 4 teams in the past 5-7 years have been getting 2-3 more free kicks a game. This makes sense as not only are they first to the ball, in packs and getting the ball but the lowr sides need to trangress to keep up with the better sides.

So to have a top 4 side (outside on percentage) having 44 free's against more after only 7 rounds goes against everything that has been normal in the past 5-7 years.

The closest was the "unsociable" hawks in 2008 who gave away 588 free's over 25 games and gained 492 frees for (- 96). But thats only an extra 2 frees given away a week. Compare this to the VERY unsociable saints who are giving away 5 more free's per game.

How ever you put it, this first 7 rounds has been remarkable when it's come to umpiring decisons. Someone at the club needs to do something because 5 extra frees can cost goals and games

[Saint Bev]

Its always a very grey area with the umpires. Have to be so careful what you say and we don't want to upset them even more.

I always say, you create your own luck, some go your way, some go against. However, the blatant lack of frees to Milne and Schnider is a disgrace.

Or maybe we could just play better, smash everyone like we use to and we won't give a darn about the umpires.

[BAM! (shhhh)]

Personally, I'd rather be in the - for free kicks at any given time that the +. They tend to work out over a period of time, so I'm not going to get too bent out of shape about it during the week. During a game it can be aggravating, but at a game you live moment to moment, and that's part of the fun.

However, a couple of points, as there are a couple of changed interpretations that are probably hurting the Saints free kick count, ability to apply pressure, and ability to win.

1) The reluctance to call holding the ball. The Saints are probably one of the best tackling sides in the comp from a skill perspective. It's something we've targetted, and throuhout our lineup are guys who are very good at tackling the man without giving up head high contact or letting the ball spill free.

2) Head high. Both ways. The AFL is being far more tolerant on the classic Luke Ball/Joel Selwood style frees where the ballwinner charges headfirst into an opponent. IMO, this is a good thing. However, as noted above, our tackling is pretty good in this area, and we also have a lot of mature inside ballwinners who are very good at winning these free kicks. In particular, I think David Armitage would be a no brainer first 22 were this not occuring: that kid has a hard head!

3) Rushed behinds. The rule is now something most people are pretty clear on. It's only the Hodge/Bowden scenario which is a free kick. With the confusion last year, nobody wanted to rush one, which played into the hands of the forward press, leading to tackles, contests, and free kicks.

2 and 3 are probably good things for footy, but the 2009 interpretations played into the Saints hands, where the 2010 interpretations do not. #1 is something that one predicts will change again, multiple times, before the end of the year.

It's not a conspiracy, it simply exacerbates a problem: we are not as agressive at the ball carrier as we were a year ago.

[Eastern]

I would like to see the AFL's stats of incorrect free kicks - what was missed and what was incorrectly paid.

These are the stats that REALLY matter. I think these are released to the clubs "IN CONFIDENCE" if a legitimate application is made.

I reckon that the AFL has real fears that umpire recruitment and the AFL brand would be damaged if these stats were to be publicly released !!

[ralphsmith]

We need some incredibly obsessed fan to review the for and against for 50/50 decisions for 2010. That's the one that really matters.

How many times do umpires fail to see Stephen Milne or Schneider has a neck?

[matrix]

waites big sit on shoulders with that mark last week....

hands in the back
never paid in a gazillion years

thats been shitting me since last week.....

carry on

[Solar]

We need some incredibly obsessed fan to review the for and against for 50/50 decisions for 2010. That's the one that really matters.

How many times do umpires fail to see Stephen Milne or Schneider has a neck?

milne gets on average over the past season in a top side 1/3 of the free's other small forwards get. On the other hand he gives away 3 times as many frees then he receives. The other interesting stat in that schneider has been given half as many free's then he averaged before clapping at the umpire.

Concerning stats

[spert]

Just play winning footy and the umpires become sort of irrelevant

[bergholt]

waites big sit on shoulders with that mark last week....

hands in the back
never paid in a gazillion years

nah, you're wrong. the free kick is paid if you fail to take the mark, but if you take the mark it's ignored. that's been the rule for years now. no-one wants to see good marks like that taken out of the game.

[Dis Believer]

waites big sit on shoulders with that mark last week....

hands in the back
never paid in a gazillion years

nah, you're wrong. the free kick is paid if you fail to take the mark, but if you take the mark it's ignored. that's been the rule for years now. no-one wants to see good marks like that taken out of the game.

Agreed, but isn't that bizarre? We openly chose to intepret the same rule differently dependent on the outcome of the action.

[bergholt]

waites big sit on shoulders with that mark last week....

hands in the back
never paid in a gazillion years

nah, you're wrong. the free kick is paid if you fail to take the mark, but if you take the mark it's ignored. that's been the rule for years now. no-one wants to see good marks like that taken out of the game.

Agreed, but isn't that bizarre? We openly chose to intepret the same rule differently dependent on the outcome of the action.

yup. this is what makes it hard to umpire this game, i reckon.

the reason hands in the back came in was because it was hard to adjudicate push in the back - too much staging was occurring. then a new problem was created. dunno what the answer is.