The 'Over Reliance on Roo' Thread

[rodgerfox]

so let me get this right we have one of the most dominant players in the comp and thats a bad thing according to you ?

As I said, go back and read what I've written.

Brisbane have won 3 flags in four grand finals Freo have done sfa ... whats your point ?

How many did Brisbane win by relying solely on the boot of Brown? None.

My point re Freo is that they may have relied on Pavlich, and it hasn't got them anywhere.

so westcoasts entire game plan wasnt directed around judd ... funny how many finals have they been involved in without him ?? and im sorry we have had two losses without Roo but also 2 wins without him so how can you say we dont function at all without him ? how did we beat the current second placed team ? how did we beat the pre season flag favorites ??

Go back and read what I've written.

you havent writen anything you have asked alot of questions and you have basically stated we are no good without Roo so answer this if we are soo reliant on one bloke how did we beat the dockers ?? how did we beat the Dogs ? how did we beat hawthorn last year ?

there is a common sentiment that when Stkilda play well Milne plays well does that mean we are tooo reliant on milne ?? cause when he plays well the team plays well ? naah thats just Milne going missing in the big games

* Sigh *

Ok, how's this...

We're perfect. Will win every game and the flag this year easily. There are no chinks in our armor at all and any time we lose it's pure bad luck - and if we don't win by 10 goals that was just simply part of the plan.

Good night.

[plugger66]

No wonder you are saying goodnight. You only every posts problems but never your solution to our supposed problems.

[st_Trav_ofWA]

so let me get this right we have one of the most dominant players in the comp and thats a bad thing according to you ?

As I said, go back and read what I've written.

Brisbane have won 3 flags in four grand finals Freo have done sfa ... whats your point ?

How many did Brisbane win by relying solely on the boot of Brown? None.

My point re Freo is that they may have relied on Pavlich, and it hasn't got them anywhere.

so westcoasts entire game plan wasnt directed around judd ... funny how many finals have they been involved in without him ?? and im sorry we have had two losses without Roo but also 2 wins without him so how can you say we dont function at all without him ? how did we beat the current second placed team ? how did we beat the pre season flag favorites ??

Go back and read what I've written.

you havent writen anything you have asked alot of questions and you have basically stated we are no good without Roo so answer this if we are soo reliant on one bloke how did we beat the dockers ?? how did we beat the Dogs ? how did we beat hawthorn last year ?

there is a common sentiment that when Stkilda play well Milne plays well does that mean we are tooo reliant on milne ?? cause when he plays well the team plays well ? naah thats just Milne going missing in the big games

* Sigh *

Ok, how's this...

We're perfect. Will win every game and the flag this year easily. There are no chinks in our armor at all and any time we lose it's pure bad luck - and if we don't win by 10 goals that was just simply part of the plan.

Good night.

your like a toddler RF ... as you always say it insnt black or white im not saying we are perfect but what i am saying is NO TEAM IS PERFECT you have a somewhat pervesed joy in higlighting our problems and seem to think we are the only ones with those problems ... you state our over reliance on Roo is unhealthy but i ask you what would you rather we do ? should we trade all our great players just in case we become reliant on them ??

what is it that makes a great player great ? i would say the ability to pull hs team through when times get tough the ability to lead from the front ... yes we are missing Roo but are we a blubbering mess without him ??

have we turned into a rabble without Roo ?
is Lenny letting the team down with his leadership ?
is our midfiels and defencive structures falling apart because we are missing our CHF ?

we are in a funk at the moment but its a very lazy herald sun type excuse to say its all because Roo is out injured .. yes we are better with him but our form drop off is more to do with our pressure and tackling pressure dropping off

[markp]

We rely on Roo?... no shyte! How often has a team won a flag without their very best player in the side?

We were 2-0 when Roo went down, we're now 5-2 (and as pointed out in other threads, after a tough stretch of our draw)... not a bad return, even if he had been in the side the whole time you would not be too unhappy with that.

In all likelihood; no Roo = no flag... no Lenny = no flag... no BJ = no flag....

The solution?... get him right, and hope he (and they) stay right.

[Saintsfan]

No wonder you are saying goodnight. You only every posts problems but never your solution to our supposed problems.

Good point cleaner

[rodgerfox]

We rely on Roo?... no shyte! How often has a team won a flag without their very best player in the side?

We were 2-0 when Roo went down, we're now 5-2 (and as pointed out in other threads, after a tough stretch of our draw)... not a bad return, even if he had been in the side the whole time you would not be too unhappy with that.

In all likelihood; no Roo = no flag... no Lenny = no flag... no BJ = no flag....

The solution?... get him right, and hope he (and they) stay right.

Ok, I'll repeat myself.....

It's not that he's out of the team therefore we're shiit that is the problem. I raised it last year, that I felt we couldn't win unless he won the game for us.

To me, that's a very unhealthy reliance.

Lyon didn't appear to do anything to remedy this - but instead when it got tough in a game, instead of trying something different, we'd 'bomb it to Roo' to get us out of the shiit.

Lucky for us, he had a great year. Lucky for us, he had a great finals series.

Unluckily for us, he had a bad GF. We had 16 more Inside %0s (again, sorry to repeat myself) but could only manage 3 more Scoring Shots without him dominating.

That's damning and has to be fixed.


Having your star player out completely is going to hurt - but I can't remember any flag team relying solely on 1 player to play very well to win them a game.

Where I believe our reliance is unhealthy, is that not only do we need him in the side - we need him to dominate in order to win.

I think this shows significant flaws in the way our team has been built.

[saintsRrising]

It's not that he's out of the team therefore we're shiit that is the problem. I raised it last year, that I felt we couldn't win unless he won the game for us.
.

err we have won without him, and this year as well...

[markp]

I raised it last year, that I felt we couldn't win unless he won the game for us.

We've beaten the pies, freo and the dogs without him... there goes that theory.

[saintsRrising]

Of relavnce to this... thred..at the start of the year Judd did not play and the Carlton "faithfull" were calling for Ratten's head.

Now that Judd is back...Ratten is a coaching genius.

Brown was dominating the competition...and the Lions were being talked about as contenders. Now after a few so-so games from Brown the Lions win-loss has takena battering.

One player if he is good enough can make a difference.

And Roo, Brown and Judd are all that good.

A successful team needs a lot more than one super-elite player. Buta super elite player will alwys make a difference.

[rodgerfox]

Oh f**k me.

Fair dinkum.

[bob__71]

Wow....carn Rodger your better than this

[Phoenix]

Buta super elite player will alwys make a difference.

Didn't work in 2009.[/list]

[Finna]

Can we now say that we've rolled the dice over the past 18 months by building a game plan around one guy?

He won the Collingwood final off his own boot.

He won the Dogs prelim off his own boot.

He was injured in the GF and although we managed 16 more Inside 50s - we only had 3 more scoring shots. That's a damming stat.
Many still blame poor conversion, but we only had 3 more shots. It was the inability to score without Roo that killed us.

Now fast forward to this year, and I think it's fair to say we're labouring and look completely lost without him.


Does anyone agree? Have we made a major mistake by putting all our eggs in one basket?

And if so, can we fix it this year before it's too late?

You've been waiting (and hoping) for this to happen just so you could write your 'I am right' thread. Get over it and get behind the team FFS - You appear to want us to fail!

[plugger66]

Oh f**k me.

Fair dinkum.

Still got nothing as usual apart from complaints about set ups. You really give nothing.

[maverick]

Oh f**k me.

Fair dinkum.

Still got nothing as usual apart from complaints about set ups. You really give nothing.

Except of course incessant rambling......

[Finna]

It's obvious that teams have their stars and when they don't play their absence will be felt.

But we have an unhealthy reliance on Roo.

It's not just when he isn't on the park that we struggle - it's when he doesn't star we seem to struggle.

Last year our form mimicked his almost to the letter.


When it got close, our only option was to go to him.


That's the issue. I was hoping that losing him would result in a positive as it would force us to be able to play well when he comes back and his output is down.

How do you rate the performance against Freo?

I agree with your comments regarding a potential positive coming out of his absence.

I still dont think its too late for that to happen.

So much can change in footy. 10 weeks from now we could be sitting here 15-2 and loving life again with Roo coming back into the team. We could also be 5-12 and completely shattered.

To early to call yet....I am prepared to see what the next 4-6 weeks bring but I have faith (perhaps misguided - time will tell) in our coaches and leaders to get the ship back on course.

[rodgerfox]

Wow....carn Rodger your better than this

Excuse me??

[rodgerfox]

It's obvious that teams have their stars and when they don't play their absence will be felt.

But we have an unhealthy reliance on Roo.

It's not just when he isn't on the park that we struggle - it's when he doesn't star we seem to struggle.

Last year our form mimicked his almost to the letter.


When it got close, our only option was to go to him.


That's the issue. I was hoping that losing him would result in a positive as it would force us to be able to play well when he comes back and his output is down.

How do you rate the performance against Freo?

I agree with your comments regarding a potential positive coming out of his absence.

I still dont think its too late for that to happen.

So much can change in footy. 10 weeks from now we could be sitting here 15-2 and loving life again with Roo coming back into the team. We could also be 5-12 and completely shattered.

To early to call yet....I am prepared to see what the next 4-6 weeks bring but I have faith (perhaps misguided - time will tell) in our coaches and leaders to get the ship back on course.

Freo was Ok.

Good in that we won. Positive in that we kicked a good score without Roo.

Oddly, we haven't been able to do it again.


I was really pleased with that win - although puzzled by conceding nearly 100 points.

[bob__71]

Wow....carn Rodger your better than this

Excuse me??

I was saying I thought you were above a common Hissy Fit

[rodgerfox]

It's obvious that teams have their stars and when they don't play their absence will be felt.

But we have an unhealthy reliance on Roo.

It's not just when he isn't on the park that we struggle - it's when he doesn't star we seem to struggle.

Last year our form mimicked his almost to the letter.


When it got close, our only option was to go to him.


That's the issue. I was hoping that losing him would result in a positive as it would force us to be able to play well when he comes back and his output is down.

How do you rate the performance against Freo?

I agree with your comments regarding a potential positive coming out of his absence.

I still dont think its too late for that to happen.

So much can change in footy. 10 weeks from now we could be sitting here 15-2 and loving life again with Roo coming back into the team. We could also be 5-12 and completely shattered.

To early to call yet....I am prepared to see what the next 4-6 weeks bring but I have faith (perhaps misguided - time will tell) in our coaches and leaders to get the ship back on course.

Ahhh, how pleasant to come across someone that can objectively read a post and respond sensibly.

What you said, I agree with and is the exact premise of the OP.

[rodgerfox]

Wow....carn Rodger your better than this

Excuse me??

I was saying I thought you were above a common Hissy Fit

Hissy fit?

[SainterK]

It's obvious that teams have their stars and when they don't play their absence will be felt.

But we have an unhealthy reliance on Roo.

It's not just when he isn't on the park that we struggle - it's when he doesn't star we seem to struggle.

Last year our form mimicked his almost to the letter.


When it got close, our only option was to go to him.


That's the issue. I was hoping that losing him would result in a positive as it would force us to be able to play well when he comes back and his output is down.

How do you rate the performance against Freo?

I agree with your comments regarding a potential positive coming out of his absence.

I still dont think its too late for that to happen.

So much can change in footy. 10 weeks from now we could be sitting here 15-2 and loving life again with Roo coming back into the team. We could also be 5-12 and completely shattered.

To early to call yet....I am prepared to see what the next 4-6 weeks bring but I have faith (perhaps misguided - time will tell) in our coaches and leaders to get the ship back on course.

Freo was Ok.

Good in that we won. Positive in that we kicked a good score without Roo.

Oddly, we haven't been able to do it again.


I was really pleased with that win - although puzzled by conceding nearly 100 points.

Have we even gone with same setup since though, Gram went out injured after that game, Goddard hasn't played forward since.

Zac, Gwilt and Fisher were all rotated through the forward line that night, it may have unsettled the backline.

PS - Can you ease off the f-bombs please, thanks

[saintsRrising]

I think this shows significant flaws in the way our team has been built.

The logic is flawed in the assertion that Lyon has only tried to build a forward line based on Roo.

Quite rightly he has tried to make the most out of one of competitions best players.

But this whole idea that Lyon is only foccussing only Roo is just completely mistaken based on the facts.

For example:

* 3 talls with GTrain, Kosi and Roo was tried.
* Kosi has been used as a No 2 Banana to Roo as the No1 Banana.
* A number of players have been tried to play in the third forward role vacated by the prematurely retired Hamill.
... * Charlie Gardiner. Ok-ish but could not kick goals
... * Gwilt was given an extended run last year, but like Charlie could not score goals
... *Dempster
* J Allen recruited but forced out by a freak hip injury. Most likely would have been hitting his straps in our forward line now.
* Stanley who was touted as a future ruckman last year in 2010 has been groomed instead as a future forward. The decision to do this was made well prior to Roo's injury.
* Other young forwards have been recruited in Lynch, Cahill, Heyne and Archer all picked up recently.
* T Walsh recuited as an International Rookie as a potential future key forward.
* With a "third forward" not playing well another three small forward structure of Milne, Schneider and Mini was deployed.
* Last trade period Lovett was recuited to be another attacking goal-scoring option and path to goals.



Any "neutral" review of Lyon's actions would reveal that Lyon has endeavoured to build a multi-facetted forward line.

That Lyon has also in that period sought to maximise the extreme talent of Roo is hardly surprising to all bar one.

[rodgerfox]

I think this shows significant flaws in the way our team has been built.

The logic is flawed in the assertion that Lyon has only tried to build a forward line based on Roo.

Quite rightly he has tried to make the most out of one of competitions best players.

But this whole idea that Lyon is only foccussing only Roo is just completely mistaken based on the facts.

For example:

* 3 talls with GTrain, Kosi and Roo was tried.
* Kosi has been used as a No 2 Banana to Roo as the No1 Banana.
* A number of players have been tried to play in the third forward role vacated by the prematurely retired Hamill.
... * Charlie Gardiner. Ok-ish but could not kick goals
... * Gwilt was given an extended run last year, but like Charlie could not score goals
... *Dempster
* J Allen recruited but forced out by a freak hip injury. Most likely would have been hitting his straps in our forward line now.
* Stanley who was touted as a future ruckman last year in 2010 has been groomed instead as a future forward. The decision to do this was made well prior to Roo's injury.
* Other young forwards have been recruited in Lynch, Cahill, Heyne and Archer all picked up recently.
* T Walsh recuited as an International Rookie as a potential future key forward.
* With a "third forward" not playing well another three small forward structure of Milne, Schneider and Mini was deployed.
* Last trade period Lovett was recuited to be another attacking goal-scoring option and path to goals.



Any "neutral" review of Lyon's actions would reveal that Lyon has endeavoured to build a multi-facetted forward line.

That Lyon has also in that period sought to maximise the extreme talent of Roo is hardly surprising to all bar one.

Lyon may have tried to build a multi-faceted forward line - and so he freakin' should. He's the head coach for god's sake.

Fact is - he hasn't.


As for maximising Roo's talent....again of course he should. But it's not just about getting Roo to play well, it's about us winning a flag and being successful for an extended period of time.

It's about maximising every player's abilities to make than happen. At this stage it's a big fail in this area.

Lots of suckers (including you) spoke at lengths of Lyon building a 'team' that didn't rely on individuals like his predecessor.
Apparently, this was a big no-no and we needed a much more team focussed approach where individual players weren't relied upon for their brilliance to win us games.

The worrying thing is, we managed to nearly pinch a prelim with 6 of our starting 18 not playing under the 'individual brilliance' approach - but can't beat Port and Carlton with 1 player missing!!


I believe we're more reliant on individual brilliance now, than we've ever been before.

[na exa]

Any "neutral" review of Grants actions would reveal that Grant has endeavoured to build a multi-facetted ruck squad.

not that i wanna cause trouble , but what about that one








i so miss andrew.
and rixy.