Midfield the issue.....

[Teflon]

For mine we can blame Kosi and fwds all night long and defenders too but midfield was deplorable tonight and lets face it we are 1 paced.

Bombers will play the same style as carlton - fast,play on at all times and try and stop us from setting up...the difference is their midfield aint as good as Carltons.

Hayes has to do it all on his own - Jones, Goddard, Dal Santo, Montagna were avg at best and ALWAYS second to the ball. It looked like they had enough first use from rucks but just couldnt read a clearance to save their lives.

If the midfield pressure aint there the ball zings from our fwd to defence far to easy an they score.

When our game was at its best our fwd line pressure was amazing but also the pressure on sides trying to come back inside via the corridor also forced the turn over - that has been lacking all year for mine....

We looked tired tonight imo and yet had what 10 days off.....weird.

[Spinner]

Teflon, all the other threads on this site should be removed....So that everyone can see only this one.

My words exactly - Got half way starting a new thread then decided I couldnt be f***ed.



Anyone blaming Kosi, both here and at the ground has no idea. Carlton have an elite midfield no doubt.....And ours struggled immensely.


Our midfield is our biggest concern. Has been the last month.

[SainterK]

Do we think Armitage being dropped, and bringing in a underdone Grammy was showing enough respect to Carlton tonight?

[Sam23]

Agree midfield is a worry, were soundly beaten again tonight.

Koschitzke is a worry tho, to easily out positioned and goes to ground to easily.

Really hope Dal, Monty, Goddard, Gram step up next week.

[bigcarl]

midfields tend to lift when they know they'll get a return for their efforts.

by that i mean someone on the end of it who will get it and kick a goal. kosi does not provide that.

i'm not denying the midfield was poor, but i think our impotent forward set up is of equal concern.

[Spinner]

midfields tend to lift when they know they'll get a return for their efforts.

by that i mean someone on the end of it who will get it and kick a goal. kosi does not provide that.

i'm not denying the midfield was poor, but i think our impotent forward set up is of equal concern.

Poor analysis.

We got absolutely smashed in the middle.

We could have had Fevola in the goal square - it wouldnt have made a difference....

[saintsRrising]

It was not just the midfield. We got smashed all over the ground.

Three quarters of our team put in very poor efforts tonight and Lyon was clearly out-coached as well.

Add to that that the Blues were red hot and you get a massacre.


Midfield was poor. But they were no lone rangers.
Hayes and rRy were good.

A few others like Gram, Gardi, Milne tried hard.
But most were poor and got pantsted.

Our gameplane only works through workrate and that was absent tonight with many passengers.

On coaching for example Blues avoided going anywhere near Fisher who was on Hoilihan. Coaching honours to Ratten.

Baker against the many small caused many many mis-matches in our back line.
Gilbert got creamed by waite eraly on and it was all bad from there.

[dcstkfc]

Do we think Armitage being dropped, and bringing in a underdone Grammy was showing enough respect to Carlton tonight?

I realised this early, bad call, with Carlton's tackling pressure and intensity, Armo was the kind of guy that might have helped a bit.

Only a bit though, we were ordinary, they were excellent.

[Teflon]

Do we think Armitage being dropped, and bringing in a underdone Grammy was showing enough respect to Carlton tonight?

It wasnt the difference but IMO was a mistake and he certainly could have goven Hayes a chop out at times.

Our midfield is about to be overtaken by more than just Geelong (who still have the best for mine) unless we unearth some additional class in there fast.

In fairness I do believe the club tried to fix that and pace with Lovett.....and I maintain he would have been absolute icing on the cake for guys like Hayes......just imagine his explosive speed bursting from packs toward goals breaking lines.........FFFFFFRRRRRRRKKKK.....it annoys me...what a complete MORON.

Midfields gota stepup bigtime for mine.

[Griggsy]

I was gonna say defense was the problem. I've only seen the 1st quarter so far in perth but its like they forgot how to play 1v1. The pressure they are feeling without the zone around them was telling. Looking side to side to handpass with noone there.

[bigcarl]

midfields tend to lift when they know they'll get a return for their efforts.

by that i mean someone on the end of it who will get it and kick a goal. kosi does not provide that.

i'm not denying the midfield was poor, but i think our impotent forward set up is of equal concern.

Poor analysis.

We got absolutely smashed in the middle.

We could have had Fevola in the goal square - it wouldnt have made a difference....

don't give me poor analysis. this is much the same team that lost three times last season with one major difference.

no riewoldt.

my conclusion is that the forward line is a major concern.

[SaintWal]

Agree, I thought Lyon had his pants pulled down tonight.

I hate the "Kosi must Go" "Dal should be dropped" threads. Kosi is never going to kick a bag of goals running from the wing back to the forward line. Dal needs protection as does Ablett. If a tagger scrags the way Dal was scragged tonight the other Geelong mids step in to exert influence. We don't.

Getting back to the coaching, Ratten was clear in his tactics. Play the Saints Zone to Carlton advantage. Kick long to the smaller forwards whenever they can. Move the ball quickly to leading forwards or bomb long and rely on your crumbers. Push wide when pressed. How many times did Judd get the ball in the forward pocket from the kick in?

Lyon is good enough. The team is good enough however things need to change or we will be the original one trick pony.

It was not just the midfield. We got smashed all over the ground.

Three quarters of our team put in very poor efforts tonight and Lyon was clearly out-coached as well.

Add to that that the Blues were red hot and you get a massacre.


Midfield was poor. But they were no lone rangers.
Hayes and rRy were good.

A few others like Gram, Gardi, Milne tried hard.
But most were poor and got pantsted.

Our gameplane only works through workrate and that was absent tonight with many passengers.

On coaching for example Blues avoided going anywhere near Fisher who was on Hoilihan. Coaching honours to Ratten.

Baker against the many small caused many many mis-matches in our back line.
Gilbert got creamed by waite eraly on and it was all bad from there.

[mbogo]

I have seen no stats but Goddard seemed to get it a bit ... Monty below par ... Hayes tried hard as always ... Ball is missed badly until we can get someone to replace his in and under clearances = and tackles. Dal was our worst player when we needed him. We need more than a forward ...
Kossie - what is his role?

[bobmurray]

midfields tend to lift when they know they'll get a return for their efforts.

by that i mean someone on the end of it who will get it and kick a goal. kosi does not provide that.

i'm not denying the midfield was poor, but i think our impotent forward set up is of equal concern.

Poor analysis.

We got absolutely smashed in the middle.

We could have had Fevola in the goal square - it wouldnt have made a difference....

I dont think it is a poor analysis...the forward line hasn't functioned for weeks,there were so many rotations down there but apart from Milne there is a real lack of quality....some of those Carlton backs had a real night out....

It has been said many times that StKilda has a great defensive unit but one out they can be found out...we saw that tonight....

What really concerns me most is the lack of development..we don't seem to have any quality players pushing up so we have to go with what we've got,including those that are badly out of form or who have almost seen the game pass them by.....

Should have won it last year....

Lucky to beat the Pies and we were lucky the Dogs choked....


Different to last season thats for sure....hope we aren't doing a Hawthorn....

[lefty]

Midfield was a big issue, without Armo, we struggle, yet he somehow got dropped? I mean, why can't anyone just hold a tackle against Judd? Was very crap.

Sam Gilbert has lost all confidence and needs to find something.

Kosi needs to learn to lead to the fat side, rather than just standing there getting the ball popped up over his head and loosing.

4 out of the 6 forwards need to kick goals and do something, as I only see Milne and Kosi are targets, the rest don't have enough influence.

We need to let some of the forwards hold their position rather than flood, so we can then kick to a forward, rather than backwards/sideways.

The entire team is in cruise mode and need to be belted. Not enough tackles/pressure compared to last year, too much fumbling of the ball which really made me angry, kicks out on the full, just goes on and on.

[borderbarry]

I disagree with all of you. I thought our lack of pace was our downfall, as it was last year.

[Teflon]

It was not just the midfield. We got smashed all over the ground.

Three quarters of our team put in very poor efforts tonight and Lyon was clearly out-coached as well.

Add to that that the Blues were red hot and you get a massacre.


Midfield was poor. But they were no lone rangers.
Hayes and rRy were good.

A few others like Gram, Gardi, Milne tried hard.
But most were poor and got pantsted.

Our gameplane only works through workrate and that was absent tonight with many passengers.

On coaching for example Blues avoided going anywhere near Fisher who was on Hoilihan. Coaching honours to Ratten.

Baker against the many small caused many many mis-matches in our back line.
Gilbert got creamed by waite eraly on and it was all bad from there.

This is not an isolated trend and the rot started in the centre from qtr 1 for mine. To simplistic to just say "all over the park" and doesnt identify where the problems lie.

Our defence was isolated one out on many more occasions than they were used to - why??? no pressure from midfield at stoppages and in the centre. I dont know how many times I was screaming for someone, anyone to get a friggin clearance only to see Carlton take it away time and again - and they had the opportunity through rucks but wasted it.

How many clear fwd entries did we win from midfield to give Kosi any chance?

[maverick]

Good analysis.
Joey quiet
Dal ordinary
Ray ran round in circles
Mini & Steven barely got it
Gram was OK
BJ OK
Jones tagged well, just didn't get it

We basically got smashed inside, even the clearances we won were under pressure. Armo was missed tonight IMO.

Our half forwards working up are struggling, this is where we need some speed.

[wasaintsfan]

midfields tend to lift when they know they'll get a return for their efforts.

by that i mean someone on the end of it who will get it and kick a goal. kosi does not provide that.

i'm not denying the midfield was poor, but i think our impotent forward set up is of equal concern.

Poor analysis.

We got absolutely smashed in the middle.

We could have had Fevola in the goal square - it wouldnt have made a difference....

don't give me poor analysis. this is much the same team that lost three times last season with one major difference.

no riewoldt.

my conclusion is that the forward line is a major concern.

its also missing one big thing confidence

i stated our midfield was the issue in another thread and it is

the backlines not getting the support it used to and the entries forward well are pathetic and again the press they do isnt upto scratch so ball isnt being held up forward

players like montagna king gardner jones dal santo ray even gram fisher and gilbert are well below their best they arent running like they did they arent taking the game one

dawson is lacking in confidence down back raph is well raph he has all his highlights and lowlights over the course of the game but again the prob is the mids

against freo they attacked but didnt defend... then against the power they defended not attacked and when they did it was poorly same as the dogs

this week they did neither

only mid that can honestly hold his head high tonight is hayes

[bigcarl]

its also missing one big thing confidence

i stated our midfield was the issue in another thread and it is

the backlines not getting the support it used to and the entries forward well are pathetic and again the press they do isnt upto scratch so ball isnt being held up forward

players like montagna king gardner jones dal santo ray even gram fisher and gilbert are well below their best they arent running like they did they arent taking the game one

dawson is lacking in confidence down back raph is well raph he has all his highlights and lowlights over the course of the game but again the prob is the mids

against freo they attacked but didnt defend... then against the power they defended not attacked and when they did it was poorly same as the dogs

this week they did neither

only mid that can honestly hold his head high tonight is hayes

amazing that the loss of one player can make such a difference to a club. we look a different side with riewoldt constantly presenting at chf. who can we get to replace him until round 18?

[wasaintsfan]

only thing thatll fix our forward atm is the mids lifting their rate to that of what it was last year...
tbh we shouldve been doing our usual spread in attack then have milne\schnider running with kosi back down to the forward line kosi to take a 2 on 1 in the air with his man and their spare and milne or schnieder taking the ball at their feet....
thats what we were so good at last year going forward but the mids dont have the confidence to kick it down there and when they do they shank the kick

also last year between roo and kosi and the rucks they rested the marks stuck in the big contests until the midfield gets their confidence the whole team will fail to kick big scores

[bobmurray]

Champion Datas statistics on the way StKilda's forward line is functioning makes for very interesting reading....

One interesting point was in the first 3 weeks StKilda took 39 marks inside forward 50......since then it has grabbed just 16....that number wouldn't have increased too much against Carlton....

Our points for per game has dropped from an early 2009 average of 110 to 100 by seasons end and this season it is 85,mostly due to having the best accuracy in the competition...

the ball is getting down there but it is coming out at break neck speed.Carlton went coast to coast a few times Monday night and goaled from the rebound..

[bigcarl]

Champion Datas statistics on the way StKilda's forward line is functioning makes for very interesting reading....

One interesting point was in the first 3 weeks StKilda took 39 marks inside forward 50......since then it has grabbed just 16....that number wouldn't have increased too much against Carlton....

Our points for per game has dropped from an early 2009 average of 110 to 100 by seasons end and this season it is 85,mostly due to having the best accuracy in the competition...

the ball is getting down there but it is coming out at break neck speed.Carlton went coast to coast a few times Monday night and goaled from the rebound..

yep, the forward line is a major concern. no surprise really, since we've devoted no resources to it to cover the loss of the best player in the competition.

[wasaintsfan]

which again is due to the lack of midfield pressure last year we locked them in there by blocking it up around the middle of the ground and let the milnes schnieders eddys etc do their job or if it came out it generally went back in...

and its also hard to mark a ball when it goes 2 metres over your head when on a lead

[bigcarl]

it's a lot to ask of a midfielder to bust a gut getting the ball to the forwards if his efforts aren't rewarded by someone on the end of it getting a goal.

you've got to have both. a winning midfield and a potent forward line.