Make Koschitzke Saints No.1 ruckman: Thomas

[saintsRrising]

We were smashed in the ruck for most of the night and he then clearly won all 3 of the centre bounces he contested..

Smashed in the ruck would seem to be tad strong from what I recollect.

While stats do not mean everything:

Hudson 19 HO
Roughed 3

Gardi 13
King 13
Kosi 3

Total all Players: Saints 35 to Dogs 29.


To me Kosi main advantage when in the ruck isgenerally more his field play. But yes his ruckwork against tiring Dogs was quite good.

[IluvHarvey]

We were smashed in the ruck for most of the night and he then clearly won all 3 of the centre bounces he contested..

Smashed in the ruck would seem to be tad strong from what I recollect.

While stats do not mean everything:

Hudson 19 HO
Roughed 3

Gardi 13
King 13
Kosi 3

Total all Players: Saints 35 to Dogs 29.


To me Kosi main advantage when in the ruck isgenerally more his field play. But yes his ruckwork against tiring Dogs was quite good.

What Kosi gave us in the ruck was second efforts. Which had not been there all night and in fact Hudson was killing us in this area. I'm still not convinced that Kosi should be played there frequently but it definately worked on Friday night.

[AnythingsPossibleSaints]

We were smashed in the ruck for most of the night and he then clearly won all 3 of the centre bounces he contested..

Smashed in the ruck would seem to be tad strong from what I recollect.

While stats do not mean everything:

Hudson 19 HO
Roughed 3

Gardi 13
King 13
Kosi 3

Total all Players: Saints 35 to Dogs 29.


To me Kosi main advantage when in the ruck isgenerally more his field play. But yes his ruckwork against tiring Dogs was quite good.

I was sitting in Aisle 35, smack bang on the wing/directly in line with the centre square, on level 3, 3 rows back, so I had a brilliant view of the centre bounces and time and time again Hudson pushed King and/or Gardi out of the way, like they were 17 or something. I was shocked at how often he did that and won decisive hitouts. Then, when Kosi finally went in there, it was like the polar-opposite. He won them all decisively. We may have won more hitouts on the night, but I doubt they were anywhere near as decisive.
I'm not saying Kosi would do this every week, but, as you're obviously aware, he can then do major damage around the ground. Aside from the general benefit of this, it also gets his confidence up for when he goes back to the forward line. I don't believe that what Kingy's doing is as beneficial overall and when we play these quick teams it's bad news, especially without Gram there.

[SainterK]

We were smashed in the ruck for most of the night and he then clearly won all 3 of the centre bounces he contested..

Smashed in the ruck would seem to be tad strong from what I recollect.

While stats do not mean everything:

Hudson 19 HO
Roughed 3

Gardi 13
King 13
Kosi 3

Total all Players: Saints 35 to Dogs 29.


To me Kosi main advantage when in the ruck isgenerally more his field play. But yes his ruckwork against tiring Dogs was quite good.

I was sitting in Aisle 35, smack bang on the wing/directly in line with the centre square, on level 3, 3 rows back, so I had a brilliant view of the centre bounces and time and time again Hudson pushed Kosi and/or Gardi out of the way, like they were 17 or something. I was shocked at how often he did that and won decisive hitouts. Then, when Kosi finally went in there, it was like the polar-opposite. He won them all decisively. We may have won more hitouts on the night, but I doubt they were anywhere near as decisive.
I'm not saying Kosi would do this every week, but, as you're obviously aware, he can then do major damage around the ground. Aside from the general benefit of this, it also gets his confidence up for when he goes back to the forward line. I don't believe that what Kingy's doing is as benefitial overall and when we play these quick teams it's bad news, especially without Gram there.

I assume you meant King? I agree it's a concern that our big guys were beaten soundly on Friday night...

I also agree that Kosi in the ruck is a card up the sleeve to be played at times or in short bursts, and not used to a point that it becomes predictable.

[AnythingsPossibleSaints]

I wonder if Kosi'd have been sent in there earlier on Friday night if Grant Thomas hadn't been the one to suggest it earlier in the week? Better late than never, though.

[SainterK]

I wonder if Kosi'd have been sent in there earlier on Friday night if Grant Thomas hadn't been the one to suggest it earlier in the week? Better late than never, though.

Given that he played in bursts in the ruck against Sydney in round one, I am not sure Grant can take the credit for the recent suggestion.

The timing of the move against the Bulldogs was exactly right IMO...

[markp]

I wonder if Kosi'd have been sent in there earlier on Friday night if Grant Thomas hadn't been the one to suggest it earlier in the week? Better late than never, though.

Given that he played in bursts in the ruck against Sydney in round one, I am not sure Grant can take the credit for the recent suggestion.

The timing of the move against the Bulldogs was exactly right IMO...

Yup, started the season in the ruck at the very first bounce.

The idea the RL would hold off on a tactical move because of anything GT said is beyond laughable.

[AnythingsPossibleSaints]

No it's not, he has an ego, like everyone else. Unless you think he's some kind of super-human.
And if the Bulldogs had kicked any of the numerous chances they to put us away, the horse would have bolted by the 20 minute mark of the last, when he was finally moved in there.
It would have been much better if it had happened a lot earlier, IMO.

[SainterK]

No it's not, he has an ego, like everyone else. Unless you think he's some kind of super-human.
And if the Bulldogs had kicked any of the numerous chances they to put us away, the horse would have bolted by the 20 minute mark of the last, when he was finally moved in there.
It would have been much better if it had happened a lot earlier, IMO.

I don't understand what you are trying to say, are you suggesting that Ross didn't want to put Kosi in the ruck any earlier because Grant suggested it was a good idea?

He started there in round one, long before GT suggested it.

If the game had opened up any earlier, the bulldogs would of been reactive and coped a lot better than they did.

I applaud our coach on this occasion, right move, at the right time, totally caught them off guard.

[markp]

No it's not, he has an ego, like everyone else. Unless you think he's some kind of super-human.
And if the Bulldogs had kicked any of the numerous chances they to put us away, the horse would have bolted by the 20 minute mark of the last, when he was finally moved in there.
It would have been much better if it had happened a lot earlier, IMO.

If not giving a flying F*** what GT has to say on any given matter qualifies you as super human, then I must be too.

GT's view/comment would not have altered the decision or the timing of that decision by a solitary nano-second.

Armchair coaches around here crack me up... they really do think they could coach better than RL.

[AnythingsPossibleSaints]

Do you think you could get your head any further up Ross's ass?
Speaking of "around here", many still seem to be of the opinion that Ross can "do no wrong", despite the Lovett debacle, the Ball trade debacle, the fact we blew the Grand Final, etc. He can and I'm sure Ross would happily admit it, yet some on here wouldn't, it seems.
Some mentioning how they believe he can do things better in certain ways doesn't mean they think they can do a better job than him overall, they just see things they believe can be improved upon and have the guts to say so. More power to them.
Out of the tens of thousands of supporters we have, are you seriously thinking none of them are experts on things like psychology, etc and can spot errors in Ross's thinking, or whatever? And if they did and said so on here, would you be expert enough to know when they're on the money or not? Or would you rather they don't say anything and just let him go on making a mistake, that costs our club? Some don't just bury their heads in the sand and think all's perfect, all the time.
This is a good and healthy thing, that helps us to keep evolving and moving forward and getting stronger, as a club.

[markp]

Ahhh... now you're 'argument' makes sense.

[SainterK]

Do you think you could get your head any further up Ross's ass?

Sorry Grant

[markp]

Nice post edit!

Show me one person who has said that 'Ross can do no wrong'.

We were/are talking about your imbecilic suggestion that RL held back on a tactical move during a match because of something GT said... which is one of the most ridiculous things I have ever read here.

[joffaboy]

Do you think you could get your head any further up Ross's ass?
Speaking of "around here", many still seem to be of the opinion that Ross can "do no wrong", despite the Lovett debacle, the Ball trade debacle, the fact we blew the Grand Final, etc. He can and I'm sure Ross would happily admit it, yet some on here wouldn't, it seems.
Some mentioning how they believe he can do things better in certain ways doesn't mean they think they can do a better job than him overall, they just see things they believe can be improved upon and have the guts to say so. More power to them.
Out of the tens of thousands of supporters we have, are you seriously thinking none of them are experts on things like psychology, etc and can spot errors in Ross's thinking, or whatever? And if they did and said so on here, would you be expert enough to know when they're on the money or not? Or would you rather they don't say anything and just let him go on making a mistake, that costs our club? Some don't just bury their heads in the sand and think all's perfect, all the time.
This is a good and healthy thing, that helps us to keep evolving and moving forward and getting stronger, as a club.

Wow - a bit of overkill, bring up spurious examples like psychologists would you think.

Dont know if Lyon is hero worshipped the way cult of personality Thomas was.
Still, four seasons after his sacking he is talked about as if everything that comes out of his mouth is gospel.

So what if he said Kosi's best position is rucking. He isn't the coach, he never even gave us a shot at a flag.

And all in hindsight and wrong to hold him up as the oracle when it is known that kosi has been in the ruck, most of the games he has played at one point our another.

And the hindsight, if the Bulldogs had have kicked this, or didn't miss that, is very nice days after the event, but hey guess what, they didn't happen.
just like the fact they we should have kicked six goal in the fourth qtr, three very gettable points before Kosi went anywhere the ruck.

Nobody said Ross is infallable, but he is a very good coach of an AFL football club, something that some less successful coaches seem to resent.

[SainterK]

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/b ... 5822734887

January 23, 2010 12:00AM

"We are really keen to become more flexible; Adam Schneider can go through midfield, Andrew McQualter can, Geelong has Joel Corey on a back flank and Dal Santo can do that and we can push Dal out of the goalsquare a bit more.

"Probably Kosi a little more (in the) ruck even though he likes playing forward.

[AnythingsPossibleSaints]

Nice post edit!

Show me one person who has said that 'Ross can do no wrong'.

We were/are talking about your imbecilic suggestion that RL held back on a tactical move during a match because of something GT said... which is one of the most ridiculous things I have ever read here.

Why, because you think that a current coach couldn't try to prove his predecessor wrong on something? As if that hasn't happened time and time again. Just like how Daniel Bradshaw probably wouldn't be playing so well if he wasn't trying to prove a point to Michael Voss.
And I'm well aware that Kosi has played in the ruck previously this year, but that was when Gardi was out and GT came out early last week and made the suggestion about Kosi, after he played forward the week before.
I'm just saying that I felt the move probably would have been made earlier (especially since Kosi was doing little up forward after the first 10-15 mins and King and Gardi were getting whacked in the ruck), had it not been GT who made the public suggestion earlier in the week.
Yet I expect many on here (like you have been) will be up in arms at the suggestion that Ross has a ego. Unless he's some freak of nature, then he does. If he didn't, all the monks of the world would be arriving at our doorstep to study him, as they apparently spend their whole lives trying to get rid of their ego. Is Ross really that special?
I mean I'm a fan of what he's done and he's doing a brilliant job, but come-on, it's not perfect yet.
So please excuse me if I and others keep on going until it is. It's not something you need to be afraid of.

[saintsRrising]

I wonder if Kosi'd have been sent in there earlier on Friday night if Grant Thomas hadn't been the one to suggest it earlier in the week? Better late than never, though.

Better late than never????

I am not actually sure which games you are referring to.

Lyon has used Kosi from time to time in the ruck including in the Swans game this year where he had 7HO's compared to 3 against the Dogs.

In 2007 and 2008 when the Saints ruck options were a bit thinner Kosi averaged 8 and 6 HO's per game.

He had 13 and 14 games in each year respectively where he had more HO's in 2007 and 2008 than this weeks Dogs Game.


Now if you mean earlier in the game when Hudson was not tired, who knows how effective Kosi may have been?

The ide that Lyon would deliberately not play players in certain positions just to spite GT is a pretty fanciful one IMO.


Also with GT's comments on Kosi in the ruck.....he also said this week that for Kosi to play full-time in the ruck that he would need to improve his fitness base. I would also nore that BS who watches a lot of St Kilda training has observed and commented on Kosi not being the most enthusiastic of trainers.

The game today

Is quite different to 2005 and IMO with all the zoning that the Saints play Kosi is probably more suited to the ruck for the Saints than he ever has been.

BUT: Is Kosi fit enough

BUT BUT : His ruckwork so far has not been good enough to bea No 1 ruck..so can he improve..

And the biggest BUT...we need a tall marking target up forward for large chunks of the game. With no Roo Kosi is presently the best option.


Horses for Courses

I think there are some rucks Kosi could go ok againts and others could be quite costly. I am not sure how Kosi would go against say Ottens or Sandliands.