Saintsational Fan Forum - A passionate community of St Kilda Football Club fans discussing news, history, players, trade rumours, results, AFL stats and more.
Pull your head in idiot. You might not like Rugby League but the Melbourne
And for a guy wanting to talk facts you are free with your making things up.
I am in no way "Anti-NRL"...so why make up such drivel.
Captain Impossible wrote:
I pity your insecurity, there is plenty of room for other sports in Melbourne.
More imaginations ....what insecurity?
I am not against any other football codes or sports (and indeed won a State Secondary School Championship playing one sport....and several State Titles (open to all ages)in another). I represented my school playing soccer and even played some Grid Iron.
Like many Aussies I will be watching the Soccer World Cup...just like I did as a teenager when we first made it to the elite level and when I was still actively playing the code.
Indeed I have a very strong interest in all football codes worldwide prospering.
I am guessing that you are Storm Fan rightly feeling angry and pissed off at present., and that I am just a casualty of your grief.
Flying the World in comfort thanks to FF Points....
Saintsfan wrote:
This is not King's Cross you know and these aren't policemen who likes strippers and what not
5 years worth of cheating would as a minimum mean that goodly number of players would have known, even if not all knew.
Why would they know. They just get a salary. I dont think the extra is paid in brown paper bags.
Don't know about the paper bags.
But the News Ltd head honcho stated today that the mechanism used was to make payments of upto $15,000 from a source that should not have gone to players.
Now you may be casual with your remuneration, but I like knowing exacting when and where my payments are made (and my remuneration varies widely).
Ignorance can be bliss.....and perhaps XYZ players just did not look into where the money was coming from. But if so you really need to consider why not.
But hey...I am the type of guy that thinks the Judd Ambassordorship is an AFL endorsed rort. "Claytons Cheating".
There were also 'dual' contracts........
Not saying they knew, but they must have had an inkling.
Sainter_4_life wrote:
The Storm were found to be 1.7 million over the cap over a 5 year period.
Just as a side note, noting it has no relevance to this issue, but your correct in saying the storm was 250k per year over the cap. When the Brisbane Lions won their 3 flags in a row they had an extra 700k per year in their cap (legally) then any other club. Seeing as 250k per year is deemed enough to strip flags, what does that say about the lions 3-peat
I also had this thought and what about Swans and Carltons last flags, were they not both due to extra cap money legally or not so legal.
All clubs do this IMO its just that some get caught out when others do not.
Do the storm get extra salary cap for being in Melbourne as we offered Brissy and the Swans?
Just hope the Saints do not end up with hidden books as a cheater may of been amongst us.
The whistleblower is known to be now an administator in the AFL.
Former chief financial officer Cameron Vale now at North Melbourne AFL club and with an axe to grind with Brian Waldron said with a big grin "who me".
The more you know, the more you know you don't know.
When I was a young child, I knew that I knew so much about so much.
Now that I am old and know so much more, I know that I know so much about so little, and so little about so much.
If you are not engaging AI actively and aggressively, you are doing it wrong.
You are not going to lose your job to AI.
You are going lose your job to somebody who uses AI.
Your company is not going to go out of business because of AI.
Your company is going to go out of business because another company used AI.
- Jensen Huang, CEO of NVIDIA
Sainter_4_life wrote:
The Storm were found to be 1.7 million over the cap over a 5 year period.
Just as a side note, noting it has no relevance to this issue, but your correct in saying the storm was 250k per year over the cap. When the Brisbane Lions won their 3 flags in a row they had an extra 700k per year in their cap (legally) then any other club. Seeing as 250k per year is deemed enough to strip flags, what does that say about the lions 3-peat
I also had this thought and what about Swans and Carltons last flags, were they not both due to extra cap money legally or not so legal.
All clubs do this IMO its just that some get caught out when others do not.
Do the storm get extra salary cap for being in Melbourne as we offered Brissy and the Swans?
Just hope the Saints do not end up with hidden books as a cheater may of been amongst us.
Was always amazed we could afford Hamill...
But seeing as no flags were involved and the next two drafts are compromised anyway, worst case scenario is we lose nothing but high ground over 95 Carlton.
That said we were already investigated, and nothing major was discovered.
"The inches we need are everywhere around us. They're in every break in the game. Every minute, every second. On this team we fight for that inch. On this team we tear ourselves and everyone around us to pieces for that inch. We claw with our fingernails for that inch. Because we know when we add up all those inches that's gonna make the f***in' difference between winning and losing! Between living and dying!'
Sainter_4_life wrote:Just as a side note, noting it has no relevance to this issue, but your correct in saying the storm was 250k per year over the cap. When the Brisbane Lions won their 3 flags in a row they had an extra 700k per year in their cap (legally) then any other club. Seeing as 250k per year is deemed enough to strip flags, what does that say about the lions 3-peat
I also had this thought and what about Swans and Carltons last flags, were they not both due to extra cap money legally or not so legal.
the sydney and brisbane flags were pretty important for getting the game up and running. extra salary cap is a small price to pay for making afl the dominant code in australia.
Putting aside the semantics of NRL player payments andtheir mechanisms, which I'm not convinced that anyone here can really speak to with expertise, I think that for the next fortnight I'm now more interested in the Storm than I've ever been before.
We live in the era of professional athletes. Highly paid entertainers, we pay for their skills and get attached to the ones with heart - the ones who'll bleed to win for the jumper.
With these sanctions, the NRL has basically said that one of the greatest teams ever to participate in it's code now has nothing to play for. If they win, they don't get the points (does it follow that the opposition does?), no finals, no flag.
Just how proud are the players?
If these guys put their heads down, turn up and lose each week and just cash out until 2011, NRL in Melbourne may be dead.
On the other hand, if they step up and decide to make the NRL put a * beside whoever this years winner is (metaphorically if not literally), they may well be able to actually increase the passion of Melbourne for this team in a way that their dynasty couldn't.
I couldn't give a fig for rugby, I've just never gotten into it. However, I do love sports in general, I do love a battler, and a great team playing only to stick it up the rest of the league...
I'll pay to see that.
"Everything comes to he who hustles while he waits"
- Henry Ford
I would think the NRL has done the over the top penalty to appease a grumpy NSW market and in the process shot themselves in the foot.
Playing out 2010 with nothing to gain will kill off plenty of supporters in Melbourne. NRL is still a novelty in vic not a mainstay they are treading dangerous territory if they think that it will hold fans for a wasted season just begun.
The Storm will loose players due to the salary cap being adjusted down and will find it particularly difficult to regain market when a lot of vic teams are going well in the AFL.
st.byron wrote:Couldn't care less about the Melbourne Storm and rugby league. Boring as hell to watch and even more bogan than Formula 1. And if Murdoch's empire takes a hit so much the better.
Fair enough you don't care, but why bother reading the thread to start with. Some of us happen to barrack for the Melbourne Storm as well as the mighty saints.
I for one am a storm follower, the big premiership (weg) posters that I purchased now mean nothing. The joy I got from watching them two premierships now mean nothing.
I would be a more of a wreck if it happened at St Kilda but I can tell you what has happened today has shattered the storms supporters. Forget about the club and the NRL for two seconds and think how it would feel to be a supporter or a hard die supporter that goes every week and pays the club good money for a membership.
To have the glory of two premierships taken away and being told that season 2010 means nothing, you couldn't even begin to imagine.
It sure has hell wrecked my evening, no I am not a member, but I watch and follow them every week on telly. My Saints will always be my heart, but I can say I do barrack for the storm and I am shattered.
Good post DSG. I'd be mightily pissed if the same thing happened to the Saints, so I can understand where you're coming from.
Sainter_4_life wrote:
The Storm were found to be 1.7 million over the cap over a 5 year period.
Just as a side note, noting it has no relevance to this issue, but your correct in saying the storm was 250k per year over the cap. When the Brisbane Lions won their 3 flags in a row they had an extra 700k per year in their cap (legally) then any other club. Seeing as 250k per year is deemed enough to strip flags, what does that say about the lions 3-peat
I also had this thought and what about Swans and Carltons last flags, were they not both due to extra cap money legally or not so legal.
All clubs do this IMO its just that some get caught out when others do not.
Do the storm get extra salary cap for being in Melbourne as we offered Brissy and the Swans?
Just hope the Saints do not end up with hidden books as a cheater may of been amongst us.
Was always amazed we could afford Hamill...
But seeing as no flags were involved and the next two drafts are compromised anyway, worst case scenario is we lose nothing but high ground over 95 Carlton.
That said we were already investigated, and nothing major was discovered.
Good planning involves getting caught when you are about to cycle to the bottom.
That ensures like Carlton you go down hard and stay down.
The myriad of low and priority draft picks gained over a few years builds the team that will win a raft of premierships.
Let's not get caught until the present premiership window closes, then cheat like hell and confess.
The more you know, the more you know you don't know.
When I was a young child, I knew that I knew so much about so much.
Now that I am old and know so much more, I know that I know so much about so little, and so little about so much.
If you are not engaging AI actively and aggressively, you are doing it wrong.
You are not going to lose your job to AI.
You are going lose your job to somebody who uses AI.
Your company is not going to go out of business because of AI.
Your company is going to go out of business because another company used AI.
- Jensen Huang, CEO of NVIDIA
It's interesting that the NRL have possibly killed rugby league in this city (in the short term at least) just at the moment when the AFL is about to introduce a second team into Sydney.
Storm deserves what it gets, but NRL has killed the game down here if Strom folds.
Interesting parallels between old VFL clubs and new interstate clubs, in the way the clubs are run.
Storm set new standards of professionalism (albeit dishonestly) and traditional clubs hated it. In much the same way that Vic clubs got their knickers in a twist when Sydney, Brissy WCE et al were winning flags.
If all NRL clubs adopt the same pro standards, then NRL would thrive and attendances grow.
NRL admin should use this as a catalyst to overhaul the game and salary cap... or Rugby will always be a 2nd class sport.
I find it odd that the NRL would put the Storm to sword as it has done without thinking of the ramifications long term for it's market expansion.
Their reaction smacks of traditional club mentality.
Say what you will about the AFL, but it has done everything possible to make us the premier code in Australia.
Hotel De Los Muertos: Your room is ready... Care to step inside?
From a personal point of view, I hope people are around Brian Waldron at the moment.
This is beyond humiliation. I'm not saying he's not getting his right whack, but professionally this is ruination. He won't recover from this and perhaps nor should he, professionally.
I worry for his personal 'safety' though.
Poster formerly known as SENsaintsational. More wisdom. More knowledge. Less name.
SENsaintsational wrote:From a personal point of view, I hope people are around Brian Waldron at the moment.
This is beyond humiliation. I'm not saying he's not getting his right whack, but professionally this is ruination. He won't recover from this and perhaps nor should he, professionally.
I worry for his personal 'safety' though.
He's the tip of the iceberg. He won't be out on his own in a few days. As if anything like this would be a unilateral operation. There'll be several club administrators, executives, sponsors, board members and (despite Hartigan's ugly bellowing) I would bet plenty people at News Ltd knew what was going on too.
"The inches we need are everywhere around us. They're in every break in the game. Every minute, every second. On this team we fight for that inch. On this team we tear ourselves and everyone around us to pieces for that inch. We claw with our fingernails for that inch. Because we know when we add up all those inches that's gonna make the f***in' difference between winning and losing! Between living and dying!'
SENsaintsational wrote:From a personal point of view, I hope people are around Brian Waldron at the moment.
This is beyond humiliation. I'm not saying he's not getting his right whack, but professionally this is ruination. He won't recover from this and perhaps nor should he, professionally.
I worry for his personal 'safety' though.
He's the tip of the iceberg. He won't be out on his own in a few days. As if anything like this would be a unilateral operation. There'll be several club administrators, executives, sponsors, board members and (despite Hartigan's ugly bellowing) I would bet plenty people at News Ltd knew what was going on too.
I agree. There is WAY more to this than what we are being told and I feel that Waldron is being made the scapegoat. Just a gut feeling, but at the moment, this whole thing does not add up.
In regards to Cameron Vale, if he knew about this, regardless of his role, he has a lot to answer for and if we are being audited, so should North Melbourne and Richmond for the period that Waldron was there as an administrator.
Milan Faletic wrote:Who is going to sponsor this club now?
New Ltd own it and pick up the tab.
Reputedly they have been pumping in vasts sums over the years.....t
Members Equity Bank, Skins and Host Plus have all withdrawn their sponsorships.
Yep...flooding out.
So News Ltd will have to pump in extra $millions now plus the fines..
Just been thinking about this. Imagine if this happened to say, Geelong or Brisbane, during their premiership eras? Imagine if you were a supporter of those clubs? It must be absolute agony for the Storm supporters.
The country hasn't stopped talking about it today. Imagine if it was the AFL and not the NRL? What would the city of Melbourne be like today? Brian Waldron may well be more hated than Carl Williams, and that is wrong IMHO (only by a whisker) but possibly true.
Let's hope that his misconduct hasn't involved the AFL.
St Fidelius wrote:I am pi$$ed off only for my son....
He is in his bedroom crying and the framed signed jumper I purchased for him as a Christmas present is now worthless...
I would like to demand my money back, it cost me over $600 for the item and it was sitting proudly along last years St Kilda framed jumper and Melbourne Victory's Premiership jumper of 2009/2010.
I have zero chance of getting my money back on the Storm Jumper and it is worthless and it ends up being a worthless Christmas and a disgrace to be up on his bedroom wall.
Yep, I am pi$$ed off, not really the fact that's it is now worthless, but the shear disappointment and grief (to put it mildly) it has caused my son.
St Fid
I'll buy it off you for the price you paid on the condition that you buy your son some more Saints stuff from their shop.
If you are interested, PM me.
philip
Hold on to it St Fid, in years to come it will be an extremely valuable piece of memorabilia. Imagine today if you had something signed by Shoeless Joe Jackson and his team mates. Your son will be fine, he's a good lad and this is something that in the future he'll be able to treasure the memories of his Storm days.
Milton66 wrote:Apparently there was money being siphoned off to pay players... BUT apparently not all of it went to players.
So some administrators of some description were pocketing the money made by the club or money intended for player payments?
I guess it is feasible as if you have set aside x amount extra coming from sales of products etc you could 'state' on say another record you have 'payed' players and just pocketed the cash.
So essentially inflating players illegal salaries without them knowing. Or screwing over the person/people that is attempting to screw over the NRL
