Should we risk a fine for Milney and Schneider?

[Milan Faletic]

I've been thinking about this and yes, it could be said that Milney and Schneider have a reputation for "staging" at times.

However, Schneider in particular has deserved free kicks at times, and I feel that the umpires would have paid the free kicks if the player infringed wasn't Schneider.

Yesterday, I reckon we would have won by 5-6 goals if Schneider and Milney were paid obvious free kicks. There were clear jumper pulls and arms over the shoulder in our forward 50.

The bottom line is that - If there is a free kick, the umpires have to pay it.....regardless of the player's name.

That should be non judgemental and regardless of reputation.

So my question is, should we risk a fine in order to publicise this issue because then the magnifying glass will be on the umpires.

Could be $5,000 or even $25,000 well spent.

Or should we seek clarification from Gieschen?

We know that there was at least on clear free kick to Schneider in last year's GF at a very important time of the game that would have been paid 100 out of 100 times. Jumper pull- free kick. By the way, this is not a whinge about the GF, more about paying free kicks if they are there so please don't hammer me about the GF.

If that was Dal, or Lenny, or Joey, I reckon the kick would have been paid. My point is that a player is a player, and if infringed, they deserve a free kick.

[Milton66]

Exactly what positive purpose wil lthat serve? Aprt from p1ssing umps of moreso.

[gringo]

Why not do an Eddy and have Gieshen sit and justify themselves in a private forum then you dont have the fine and you don't get a bunch of bitter embarassed umpires playing paybacks later.

It took a few years but Baker seems to have been finally forgiven by the umpiring fraternity, he was hung out to dry for years.

[Milan Faletic]

Exactly what positive purpose wil lthat serve? Aprt from p1ssing umps of moreso.

Well that's my question. Hence the question mark. So I gather your opinion is that we shouldn't do it. Fair enough.

[Life Long Saint]

I have been convinced for some time now that the umpires "play the man" when it comes to Milney.

There is no doubt that he has brought this on himself by being a noted stager.

This was no more evident than last week v Collingwood when he nailed Harry O'Brien cold in a tackle. The umpire called play on and Harry let the ball fall from his hands over the boundary after being spun 360 degrees. This definition of "prior opportunity" is usually only afforded to Judd and Ablett. Harry has moved up in the world.

The very next quarter, Milne gets caught with the ball almost immediately after picking it up and actually gets a handball away but is called for holding the ball.

Our backline and ruckmen seem to giving away a lot of free kicks. If I were Ross Lyon, I would be meeting with Jeff Geischen to determine what we our players are doing wrong in contests. No media required.

[fingers]

We were talking about that at the game yesterday - I think there should be a question raised, in private. Schneider does stage but there have been a number of free kicks that have not been paid.

[ace]

Just accept it.
The AFL is corrupt.

But the saints can beat the opposition and the umpires as demonstrated at the weekend.

[plugger66]

Just accept it.
The AFL is corrupt.

But the saints can be the opposition and the umpires as demonstrated at the weekend.

At least you always bring it down a level.

[SainterK]

No, I don't think so.

The best way to rectify it would be for the players concerned to work really hard on getting the staging out of their game.

The unfairness of it all, could be something that sparks them into being better footballers.

[saintsRrising]

I've been thinking about this and yes, it could be said that Milney and Schneider have a reputation for "staging" at times.

.

Yes they have..and yes they did.
That sows doubt in an umpires mind..

On the other side of the rub until a couple of recent instances Roo has not played/eaxgerated for free kicks and as a consequence when he goes the ball and gets infringed he has had a pretty fair run with umpires.

Now have said that some of the jumper pulls and other infringements against Milne I would have thought should have been in the beyond doubt stage.

[Milan Faletic]

No, I don't think so.

The best way to rectify it would be for the players concerned to work really hard on getting the staging out of their game.

The unfairness of it all, could be something that sparks them into being better footballers.

Agree with that too. Think we chatted on another thread. They need to work hard to re-earn the umpires' respect.

But also it is the umpires' job to pay the obvious free kick regardless of the player.

So maybe an informal meeting with Gieschen might clarify both sides. Then RL can brief the players, and JG can brief the umpires.

[Milan Faletic]

Well, I have emailed On The Couch and Footy Classified to see if they will bring up the issue on their shows.

I thought maybe if the media bring it up rather than the club, we can shine a light on it without getting the club in hot water.

[TazzieSaintGirl83]

I know players do themselves no favours with umpires if they are known to play for a free kick and I would be happy to see that aspect of the game gone.

There was one incident though in the last quarter I believe when Milne was leading out to take the mark and there was a fairly clumsy challenge high over his shoulder and no free was paid. I know its hard to expect people to be completely impartial but I think it was quite poor that wasnt paid.
I apologise if I have the details wrong there but I think thats right, cant remember who the Freemantle player was who challenged

[Milan Faletic]

I know players do themselves no favours with umpires if they are known to play for a free kick and I would be happy to see that aspect of the game gone.

There was one incident though in the last quarter I believe when Milne was leading out to take the mark and there was a fairly clumsy challenge high over his shoulder and no free was paid. I know its hard to expect people to be completely impartial but I think it was quite poor that wasnt paid.
Apologises if I have the details wrong there but I think thats right, cant remember who the Freemantle player was who challenged

It was Tarrant, and he injured his shoulder on Milne's collarbone!

[Sainterman]

I fail to see what the "staging" actually has to do with any of this. If there is a free kick there then it should be paid, and for these guys, it just isn't being awarded to them. It is as simple as that, no prior history should be taken into account and the frees should be paid contest by contest...not on reputation or whether someone has a history of clapping an umpire, or staging for free kicks. I would like to think the umpires could be a little more professional about things.

If the umpire thinks the player has staged for the free then ok, don't pay it...but to penalise players over and over, whether they have staged or not is quite ridiculous.

Some of these umpires have egos that are just too big for what they need to be.

I am sick of these guys missing out, and not only that but I am also sick of how quickly Milne is called for holding the ball every time there is a 50-50 decision to be made.

[Saint Bev]

The umpires are to "precious", they can't handle crisicism, hence "whispers in the sky". There was quite a few frees that should have been paid to us yesterday that was highlighted on the TV coverage, so its not just us that thinks we were a bit stiff. As much as I would like to complain, I think it would hinder more than help.

[SainterK]

I fail to see what the "staging" actually has to do with any of this. If there is a free kick there then it should be paid, and for these guys, it just isn't being awarded to them. It is as simple as that, no prior history should be taken into account and the frees should be paid contest by contest...not on reputation or whether someone has a history of clapping an umpire, or staging for free kicks. I would like to think the umpires could be a little more professional about things.

If the umpire thinks the player has staged for the free then ok, don't pay it...but to penalise players over and over, whether they have staged or not is quite ridiculous.

Some of these umpires have egos that are just too big for what they need to be.

I am sick of these guys missing out, and not only that but I am also sick of how quickly Milne is called for holding the ball every time there is a 50-50 decision to be made.

Milne at least get's on with it, Schneider game seems to rely on it...

[saintspremiers]

Just accept it.
The AFL is corrupt.

But the saints can be the opposition and the umpires as demonstrated at the weekend.

At least you always bring it down a level.

Typical response from you Andy, or is it Monkey Boy today?

[TazzieSaintGirl83]

Thats the word I was looking for Saint Bev, precious! I know we arent supposed to be critics of the umpires and anyone speaking ill of them seems to get pulled into line pretty quick, its just a shame when the same scrutiny placed on other areas of game doesnt seem to swing the umpires way.

Im trying not to be bias saints supporter either I watched a few games on the weekend and saw some other umpiring I thought was borderline

[Sainterman]

I fail to see what the "staging" actually has to do with any of this. If there is a free kick there then it should be paid, and for these guys, it just isn't being awarded to them. It is as simple as that, no prior history should be taken into account and the frees should be paid contest by contest...not on reputation or whether someone has a history of clapping an umpire, or staging for free kicks. I would like to think the umpires could be a little more professional about things.

If the umpire thinks the player has staged for the free then ok, don't pay it...but to penalise players over and over, whether they have staged or not is quite ridiculous.

Some of these umpires have egos that are just too big for what they need to be.

I am sick of these guys missing out, and not only that but I am also sick of how quickly Milne is called for holding the ball every time there is a 50-50 decision to be made.

Milne at least get's on with it, Schneider game seems to rely on it...

Agree, both should just get on with it, but do you think it might be a little frustrating for them?

I think it is a little harsh to say Schneiders game relies on it though...i think he has more strings to his bow than that...

[SainterK]

Absolutely Schneiders game has more strings in his bow, that's why it's so frustrating...

I don't think it's too harsh, I am a very optimistic person, but I watched the replay and call it how I see it.

[Sainterman]

Thats the word I was looking for Saint Bev, precious! I know we arent supposed to be critics of the umpires and anyone speaking ill of them seems to get pulled into line pretty quick, its just a shame when the same scrutiny placed on other areas of game doesnt seem to swing the umpires way.

Im trying not to be bias saints supporter either I watched a few games on the weekend and saw some other umpiring I thought was borderline

I don't for a second think it is anti St Kilda umpiring (I certainly did think that in the GT days), I think the quality is generally pretty poor across the board. When watching the other games I often find myself laughing at how poor some of the decisions made are.

Something needs to be done to improve things...the AFL certainly have an issue with this that they should attend to! But will they? They really are big on protecting these guys. I'd say the rationale is around not letting things get out of hand though the lower ranks. But, at AFL level, the umpires should be the best around....and some of them a laughably hopeless!

[TazzieSaintGirl83]

Sorry Sainterman didnt mean for it to sound like I was saying you were bias. I dont think you are at all
I just know how hopeless I am and often have my saints tinted glasses on, I was only meaning myself

I agree with you, I think it needs to be looked at across the board. I know they need to protect the umpires from unwarrented criticism but its gone a bit beyond that now.

[Eastern]

I think the AFL Umpires Dept supply ALL clubs with data from each game in which they compete. I think it's called "Missed & Unwarranted Free Kicks". I would hope that our club is professional enough to approach the umpires Dept in a professional manner if there are any percieved problems in this area.

Not being an AFL apogogist. Just saying that there are avenues available for the club to persue these issues !!