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History consistently proves that things may work during the H&A season yet fail in the finals.
Your example is not logical as the gaemeplan was fine in the GF. It worked. It worked very well.
For three quarters the Cats were largely powerless against it and the ONLY thing stopping the game being over was poor kicking at goal. And that poor kicking has absolutely NOTHING to do with the gameplan.
Sure we know that the Cats triumphed in the last quarter, but the St Kilda Gameplan used in the H&A and in the GF was not at fault.
The St Kilda players who missed the easy shots on goal were at fault.
Now yes the gameplan can be improved, as nothing is every perfect. In addition a club does not exist ina vaccuum and the opposition are all constantly changing. So the gameplan will be teaked and changed.
But in 2009 the then St Kilda Gameplan was good enough to win a GF.
Flying the World in comfort thanks to FF Points....
History consistently proves that things may work during the H&A season yet fail in the finals.
Your example is not logical as the gaemeplan was fine in the GF. It worked. It worked very well.
For three quarters the Cats were largely powerless against it and the ONLY thing stopping the game being over was poor kicking at goal. And that poor kicking has absolutely NOTHING to do with the gameplan.
Sure we know that the Cats triumphed in the last quarter, but the St Kilda Gameplan used in the H&A and in the GF was not at fault.
The St Kilda players who missed the easy shots on goal were at fault.
Now yes the gameplan can be improved, as nothing is every perfect. In addition a club does not exist ina vaccuum and the opposition are all constantly changing. So the gameplan will be teaked and changed.
But in 2009 the then St Kilda Gameplan was good enough to win a GF.
??
I'm not sure where what you posted above fits in with anything that I've written in this thread.
degruch wrote:FFS Rodge, you've been on about the gameplan the entire thread...stop playing silly buggers with SaintsRising and get on with it.
Get on with what?
SrR has chimed in with a response/smart arrse question that I'm not sure has anything to do with anything I've said.
All I've said about the game plan, is that Lyon seems to deviate from it when we're under the pump.
And sRr has replied that, whether you like the perceived gameplan or not, it would have worked very nicely during the GF, had we not missed 8 shots at goal.
Personally, as you know, I have seen no evidence that there has ever been a coaching directive to kick it long into our forwardline, singling out Roo only, ignoring the teams usually well drilled attack. I've been sitting just as close to the coaches box as you on most occasions, it would be very odd of RL to throw everything out the window.
degruch wrote:FFS Rodge, you've been on about the gameplan the entire thread...stop playing silly buggers with SaintsRising and get on with it.
Get on with what?
SrR has chimed in with a response/smart arrse question that I'm not sure has anything to do with anything I've said.
All I've said about the game plan, is that Lyon seems to deviate from it when we're under the pump.
And sRr has replied that, whether you like the perceived gameplan or not, it would have worked very nicely during the GF, had we not missed 8 shots at goal.
And what has that reply got to do with anything that I've written? That's why I'm confused. It doesn't make sense in context with what I've been talking about.
If anything, it supports my concerns that the game plan was foolishly thrown out the window unnecessarily on GF day. I've been saying that for months. Why did Lyon change tact halfway through the last quarter when what we'd been doing was working?
rodgerfox wrote:
However when the pressure is on, Lyon panics and deviates from the game plan to a tactic that isbased solely around Roo.
And that is the problem. It was proven last year.
.
So how does our application of "forward pressure" deviate for it to be foccused solely around Roo?
Please explain...
How do you think our forward pressure worked in the last 15 mins of the GF?
Bombing it long effectively means you don't have time to get your own numbers forwards to setup a 'forward defence'.
So when we bomb it to Roo, and he doesn't get it - we're vulnerable. See GF day.
I also believe that 'forward pressure' used by all sides (not just us believe it or not) is more of a defensive mechanism to prevent the opposition setting up their attack using their running defenders, than an attacking plan to score yourself.
degruch wrote:FFS Rodge, you've been on about the gameplan the entire thread...stop playing silly buggers with SaintsRising and get on with it.
Get on with what?
SrR has chimed in with a response/smart arrse question that I'm not sure has anything to do with anything I've said.
All I've said about the game plan, is that Lyon seems to deviate from it when we're under the pump.
And sRr has replied that, whether you like the perceived gameplan or not, it would have worked very nicely during the GF, had we not missed 8 shots at goal.
And what has that reply got to do with anything that I've written? That's why I'm confused. It doesn't make sense in context with what I've been talking about.
If anything, it supports my concerns that the game plan was foolishly thrown out the window unnecessarily on GF day. I've been saying that for months. Why did Lyon change tact halfway through the last quarter when what we'd been doing was working?
More silly buggers...when the heat's on, just deny you ever broached the subject. Are you in politics?
You imagined this slip in gameplan...never happened.
degruch wrote:FFS Rodge, you've been on about the gameplan the entire thread...stop playing silly buggers with SaintsRising and get on with it.
Get on with what?
SrR has chimed in with a response/smart arrse question that I'm not sure has anything to do with anything I've said.
All I've said about the game plan, is that Lyon seems to deviate from it when we're under the pump.
And sRr has replied that, whether you like the perceived gameplan or not, it would have worked very nicely during the GF, had we not missed 8 shots at goal.
And what has that reply got to do with anything that I've written? That's why I'm confused. It doesn't make sense in context with what I've been talking about.
Yes we can all agree that you are confused.
We have also established in this thread that you suffer from memory loss.
rodgerfox wrote:
And what has that reply got to do with anything that I've written?
Well rodge you have stated that Lyon changed the gameplan to focus soley on Roo.
Now some gameplan 101 for you. There are 3 phases of the game plam:
When we have the ball,
When the ball is in dispute,
and when they have the ball.
You are contending that Lyon changed the gameplan to focus solely on Roo.
So please explain the exact nature of this when the ball was in dispute and also when Geelong had the ball ?
I am interested in how our sole focus of these two key parts of our gameplan were focussed solely on Roo.
Please explain....
Flying the World in comfort thanks to FF Points....
degruch wrote:FFS Rodge, you've been on about the gameplan the entire thread...stop playing silly buggers with SaintsRising and get on with it.
Get on with what?
SrR has chimed in with a response/smart arrse question that I'm not sure has anything to do with anything I've said.
All I've said about the game plan, is that Lyon seems to deviate from it when we're under the pump.
And sRr has replied that, whether you like the perceived gameplan or not, it would have worked very nicely during the GF, had we not missed 8 shots at goal.
And what has that reply got to do with anything that I've written? That's why I'm confused. It doesn't make sense in context with what I've been talking about.
Yes we can all agree that you are confused.
We have also established in this thread that you suffer from memory loss.
rodgerfox wrote:
And what has that reply got to do with anything that I've written?
Well rodge you have stated that Lyon changed the gameplan to focus soley on Roo.
Now some gameplan 101 for you. There are 3 phases of the game plam:
When we have the ball,
When the ball is in dispute,
and when they have the ball.
You are contending that Lyon changed the gameplan to focus solely on Roo.
So please explain the exact nature of this when the ball was in dispute and also when Geelong had the ball ?
I am interested in how our sole focus of these two key parts of our gameplan were focussed solely on Roo.
Please explain....
A couple of things....
Unless you cease with the condescending tones of your posts directed at myself, I'm not interested in discussing football with you.
Secondly, you should go back and read what I've written. You're barking up the wrong tree.
I think Kosi will be better for us if he gets his mojo back...
I think that to some extent he is being limited because he is most likely instructed to not fly with Roo.
Now while in some ways this is good...ie when the two lead in different directions to provide two different tactics there will always be times when
time and space coincide.
I believe that Kosi is very much an instinctive player and that he is at his best with his pack marking and bash and crash. Therefore in my mid Kosi needs to be given greater licence to just go for the ball whenever he believes that he can.
This laso makes sense to me as Kosi is poor on the ground, and so maximise his impact in the air.
With more teams to most likely be rolling out forward pressure in 2009 the value of two big contested marking forwards could bea crucial avantage in 2010.
Long kicking is liely to be part of this and we have seen this in various ways in Lyons era. Gram unfortunately became morea rooster than a deliverer. however in recent games Gram's kicking has seemed to have improved.
BJ is the reall lynchpin though due to his sperb kicking.
Gwilt has recently put his hand up for HBF and if he can hold this down then his long kicking could assist in breaking through an opponents forward press.
Flying the World in comfort thanks to FF Points....
If you read what Rodger said, he never said the gameplan we implemented during the year failed. He has more criticised it's lack of application during more desperate moments in big games, particularly the last minutes of the grand final.
(Which by the way, he did promise he would stop bringing up in every conversation, because it's been done to death)
It's something that Ross has taken ownership of, and I am sure he will be looking to learn from.
This thread highlights just how strong and unique our forward line is, when the load is shared and less predictable.
If the game plan was fine, why change it in the last quarter?
I can't recall any press from Ross that stated "I changed the gameplan".
So unless you were either in the box and you heard this from Ross or another coach or you are one of the players and you were aware of a player motivated "kick it to Roo" game adjustment then it's all hot air really.
Speculate away all you like but in the end you know your argument only exists in your mind and all that is going on in this forum is to do with ego.
I've never seen a bad St.Kilda player - that's just how they are.
It did happen PJ, not quite a 'kick it to Roo' but more of a 'bomb it long' in the last moments of the match.
Where I don't think Rodger is fair, is his failure to acknowledge that had our forwards made the most of the opportunities earlier, it's not likely Geelong would have still been in it for this to have been an issue.
I think the lines have been blurred a little in this thread, it's not about Ross's gameplan, it's about just how strong our forward line is when we have effective inside 50 targets.
I can appreciate what you are saying about lines being blurred SK. For me the call to get it in quick and long is not an abondonment of the gameplan so much as a specific intstruction resulting from a specific situation - last 5 minutes urgency!! Should a team that has a gameplan be so inflexible as to not be able to adjust to any circumstance. If we were ahead and the call was to go backwards and hold the play up - is that not a deviation from the gameplan?
Suggesting that Lyon went into panic rather than responded to the immediate situation is as I have stated a response that comes from the realm of the ego.
Cheers
I've never seen a bad St.Kilda player - that's just how they are.
