Ross cant do much more than this???

[bigred]

Guilty or innocent.

G O R N.

And some of the crap on this thread is fkn terrible.

[borderbarry]

Early in the piece I read where Lovett was out drinking with Indigenous Essendon players. Yet he ended up at the home of one of his current St.Kilda team-mates. which to me suggests that the reference to Essendon players was incorrect, or that he ended up with St.Kilda players. If he was drinking with St.Kilda player/s, I suggest that they would also not be popular with Ross and Co.

[SainterK]

However, I believe if we were to look at the fact Lovett was out drinking again in isolation, he may have already done enough to justify the clubs letting him go?

I would have thought guilty of being a drunken idiot and trying it on with the coach, say hello to the magoos. Guilty of rape, say goodbye to your career.

I'll sit back and wait, I'm not gonna hang anyone just yet, there's a few people on here willing to go out on a limb already, which I think is pretty dangerous (not the least legally, as point out by dals_da_bomb).

Really?

You think that after the first incident, he would not have been told keep away from the grog?

I do not see the leadership group being put in the position of having to compromise their stance. You cannot warn someone that their behaviour is not acceptable and will not be tolerated, to then gloss over repeat behaviour.

Can you?

[degruch]

However, I believe if we were to look at the fact Lovett was out drinking again in isolation, he may have already done enough to justify the clubs letting him go?

I would have thought guilty of being a drunken idiot and trying it on with the coach, say hello to the magoos. Guilty of rape, say goodbye to your career.

I'll sit back and wait, I'm not gonna hang anyone just yet, there's a few people on here willing to go out on a limb already, which I think is pretty dangerous (not the least legally, as point out by dals_da_bomb).

Really?

You think that after the first incident, he would not have been told keep away from the grog?

I do not see the leadership group being put in the position of having to compromise their stance. You cannot warn someone that their behaviour is not acceptable and will not be tolerated, to then gloss over repeat behaviour.

Can you?

He wasn't the only one on the grog by the sounds of it, so how many people is Ross suspending/sacking?

[SainterK]

However, I believe if we were to look at the fact Lovett was out drinking again in isolation, he may have already done enough to justify the clubs letting him go?

I would have thought guilty of being a drunken idiot and trying it on with the coach, say hello to the magoos. Guilty of rape, say goodbye to your career.

I'll sit back and wait, I'm not gonna hang anyone just yet, there's a few people on here willing to go out on a limb already, which I think is pretty dangerous (not the least legally, as point out by dals_da_bomb).

Really?

You think that after the first incident, he would not have been told keep away from the grog?

I do not see the leadership group being put in the position of having to compromise their stance. You cannot warn someone that their behaviour is not acceptable and will not be tolerated, to then gloss over repeat behaviour.

Can you?

He wasn't the only one on the grog by the sounds of it, so how many people is Ross suspending/sacking?

It is yet to be determined if any other players were involved, and yes, I would expect some form of punishment to apply to anyone who disregarded the coaches warning and found themselves embroiled in this situation.

As far as sacking, it's more the position that the leadership group has found itself in. If he was warned that this kind of behaviour will not be tolerated, you expect them to soften their approach?

Andrew has found himself in the hands of the law on two seperate occasions within a month, both incidents involve alcohol and should be classed as repeat behaviour.

Just one more chance, just one more chance....how many to you suggest?

[SainterK]

Oh, and I will clarify, I feel no qualms that Lovett will distract or deter the boys from the ultimate goal.

I do however feel unease if our leadership group begins to soften their approach to accomodate misbehaviour, this is far more damaging to the club than Andrew Lovett.

[Moods]

SainterK - not sure that RL would mind the boys having a drink during the xmas break - as long as it wasn't to excess. Not as if they had a game coming up, or even further training sessions to be completed. I interpreted the article to mean, don't go getting yourselves into trouble, look at how easily the publicity from it can blow up in your faces. in reference to the Carlton booze cruise.

I'm pretty sure alcohol is allowed, as would going out at night. Just nothing to excess and make sure you present after xmas in a professional condition.

[stinger]

Sounds like his days are numbered. Will go down as one of the worst trades in AFL history. We should have just traded 16 for Everitt from the Dogs.

yes........but hindsight always castes a different picture,.....bet that's what ross wishes he had done too....

[stinger]

PS I was not trying to trivialise the charge, just pointing out something none of you have thought of. That's killing two birds with one stone: getting one back at someone you hate and removing an obstacle to your team (C&ll*ngwo&d) winning a flag.

welll....i'm glad we have at least one thinking genius around here


,,,ffs......have a think before you post crap like that....

[degruch]

Just one more chance, just one more chance....how many to you suggest?

Personally, if it was me, I would have cut him some slack and fined him for his birthday hijinx, so we're really only dealing with the outcome of the latest 'event'. Given that, it's pretty clearcut IMO, as I mentioned before.

[barks4eva]

She went out with John Anthony, me thinks she can't be right in the head for starters!

I'm not attempting to trivialize this, perhaps Lovett is in deed guilty of a serious crime,

or perhaps he's just guilty of being a d**khead!

Fact is she went out with John Anthony so I'd already have her pegged as a .........


oops better stop now

[SainterK]

SainterK - not sure that RL would mind the boys having a drink during the xmas break - as long as it wasn't to excess. Not as if they had a game coming up, or even further training sessions to be completed. I interpreted the article to mean, don't go getting yourselves into trouble, look at how easily the publicity from it can blow up in your faces. in reference to the Carlton booze cruise.

I'm pretty sure alcohol is allowed, as would going out at night. Just nothing to excess and make sure you present after xmas in a professional condition.

Sure, of course they can, I didn't say that they couldn't.

However, excess drinking is exactly what got him into trouble last time.

[stinger]

"allegedly raped a woman as she slept".

The dictionary describes rape as the act forcing a woman to have sexual intercourse against her will.

Call me sexist or whatever (which I am not) but I am one of those in our community who has trouble with what is being described here.

As a more mature male (in age anyway), and with 3 sons (and 2 daughters), I have counselled my sons that "No is no - no matter when no is said because if you do not respect the word no whenever it is said and immediately it is said you will find yourself in the deepest of trouble - trouble which will haunt you for the rest of your life. So be warned".

For my daughters the message has always been more simple. "Do not put yourself in a compromised position because your reputation is everything. If you get the wrong reputation that reputation will precede you to your continuing detriment because people being people, they talk".

I would not think that the education I have given my children in these matters differs from what is given in most homes in our Country.

My daughters and my wife have commented on what is being reported.

And their comments go straight to "a woman was allegedly raped as she slept".

They want to know how a woman can be awoken by a single man in the act of having sexual intercourse with her.

And they have aroused my curosity.

To my sons I have just repeated the lesson.

"No" is "no" the instant it is said - no matter anything else.

Maybe the story isnt quite right or just maybe it is true. Maybe she was very pissed or had some drugs or maybe her drink was spiked and just maybe it is completely true. Unless you were there and involved you wouldnt know but my guess is the reporter has an in with either the club or the cops so i will go with their story rather than you who know no facts what so ever. And yes it was a sexist statement. No wonder it is hard to prove rape with people like yourself on juries.

it's not"against her will"...it's "without her consent."......she can't give her consent if she is asleep ffs....and i'm not having a go at you plugger

[saint66au]

Personally I think naming names that have only ever been mentioned on BigFooty is pretty unwise.

Too many people stating things and names they assume are fact cos they read it over there

NO names have meen mentioned officially so maybe we should just forget doing it too eh?

[Milton66]

I hate to play devils advocate here but what happens if Andrew Lovett is innocent?

We all remember the saga for 2004 and the damage it did to the club and players reputations and the alleged victims were proven to be nothing but money chasing liars.

Andrew Lovett had been in the media constantly for bad behaviour and I wouldnt put it beyond someone to attempt to take advantage of that.

Before I get flamed out of existance im not saying the alleged victim in this case is a liar or was not raped and anyone that knows me will know that I hold the crime of rape and rapists in the highest contempt and honestly belive rapists should be relived of their tackle in the most painful way possible so they will never do what they did again.

The man himself is a dead set fool for getting himself into strife time after time and even after he had a precious second chance that virtually none of us get but I personalluy wont sharpen the castration knife until the allegation is proven one way or another.

BANG BANG

Well this is what makes it a complicated scenario. I agree you cannot hang the bloke just yet.

I guess it will come down to what "inside" info the club has from the other player.

If he has acted mailicously, then c ya later. If he hasn't and it's his word against hers, then he should not be sacked until the courts decide otherwise.

@ Gazrat. I agree. The PC people are quick to howl down anyone who suggests that the girl might be at fault. when the fact remains that none of us know exactly what happenned.

The old no,no,no was part of the ritual when I was younger also.

Get it on with a girl was all a sales game, always was... and awlys is. Even today, and it's not just the guys doing the selling either.

So until we know exactly what happened, let's take a deep breath.

If he is kept, send himto Sandy until he earns back the respect of the club.

Sack him when he's done nothing wrong, and you destory a person's life.

Gotta tread real carefully on this one.

[PJ]

Which is probably why many are saying it will be a difficult case to 'prove' for the prosecutors.

Which brings up the next possible chapter - what if he is found innocent? Would the club continue to keep him on the out and if they did would that be considered a restraint of his trade? Surely if the legal system finds him innocent then St.Kilda would be seen as victimising AL if they were to punish him in any way?

[degruch]

NO names have meen mentioned officially so maybe we should just forget doing it too eh?

Might be an idea to bin or edit this thread for some people's own safety!?!

[I Love Peter Kiel]

Mere abuse will not stop me.

We've heard of high-profile footballers in the past bashing their ex's new partner.

For blokes an "ex' is never really an "ex". For women an "ex" may as well belong to a previous century.

[Moods]

[


@ Gazrat. I agree. The PC people are quick to howl down anyone who suggests that the girl might be at fault. when the fact remains that none of us know exactly what happenned.

The old no,no,no was part of the ritual when I was younger also.

Get it on with a girl was all a sales game, always was... and awlys is. Even today, and it's not just the guys doing the selling either.

Yeah well I'm not that young (not that old either ) however when I grew up as soon as the girl said no you stopped right there, regardless of circumstances or whatever game she was playing or thought she was playing. If she was hesitating, then why bother?

I must be politically correct

[I Love Peter Kiel]

Just saw your post, degruch.

That is a very good point!
Not sure of the legal ramifications of this...slander?
Humans are naturally curious even to the point of hurting those they love (the Saints).
Are the mods onto this? Any chance of the whole thing being shut down for legal reasons? that would be a "death sentence" for some people.

[degruch]

Just saw your post, degruch.

That is a very good point!
Not sure of the legal ramifications of this...slander?
Humans are naturally curious even to the point of hurting those they love (the Saints).
Are the mods onto this? Any chance of the whole thing being shut down for legal reasons? that would be a "death sentence" for some people.

Well, I've been careful to play devils advocate when it comes to Lovett at this point, and he's also the only name I've dropped, but some people are saying a bit too much on here IMO.

[Moods]

Mere abuse will not stop me.

We've heard of high-profile footballers in the past bashing their ex's new partner.

For blokes an "ex' is never really an "ex". For women an "ex" may as well belong to a previous century.

Mate what are you on about? Any more generalisations you want to throw out there while we're at it?

[fingers]

Given that this forum is public and that we all dont know the personal experiences of others, could everyone please take care in what they are putting forward.


we all have friends, daughters, wifes, family members. Unfortunatly far to many people have experienced this terrible crime.

i will clarify rape does happen to a sleeping victim.
i will clarify rape is not just penetration of a penis.

if a rape was reported to the police shortly after the crime, a medical screening would of been preformed. also bedding and clothes collected.

no good can come out of this. Doubt it just as evil as confirmation.

I think your 2nd clarify needs clarification........

OUCH!

[degruch]

Given that this forum is public and that we all dont know the personal experiences of others, could everyone please take care in what they are putting forward.


we all have friends, daughters, wifes, family members. Unfortunatly far to many people have experienced this terrible crime.

i will clarify rape does happen to a sleeping victim.
i will clarify rape is not just penetration of a penis.

if a rape was reported to the police shortly after the crime, a medical screening would of been preformed. also bedding and clothes collected.

no good can come out of this. Doubt it just as evil as confirmation.

I think your 2nd clarify needs clarification........

OUCH!

Punshiment fits the crime?

[stinger]

Mere abuse will not stop me.

We've heard of high-profile footballers in the past bashing their ex's new partner.

For blokes an "ex' is never really an "ex". For women an "ex" may as well belong to a previous century.

what you were suggesting though would be an attempt to pervert the course of justice......and that pple would be willing to lie on oath to a court of law to prevent us winning a premiership........f****** laughable to say the least.....