Did we get it horribly wrong?

[stinger]

Exactly. We were two goals away from a flag.

one point actually...if the world was fair....but it's not...one of their goals was a point...and the goal after the siren doesn't count.....there was no one on the mark and the opposition player......i still can't bring myself to say that "g "word....ran over the mark....can't play on after the siren....so 1 point...imhfo....

I'm trying to relieve the pain by saying we weren't good enough to win the effing thing. Stinger we should have won it because we were the better side on the day just like Geelong were better than the Dorks the previous year. The better sides take their chances however.

I knew we were screwed when I went to the dunnies at 3/4 time and every Saints supporter there was singing the song. It made me nearly pewk because I knew we were about to lose. (Deja Vu)

At 3/4 time the song was also sung in '71 & '97. I was also there.

yeah......not good mate....

[Milan Faletic]

I think Walsh is a serious recruit and is being given one on one coaching right now.

Wouldn't surprise me to see him starting to fire mid season. It would only take an injury to a forward and he may get his chance. From all reports, his skills are well advanced, he is built like a tank, he is quicker than Nicholas Winmar over 20m. I still think McEvoy will be the big improver of 2010. Kosi needs to watch his back or he may be passed by other players.

[Milton66]

I think Walsh is a serious recruit and is being given one on one coaching right now.

Wouldn't surprise me to see him starting to fire mid season. It would only take an injury to a forward and he may get his chance. From all reports, his skills are well advanced, he is built like a tank, he is quicker than Nicholas Winmar over 20m. I still think McEvoy will be the big improver of 2010. Kosi needs to watch his back or he may be passed by other players.

The thing about Walsh is that his body is ready, but there are questions over his stamina.

With the Lovett fiasco, I think the gamble on Smith is an extremely important one now, because if he plays, it releases a running back to roam upfield or in the middle.

[Wigsy]

This garbage about giving up your first pick and claiming whatever happens is irrelevant because we picked up Walsh is the biggest laugh I've heard. Picking up Walsh was just the extra that we needed given our success in the past half decade and the lack of quality draft picks.

Giving up our first pick as a 'stab' on an experienced player is laughable when it is explained as a bit risky. Taking a 27 year old should NEVER be risky. Particularly an outside guy that has never been proved in finals, which is ultimately the ONLY important point.

The only way I can cop this is just to tell myself that pick 16 was never going to play for St Kilda. Possible. The possibility of pick 16 being even better than pick 5 is exactly why teams give up players to get picks.

No one other than Lovett should really be held responsible, but the leadership effed this up and they should also be held to account. This club and its supporters is soooo desperate for a flag and to cough up a first round draft pick for nothing is quite frankly heartbreaking. You don't get anywhere just picking up reasonable draft picks etc, you really need to outperform.

[Con Gorozidis]

i cant follow this argument from drain. tommy walsh and pick 16 were not related in any shape or form. entirely separate deals. ok we got walsh. good job on that. but surely drain is bound to do the best with pick 16 as well? not to mention 25 for ball that we never got to use...

I think the thinking was that considering we got Walsh, we didn't have to treat Pick 16 as our 'never trade away your first draft pick' sort of thing.

Under normal circumstances (ie. no Walsh) I really doubt we would have traded Pick 16.

fair enough. but im more irked with this "weak draft" stuff. its a crap message to be coming from inside a club. by all means media people can comment on it. but how do u feel if u are nick winmar? hey nick we got u at 32 - but its a weak draft so u are really only like a 70 pick normally - so to be honest deep down we think ur pretty crap.

they may as well just have said that.

[BigMart]

Plugger I could say the sky was Blue and you would question if it were correct......the fact is J.Smith rated himself very highly and the father/son assured his team mates he was a shoe in to go top three otherwise and that he was a walk up starter in the 22 at anytime and being Ross Smiths son was owed a spot on the list.....he was a lazy trainer, continual complainer and loved the clubs.....not denying he has talent...

I heard this from a couple of ex-players who I got to do a clinic at my school.....both coaching now.....top blokes..

they also told me Aaron Edwards is a pretty good kid, with some issues which hold him back....he cannot deal with boundaries..

and a few other things aswell...not too many kind words for Gibbo

[plugger66]

Plugger I could say the sky was Blue and you would question if it were correct......the fact is J.Smith rated himself very highly and the father/son assured his team mates he was a shoe in to go top three otherwise and that he was a walk up starter in the 22 at anytime and being Ross Smiths son was owed a spot on the list.....he was a lazy trainer, continual complainer and loved the clubs.....not denying he has talent...

I heard this from a couple of ex-players who I got to do a clinic at my school.....both coaching now.....top blokes..

they also told me Aaron Edwards is a pretty good kid, with some issues which hold him back....he cannot deal with boundaries..

and a few other things aswell...not too many kind words for Gibbo

You are right. I would question the fact that a couple of Ex players told you about a player. For a start who would they be. Maybe he just didnt on with them or maybe they didnt get on with the rest of the group and that is why they are ex players. I have spoken to current saints players who say he is good young confident guy. I will back our players who are now training with him than 2 delisted guys from another club.

[markp]

Now hang on P66...

top blokes.

They're 'top blokes'...

[stinger]

This garbage about giving up your first pick and claiming whatever happens is irrelevant because we picked up Walsh is the biggest laugh I've heard. Picking up Walsh was just the extra that we needed given our success in the past half decade and the lack of quality draft picks.

Giving up our first pick as a 'stab' on an experienced player is laughable when it is explained as a bit risky. Taking a 27 year old should NEVER be risky. Particularly an outside guy that has never been proved in finals, which is ultimately the ONLY important point.

The only way I can cop this is just to tell myself that pick 16 was never going to play for St Kilda. Possible. The possibility of pick 16 being even better than pick 5 is exactly why teams give up players to get picks.

No one other than Lovett should really be held responsible, but the leadership effed this up and they should also be held to account. This club and its supporters is soooo desperate for a flag and to cough up a first round draft pick for nothing is quite frankly heartbreaking. You don't get anywhere just picking up reasonable draft picks etc, you really need to outperform.

very good post imfo...

[stinger]

Plugger I could say the sky was Blue and you would question if it were correct......the fact is J.Smith rated himself very highly and the father/son assured his team mates he was a shoe in to go top three otherwise and that he was a walk up starter in the 22 at anytime and being Ross Smiths son was owed a spot on the list.....he was a lazy trainer, continual complainer and loved the clubs.....not denying he has talent...

I heard this from a couple of ex-players who I got to do a clinic at my school.....both coaching now.....top blokes..

they also told me Aaron Edwards is a pretty good kid, with some issues which hold him back....he cannot deal with boundaries..

and a few other things aswell...not too many kind words for Gibbo

seems about right to me....

[Con Gorozidis]

shame we didnt land andrejs everitt....

would have been a 100 gamer for saints.

or he could of done his knee and never played a game for us ... who knows .. Fergus watts was ment to be a 100 gamer for us as was Barry Brooks ... its all a gamble ... some pay off some dont ... no one could predict the lovett deal would end up like this not even Lovett would of though this would happen .. Smiths chances are no worse then Trengoves chances or Scullys chances.. ppl complain we lost Xman , he didnt play at all last year and struggles to play more the 6 games a year , they also complain about Goose he hadnt played for 2 years .... worst case we lose lovett , its no diff then having Hamil on the LTI for 2 years getting paid $500k , we lost Ball cause he wanted out we offered him a contract he rufused nothing the saints can do about that .... on the possitive we still ahve all except ball from a g/f 22 still on the list .. we have blokes like Big MAc Lynch and hyne waiting for a chance and guys like armo and geary ready to make that next step ... all is not doom and gloom

i can handle it if people get injured in the normal course of football games and training. we can all live with that.

and at least brooks et al gave 2 years of (false ) hope to enjoy
i dont even get that this year

[BigMart]

Not delisted Plugger.....I thought I gave it away who they were, without naming them....given the milestones these guys reached in the AFL...I would suggest retired more appropriate

Yes they were 'Top Blokes' smart arse....they do exist at other clubs....and there are absolute tools at moorabbin....as much as idiot supporters would hate to believe that

[markp]

Yes they were 'Top Blokes' smart arse....they do exist at other clubs....and there are absolute tools at moorabbin....as much as idiot supporters would hate to believe that

I dont doubt there are tools at every club....

As there are people from all walks who speak bollocks... even highly decorated past players.

How well do these guys know 'Gibbo' (do you/they mean Gilbert?) or Smith?.... I wonder what they think of these guys?

Opinions are opinions, and whether about football or people they are totally subjective.

the fact is J.Smith rated himself very highly and the father/son assured his team mates he was a shoe in to go top three otherwise and that he was a walk up starter in the 22 at anytime and being Ross Smiths son was owed a spot on the list.....he was a lazy trainer, continual complainer and loved the clubs.....not denying he has talent...

I heard this from a couple of ex-players who I got to do a clinic at my school.....both coaching now.....top blokes..

Give me a break....... all subjective, secondhand opinion... not fact.

[BigMart]

Gibbo -> Gilbert ..... where does that come from......another can inform you if you cannot work that out....FFS

[joffaboy]

Yes they were 'Top Blokes' smart arse....they do exist at other clubs....and there are absolute tools at moorabbin....as much as idiot supporters would hate to believe that

I dont doubt there are tools at every club....

As there are people from all walks who speak bollocks... even highly decorated past players.

How well do these guys know 'Gibbo' (do you/they mean Gilbert?) or Smith?.... I wonder what they think of these guys?

Opinions are opinions, and whether about football or people they are totally subjective.

the fact is J.Smith rated himself very highly and the father/son assured his team mates he was a shoe in to go top three otherwise and that he was a walk up starter in the 22 at anytime and being Ross Smiths son was owed a spot on the list.....he was a lazy trainer, continual complainer and loved the clubs.....not denying he has talent...

I heard this from a couple of ex-players who I got to do a clinic at my school.....both coaching now.....top blokes..

Give me a break....... all subjective, secondhand opinion... not fact.

You doubting the word of the oracle???

Look out markp.

[markp]

Cheers for the heads-up JB... you're a 'top bloke' (.fact)

[plugger66]

Not delisted Plugger.....I thought I gave it away who they were, without naming them....given the milestones these guys reached in the AFL...I would suggest retired more appropriate

Yes they were 'Top Blokes' smart arse....they do exist at other clubs....and there are absolute tools at moorabbin....as much as idiot supporters would hate to believe that

Top blokes after doing one footy clinic with them. No wonder you right off players so easily. At least it looks like you have Stinger on your side. May I suggest before you slag off one of our players on non footballing issues that you at least maybe get a few facts or at least make it sound like it is your opinion and not fact. The fact is you have no idea what sort of bloke Smith is apart from a footy clinic with 2 top blokes you probably met for 3 hours.

[markp]

You're a top bloke too plugger66..... (again, fact)

[Moods]

This garbage about giving up your first pick and claiming whatever happens is irrelevant because we picked up Walsh is the biggest laugh I've heard. Picking up Walsh was just the extra that we needed given our success in the past half decade and the lack of quality draft picks.

Giving up our first pick as a 'stab' on an experienced player is laughable when it is explained as a bit risky. Taking a 27 year old should NEVER be risky. Particularly an outside guy that has never been proved in finals, which is ultimately the ONLY important point.

The only way I can cop this is just to tell myself that pick 16 was never going to play for St Kilda. Possible. The possibility of pick 16 being even better than pick 5 is exactly why teams give up players to get picks.

No one other than Lovett should really be held responsible, but the leadership effed this up and they should also be held to account. This club and its supporters is soooo desperate for a flag and to cough up a first round draft pick for nothing is quite frankly heartbreaking. You don't get anywhere just picking up reasonable draft picks etc, you really need to outperform.

very good post imfo...

Yes. Summed up perfectly. Well said Wigsy.

[plugger66]

You're a top bloke too plugger66..... (again, fact)

Big Mart this proves that what is written or said to you isnt always fact.

[BigMart]

It is funny how you have taken such an offence....wonder why

you were the same idiot that went a bit nuts after I labelled Lovett a moron soon after we traded him....ahem..

how many times do we hear whan a forumite meets a player it is commented that he was a top bloke or good bloke.....most people just take it on board as a comment about how the player came across.....
No it was a massive issue....why?

and to try and discredit me and ASSUME its bulls*** and the players are 'delisted' (which makes zero difference) and they wouldn't comment about someone......it seems you are making the assumptions and I am just commenting on what I heard.....


and it PROBABLY wasn't 3 hours either....it was 9-3 o'clock 6 school periods....they instructed about 250 kids over the day on footy, self-esteem, goal setting, drug and alcohol etc....and took some drills......

but YOU WOULD KNOW......because I probably met them for 3 hours and they were just delisted players running a clinic who would't speak to the person organizing the thing......we didn't chat over lunch....

Not sure why I am explaining this to you....possibly because it annoys me how you KNOW for sure that I am wrong.... and the smug condescending tone in your post.....and your mate trying to mock over the good bloke comment....even more ridiculous

just like the Heath Black story.......remember....I was wrong about that also, yeah....

Somet

[markp]

Wow... 6 whole hours?!

Did the kids manage to get much of a look in during that time?

Did these top blokes think you were a top bloke also?

Have they called you since to say g'day or organise a catch up?

What did they give you for xmas?

Surely you'd think their views on the character of a couple of our players would have to be spot on (after all, they once played the game).... regardless of what these players' actual teammates, coaches, friends or even families may think of them... and I mean you were in the general vicinity of these guys for about 6 hours, so of course we should trust their judgement... and yours for that matter.

Please accept my apology.

[plugger66]

It is funny how you have taken such an offence....wonder why

you were the same idiot that went a bit nuts after I labelled Lovett a moron soon after we traded him....ahem..

how many times do we hear whan a forumite meets a player it is commented that he was a top bloke or good bloke.....most people just take it on board as a comment about how the player came across.....
No it was a massive issue....why?

and to try and discredit me and ASSUME its bulls*** and the players are 'delisted' (which makes zero difference) and they wouldn't comment about someone......it seems you are making the assumptions and I am just commenting on what I heard.....


and it PROBABLY wasn't 3 hours either....it was 9-3 o'clock 6 school periods....they instructed about 250 kids over the day on footy, self-esteem, goal setting, drug and alcohol etc....and took some drills......

but YOU WOULD KNOW......because I probably met them for 3 hours and they were just delisted players running a clinic who would't speak to the person organizing the thing......we didn't chat over lunch....

Not sure why I am explaining this to you....possibly because it annoys me how you KNOW for sure that I am wrong.... and the smug condescending tone in your post.....and your mate trying to mock over the good bloke comment....even more ridiculous

just like the Heath Black story.......remember....I was wrong about that also, yeah....

Somet

Firstly I would love to see the post where I had a go at you for labelling Lovett a moron because if you look at my posts on both incidents with Lovett I have had strong opinions on him and they havent been positive and that is based on fact that has happened previously not a 5 minute conversation with 2 ex players who could just be saying anything to you and it is only their opinion anyway. As I said I will trust the guys who are training with him now and they have nothing negative to say about him at all and that is also their opinion unlike your first comment on Smith which you basically stated as fact. That is the issue. As for mate, I suppose you mean MarkP well if you had noticed he will certainly have a go at me if he thinks I am wrong as me with him. Maybe in this case he just thinks your post is wrong.

Dont know anything about the Black post or certainly cannot remember it anyway but good luck if you got one thing right.

[joffaboy]

Firstly I would love to see the post where I had a go at you for labelling Lovett a moron because if you look at my posts on both incidents with Lovett I have had strong opinions on him and they havent been positive and that is based on fact that has happened previously not a 5 minute conversation with 2 ex players who could just be saying anything to you and it is only their opinion anyway.

Think he may be getting you mixed up with me.

I was pretty critical of his canning of a player as a "moron" and was willing to give the player a chance. I was pretty pissed off at St.Mart and the way he critisised new players without giving them a chance. This started years ago with him bagging Howard because JB chose him at #27, also labelling JB an "egomanic".

I tend to think that you give an 18 y.o. a go before tearing them a new one.

As for Lovett. I tend to give the benefit of the doubt, even when he was picked up for drunkeness.

You see again apparently you cant give a player a chance in St.Mart world, but then if that player is accused of a heinous crime, you aren't allowed to then no longer give the player the benefit of the doubt.

Also it is some sort of triumph for St.Mart that Lovett has been accused of rape and he is vindicated.

I am very happy for St.Mart that he is now vindicated, hope he feels very smug now he has turned the alleged rape of a woman into a parlour game to satisfy his self esteeem and ego.

Well done - I'm impressed.

[St Fidelius]

As for Lovett. I tend to give the benefit of the doubt, even when he was picked up for drunkeness.

You see again apparently you cant give a player a chance in St.Mart world, but then if that player is accused of a heinous crime, you aren't allowed to then no longer give the player the benefit of the doubt.

Also it is some sort of triumph for St.Mart that Lovett has been accused of rape and he is vindicated.

I am very happy for St.Mart that he is now vindicated, hope he feels very smug now he has turned the alleged rape of a woman into a parlour game to satisfy his self esteeem and ego.

Well done - I'm impressed.

Yep, it really amazes me that this St Mart, Big Mart, Marto or whatever name he next chooses, actually remembers when he was at this clinic, seeing that he keeps forgetting his password for Saintsational and that's his reason for changing nics...