He is gone...rumour

[Milton66]

Can someone please summarize that in 30 words or less?

Is MB reall Kim Beazley?

[3rd generation saint]

I don't know which overseas people you have been talking too, but everyone of my American friends who live in America, love the game and would love to go to one if they could get down here during the season.
It has everything Americans love about sport, it's fast, teams score regularly, players tackle each other and it has drama.
All of these reasons probably explain why soccer has never been a success in the U.S. beyond 10 year olds and their moms.

[rodgerfox]

I don't know which overseas people you have been talking too, but everyone of my American friends who live in America, love the game and would love to go to one if they could get down here during the season.
It has everything Americans love about sport, it's fast, teams score regularly, players tackle each other and it has drama.
All of these reasons probably explain why soccer has never been a success in the U.S. beyond 10 year olds and their moms.

Good point actually.

The game is very much Americanised. And no surprise that the AFL honchos do annual trips to the States to 'research' the NFL.

The problem with that though, is it reallly supports my point.

The Yanks are cool with a club changing it's name like I change my jocks. They're cool with a club pulling up stumps and moving somewhere else. They don't generally give a shiit - because they're (generally) passionate about the sport.
They're passionate about watching it. Which in American sport, is the main thing.

Australian's generally follow things they are parochial about. Ford or Holden, the cricket, the NRL, the AFL, and slowly the A-League due it's 'state vs state' rivalry that is slowly being built up.

The AFL have made it pretty clear that they think the American way is the go. Remove the contact as much as possible, speed it up, sanitise it, and charge people to even think about it.

Aussies however, I believe, will simply start watching something else if the passion and tribal element is removed from the footy. Which it has been.

[rodgerfox]

Yeah.... RL didn't win us a flag, gambled and lost on a couple of draft picks, time to sack him.

Sheesh, but for Pakistan's imeptitude we could have had Ricky Ponting.

Black or white.
With us or against us.
Love or hate.
Success or sack.

And people get upset when I say the average footy fan is a moron.


Surely it's Ok to criticise someone or something without wanting them killed, sacked or beaten up?

[Milton66]

If it was about passion for the game, then VFL attendances would be much higher.

The strength of footy following was the suburban tribalism it once represented.

However, this no longer exists. Demographics have changed, as has people's needs.

I think this is why we see fluctuations in membership numbers. People like to be associated with winners.

Times have changed, and so has the game. Rightly or wrongly.

I must admit that going to a game and standing in the rain no longer appeals to me.

I also think we're stil luck to have huge attendances. And by the way, the people are voting with there feet and attendances have gone up. I'd be interested to see a comparison betwen aggregate attendances compared to population grwoth to get the real icture.

Anyways, back on track... TV rights are a massive income source, so I can understand why the game is being Americanised.. or Televisionised.

[saint66au]

I don't know which overseas people you have been talking too, but everyone of my American friends who live in America, love the game and would love to go to one if they could get down here during the season.
It has everything Americans love about sport, it's fast, teams score regularly, players tackle each other and it has drama.
All of these reasons probably explain why soccer has never been a success in the U.S. beyond 10 year olds and their moms.

Good point actually.

The game is very much Americanised. And no surprise that the AFL honchos do annual trips to the States to 'research' the NFL.

The problem with that though, is it reallly supports my point.

The Yanks are cool with a club changing it's name like I change my jocks. They're cool with a club pulling up stumps and moving somewhere else. They don't generally give a shiit - because they're (generally) passionate about the sport.
They're passionate about watching it. Which in American sport, is the main thing.

Australian's generally follow things they are parochial about. Ford or Holden, the cricket, the NRL, the AFL, and slowly the A-League due it's 'state vs state' rivalry that is slowly being built up.

The AFL have made it pretty clear that they think the American way is the go. Remove the contact as much as possible, speed it up, sanitise it, and charge people to even think about it.

Aussies however, I believe, will simply start watching something else if the passion and tribal element is removed from the footy. Which it has been.

The difference between Aussie sport and Americam sport is that Aussies actually go and support their teams live on a regular basis, because its affordable

Go have a look at how much a season ticket is for the average NFL or even college football game in the states and you'll see why people choose to watch it on TV

Same goes for NBA, MLB and NHL games

[Milton66]

I don't know which overseas people you have been talking too, but everyone of my American friends who live in America, love the game and would love to go to one if they could get down here during the season.
It has everything Americans love about sport, it's fast, teams score regularly, players tackle each other and it has drama.
All of these reasons probably explain why soccer has never been a success in the U.S. beyond 10 year olds and their moms.

Good point actually.

The game is very much Americanised. And no surprise that the AFL honchos do annual trips to the States to 'research' the NFL.

The problem with that though, is it reallly supports my point.

The Yanks are cool with a club changing it's name like I change my jocks. They're cool with a club pulling up stumps and moving somewhere else. They don't generally give a shiit - because they're (generally) passionate about the sport.
They're passionate about watching it. Which in American sport, is the main thing.

Australian's generally follow things they are parochial about. Ford or Holden, the cricket, the NRL, the AFL, and slowly the A-League due it's 'state vs state' rivalry that is slowly being built up.

The AFL have made it pretty clear that they think the American way is the go. Remove the contact as much as possible, speed it up, sanitise it, and charge people to even think about it.

Aussies however, I believe, will simply start watching something else if the passion and tribal element is removed from the footy. Which it has been.

The difference between Aussie sport and Americam sport is that Aussies actually go and support their teams live on a regular basis, because its affordable

Go have a look at how much a season ticket is for the average NFL or even college football game in the states and you'll see why people choose to watch it on TV

Same goes for NBA, MLB and NHL games

My mates took to Miami to see the Basketball... $25 for a bourbon and coke.

The other thing to remember is that for the main, most of our population live in major cities and it's actually easier to get to a game.

USA suffers to geographic constraints coz the place is so big... and let's not forget that it's population is so much bigger.

The only way more people would go is if they built stadiums that hold 1 million people.

[rodgerfox]

If it was about passion for the game, then VFL attendances would be much higher.

They were before the AFL pillaged the VFL.

Passionate supporters of VFL clubs found themselves supporting AFL reserves teams - which clearly didn't appeal.

[bobmurray]

he's gone

[SaintWodonga]

he's gone

How do you know?

[Milton66]

If it was about passion for the game, then VFL attendances would be much higher.

They were before the AFL pillaged the VFL.

Passionate supporters of VFL clubs found themselves supporting AFL reserves teams - which clearly didn't appeal.

Um, if I recall, the then VFL decided to go national. Whether this was seen as visionary or simply a neccesity to survive... I have no idea.

That decision will never be reversed. As I said, it was suburban rivalry.

Who lives in Nth Melb or Footscray these days? Or even Collingwood for that matter.

Evolution like change is inevitable.

I have fond memories as a kid going to the footy every Saturday. 6 games... check the scores on the board... A v B etc.

But life goes on.

We digress. Perhaps fodder for another thread?

[asiu]

tribal

thats me

for life

u dudes ... god help me

[Spinner]

If it was about passion for the game, then VFL attendances would be much higher.

They were before the AFL pillaged the VFL.

Passionate supporters of VFL clubs found themselves supporting AFL reserves teams - which clearly didn't appeal.

Um, if I recall, the then VFL decided to go national. Whether this was seen as visionary or simply a neccesity to survive... I have no idea.

That decision will never be reversed. As I said, it was suburban rivalry.

Who lives in Nth Melb or Footscray these days? Or even Collingwood for that matter.

Evolution like change is inevitable.

I have fond memories as a kid going to the footy every Saturday. 6 games... check the scores on the board... A v B etc.

But life goes on.

We digress. Perhaps fodder for another thread?

I think Fox was talking about VFL clubs being affiliated with AFL clubs and in effect housing reserve players in their sides. Rather than the then VFL's transition into the AFL.

I might be wrong.

[bigred]

If only GT were here.

[poatina]

Sorry Stinger,
late reply to your question:
poatina......went there once......tasmanian hydro town isn't it....???
_________________
It was indeed , it's now owned by a religious outfit, I've forgotten the name . Its in Northern Tas , on the way up ( or down !) the Western Tiers.

[plugger66]

I don't know which overseas people you have been talking too, but everyone of my American friends who live in America, love the game and would love to go to one if they could get down here during the season.
It has everything Americans love about sport, it's fast, teams score regularly, players tackle each other and it has drama.
All of these reasons probably explain why soccer has never been a success in the U.S. beyond 10 year olds and their moms.

Good point actually.

The game is very much Americanised. And no surprise that the AFL honchos do annual trips to the States to 'research' the NFL.

The problem with that though, is it reallly supports my point.

The Yanks are cool with a club changing it's name like I change my jocks. They're cool with a club pulling up stumps and moving somewhere else. They don't generally give a shiit - because they're (generally) passionate about the sport.
They're passionate about watching it. Which in American sport, is the main thing.

Australian's generally follow things they are parochial about. Ford or Holden, the cricket, the NRL, the AFL, and slowly the A-League due it's 'state vs state' rivalry that is slowly being built up.

The AFL have made it pretty clear that they think the American way is the go. Remove the contact as much as possible, speed it up, sanitise it, and charge people to even think about it.

Aussies however, I believe, will simply start watching something else if the passion and tribal element is removed from the footy. Which it has been.

You may be watching something else but luckily for the AFL most other people are watching the AFL both live and on TV so your last comment is pure speculation based on no facts at all.

The one thing that amazes me is that you write you have no passion for game but you obviously continue to read a website on our footy club and continually write passionately that you have no passion for the game.

[3rd generation saint]

MLB regular season games are actually quite affordable, as for Americans not caring about teams moving? maybe you should talk to the people of Baltimore and Cleveland who we're less than impressed when their football teams moved.
The Colts we're originally in Baltimore and sneaked out overnight to go to Indianopolis, and the original Briowns moved to Baltimore and had to change their names to the Ravens, the NFL had to promise Cleveland the next franchise.
Also the people of LA are not happy they don't have an NFL franchise and you can bet their city is earmarked for the next franchise.
They are passionate about their sport, but as you said due to much larger populations which creates much more demand, getting tickets to go to games is very precious.
I remember my father's best friend when I asked him in March 1992 if there was any chance of going to see Syracuse University play when I visited in October and was told that I would have to have booked back in 1990 for a seat in the 55,000 seat Carrier Dome.

[iwantmeseats]

RF, 98% of what you post is utter bollocks. This post in this thread funnily enough does NOT fall into the remaining 2 %. Agreed with Plugger, why the f*** do you keep coming here?

[rodgerfox]

The one thing that amazes me is that you write you have no passion for game but you obviously continue to read a website on our footy club and continually write passionately that you have no passion for the game.

The one thing that amazes me is that you whinge about what I post like a child, yet respond all the time.

[rodgerfox]

RF, 98% of what you post is utter bollocks. This post in this thread funnily enough does NOT fall into the remaining 2 %. Agreed with Plugger, why the f*** do you keep coming here?

I love stats.

[cowboy18]

The one thing that amazes me is that you write you have no passion for game but you obviously continue to read a website on our footy club and continually write passionately that you have no passion for the game.

I share the disenchantment with the game - it's the club that engages with me.

I miss many of the provincial things that I used to love about the game (one on one duels, forwards that played up front, speccies, celebrations of individual brilliance, players kicking to competitions, long kicks, to name some that are not as prevalent as they used to be). If you want to see the end point of favouring care over flair look at rugby union at the highest levels (tests, super 14). It's rubbish compared the suburban first grade efforts which are genuinely entertaining.

AFL's move towards teams of athletes rather than teams of footballers frustrates me.

But the connection with the club drags me back to the game (& the forum). Even then, the passion for club diminishes as they forget to support their supporters.

[matrix]

i guess the #9 is going to be left in the locker room this year then...

[asiu]

the passion for club diminishes as they forget to support their supporters.

got that stick , stuck up me as well

[Elvis]

I don't know which overseas people you have been talking too, but everyone of my American friends who live in America, love the game and would love to go to one if they could get down here during the season.
It has everything Americans love about sport, it's fast, teams score regularly, players tackle each other and it has drama.
All of these reasons probably explain why soccer has never been a success in the U.S. beyond 10 year olds and their moms.

Good point actually.

The game is very much Americanised. And no surprise that the AFL honchos do annual trips to the States to 'research' the NFL.

The problem with that though, is it reallly supports my point.

The Yanks are cool with a club changing it's name like I change my jocks. They're cool with a club pulling up stumps and moving somewhere else. They don't generally give a shiit - because they're (generally) passionate about the sport.
They're passionate about watching it. Which in American sport, is the main thing.

Australian's generally follow things they are parochial about. Ford or Holden, the cricket, the NRL, the AFL, and slowly the A-League due it's 'state vs state' rivalry that is slowly being built up.

The AFL have made it pretty clear that they think the American way is the go. Remove the contact as much as possible, speed it up, sanitise it, and charge people to even think about it.

Aussies however, I believe, will simply start watching something else if the passion and tribal element is removed from the footy. Which it has been.

Not so sure it is as clear as all this. There is a massive amount of tribal parochialism attached to sport in the US, it just does not exist as readily at the top levels of each sport, namely NFL, Ice Hockey and Basketball, with perhaps baseball being the exception. The issue with US sport is that at the top level, it has become out of reach of the average Joe citizen. This is partly why passionate tribal parochialism is rampant at college/school level. Americans tend to follow their local college/school teams in the same way as we, for example, might have followed a VFA side in (glory) days past. It a generalisation (and an unfair one) to suggest that sport in America is packaged, corporate and lacking in demographic allignment.

The odd thing is that I don't think this applies to baseball, which is still very much the people's game, probably because there are just so many games played throughout the season.

The thing I feel we need to fight, whether we love the game of Australian Football itself or are tribally connected or a mixture of both, is moves by any governing authority to take the game away from the ordinary suburbanite and place it in the hands of the corporates. Sadly, I think we have lost this battle when it comes to the Grand Final. I was genuinely upset this year to have witnessed a half dressed (remember, it was freezing), champagne toting airhead hanging off the arm off an equally pissed corporate suit before the start of the game.... they were clearly just there for the occasion, and not the game itself. Hard to swallow when I'd lined up with my ten year old son at 8.30 for a good viewing possie in standing room... after having driven for two days to get there in the first place!

And don't anyone even start with the line about how the corporate dollar has kept the game alive. The corporate dollar comes from the pockets of you and I.

How all this ends up in a thread that I think started about the Lovett debacle.. I don't know!

Anyways, end of rant, I'm off to Parkes

[sainterinsydney]

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/s ... 5817725309

New Lovett article.