Lovett interviewed by Police

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Milan Faletic
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Post: # 869347Post Milan Faletic »

Moccha wrote:
Milan Faletic wrote:I think this is an extremely difficult issue for me to comment on. It is far more significant than a football game. I am just disappointed that in a matter of three months since the end of the 2009 season, Andrew Lovett's name is the only name from the St. Kilda Football Club that has been associated with potentially illegal behaviour.
Are you saying you would like more footballers from the St. Kilda Football Club to be associated with potentially illegal behaviour?

You need to be careful how you word that otherwise Dodgy Fox will start interpreting it as something that you mean which will result in another 18 pages of drivel.

Happy New Year to all. I hope Sanity starts prevailing on this forum!
Fixed, Moccha.

We wouldn't want RF to do an abductor......hahahaha


GrumpyOne

Post: # 869355Post GrumpyOne »

St Fidelius wrote:Just to let posters know, I have assisted in four alleged rape cases in the past twelve months, and I have given MY OPINION on this one....

Take it or leave it, I really don't care.....


But I detest posters like BS miss quoting me and stating that the alleged victim must be a liar if there is insufficient evidence ...

Of the four alleged rape cases that I have assisted I have little doubt that 1 or 2 may have happened, but I would doubt that there would even be a brief of evidence presented.

Again, take it or leave it, I could not give a F***.

But IMO BS has not a clue in hell about the processes and his posts about both myself and joffaboy are insulting
Disgraceful misquoting from BS.

St Fid and Joffa are on the money here.

Very hard in a court of law to make one person''s word stick against another person''s word without supporting evidence from somewhere. Don't hang Lovett yet; indications are that it will be a tough one to prosecute.


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ace
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Post: # 869372Post ace »

GrumpyOne wrote:
St Fidelius wrote:Just to let posters know, I have assisted in four alleged rape cases in the past twelve months, and I have given MY OPINION on this one....

Take it or leave it, I really don't care.....


But I detest posters like BS miss quoting me and stating that the alleged victim must be a liar if there is insufficient evidence ...

Of the four alleged rape cases that I have assisted I have little doubt that 1 or 2 may have happened, but I would doubt that there would even be a brief of evidence presented.

Again, take it or leave it, I could not give a F***.

But IMO BS has not a clue in hell about the processes and his posts about both myself and joffaboy are insulting
Disgraceful misquoting from BS.

St Fid and Joffa are on the money here.

Very hard in a court of law to make one person''s word stick against another person''s word without supporting evidence from somewhere. Don't hang Lovett yet; indications are that it will be a tough one to prosecute.

The key to any court case is the facts that are NOT in dispute.

Physical evidence in rape cases is not normally sufficient.
Things like semen present or not present.
Physical injuries.
These can occur with consent that is then reversed after the fact.

It is the evidence that alleged participants and witnesses give that is important.
Witnesses can place the two participants at a location but if they did not see or hear anything then it is down to the accuser's and accused's verbal testimony.

Rapists are generally stupid, it is what they tell the police or the courts that gets them convicted.
Getting caught in an obvious lie like "there was no penetration" when semen is present does not help.
But it statements like, "I knew she wanted it but she was passed out so she didn't say yes or no" that enable convictions.

In Lovett's case it is what he has admitted happened that will set him free, lead to a charge, or lead to a conviction.

Our courts deal with the evidence of actions NOT the unproveable reality of actions.
That is why so many known villains remain at large.

Should he be aquitted it will again be what he admits that will determine his playing future.
The club and the AFL will hold him to a higher standard than the courts.


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When I was a young child, I knew that I knew so much about so much.
Now that I am old and know so much more, I know that I know so much about so little, and so little about so much.

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St Fidelius
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Post: # 869375Post St Fidelius »

ace wrote:
GrumpyOne wrote:
St Fidelius wrote:Just to let posters know, I have assisted in four alleged rape cases in the past twelve months, and I have given MY OPINION on this one....

Take it or leave it, I really don't care.....


But I detest posters like BS miss quoting me and stating that the alleged victim must be a liar if there is insufficient evidence ...

Of the four alleged rape cases that I have assisted I have little doubt that 1 or 2 may have happened, but I would doubt that there would even be a brief of evidence presented.

Again, take it or leave it, I could not give a F***.

But IMO BS has not a clue in hell about the processes and his posts about both myself and joffaboy are insulting
Disgraceful misquoting from BS.

St Fid and Joffa are on the money here.

Very hard in a court of law to make one person''s word stick against another person''s word without supporting evidence from somewhere. Don't hang Lovett yet; indications are that it will be a tough one to prosecute.

The key to any court case is the facts that are NOT in dispute.

Physical evidence in rape cases is not normally sufficient.
Things like semen present or not present.
Physical injuries.
These can occur with consent that is then reversed after the fact.

It is the evidence that alleged participants and witnesses give that is important.
Witnesses can place the two participants at a location but if they did not see or hear anything then it is down to the accuser's and accused's verbal testimony.

Rapists are generally stupid, it is what they tell the police or the courts that gets them convicted.
Getting caught in an obvious lie like "there was no penetration" when semen is present does not help.
But it statements like, "I knew she wanted it but she was passed out so she didn't say yes or no" that enable convictions.

In Lovett's case it is what he has admitted happened that will set him free, lead to a charge, or lead to a conviction.

Our courts deal with the evidence of actions NOT the unproveable reality of actions.
That is why so many known villains remain at large.

Should he be aquitted it will again be what he admits that will determine his playing future.
The club and the AFL will hold him to a higher standard than the courts.
Yes, but that's not just confined to rapist as being generally stupid...

Yes, there are so many cases where it is the females version v the males version of events with no other evidence...

and yes the question is often deliberated on whether the act was consensual, and if both parties differ without any other evidence it is very hard to prove as far as the law goes.

Just my opinion, but I think after a two hour interview he would have provided more than a "no comment" interview...(whether it was for a statement or a record of interview) in any case it was without his "mouthpiece" David Grace ....

He would have given HIS version of events and one would suggest that they would conflict with the complaints record of events...


Don't wait for the light at the end of the tunnel to appear, run down there and light the bloody thing yourself!
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Con Gorozidis
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Post: # 869390Post Con Gorozidis »

ive just read all the posts and most things have been covered on the legal/contract/procedural matters.

But the the though that keeps recurring and circling in my head is "this dude must just be thick as".


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Post: # 869391Post Teflon »

Con Gorozidis wrote:ive just read all the posts and most things have been covered on the legal/contract/procedural matters.

But the the though that keeps recurring and circling in my head is "this dude must just be thick as".
I agree Con.

Ive not posted much on this as to be honest Im just so p!ssed off...

To me Lovett was the missing ingredient for us this year.....just cant get over the fact after his first stufff up so soon his in another...you can only be left wondering what a drop kick...

What I worry about is what this distraction means to our pre season at a time when we should be focussed on avenging a loss in a GF I still think we had in the bag....


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Post: # 869393Post saintspremiers »

Con Gorozidis wrote:ive just read all the posts and most things have been covered on the legal/contract/procedural matters.

But the the though that keeps recurring and circling in my head is "this dude must just be thick as".
He is a dipshit - does anyone disagree with that?

But also a required player.

Such is the conflict of the world of AFL post GT.....


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Post: # 869394Post plugger66 »

GrumpyOne wrote:
St Fidelius wrote:Just to let posters know, I have assisted in four alleged rape cases in the past twelve months, and I have given MY OPINION on this one....

Take it or leave it, I really don't care.....


But I detest posters like BS miss quoting me and stating that the alleged victim must be a liar if there is insufficient evidence ...

Of the four alleged rape cases that I have assisted I have little doubt that 1 or 2 may have happened, but I would doubt that there would even be a brief of evidence presented.

Again, take it or leave it, I could not give a F***.

But IMO BS has not a clue in hell about the processes and his posts about both myself and joffaboy are insulting
Disgraceful misquoting from BS.

St Fid and Joffa are on the money here.

Very hard in a court of law to make one person''s word stick against another person''s word without supporting evidence from somewhere. Don't hang Lovett yet; indications are that it will be a tough one to prosecute.
I think the point that most seem to forget on here is that the saints need to make a decision way before the courts so whether he is guity or not will not come into it. Courts work on innocent until proven guilty. I think our club will work the opposite way due to previous form or what they have been told from Lovett and the other player present.


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matrix
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Post: # 869396Post matrix »

dare i say it
GT was pretty much correct, along with a few others by the looks of it.

of course hindsight is a great thing...

http://www.perthnow.com.au/sport/afl/so ... 5800640999

(written on nov 20th, before the latest incident)


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Post: # 869405Post saintsRrising »

matrix wrote:dare i say it
GT was pretty much correct, along with a few others by the looks of it.
Lyon is a coach all about giving second chances and an opportunity for the player to deliver.

Some have taken that opportunity and prospered..ie McQualter, Jones, Dal, Milne (was on the tade table when Lyon arrived), Gardi....others such as Fiora have fallen by the wayside.

Giving second chances is never going to be a 100% successful process...

So far Lyon and Drain have had more successes than failures. But yes Lovett may well be one of the failures.


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Post: # 869406Post Saints43 »

saintsRrising wrote:Lyon is a coach all about giving second chances and an opportunity for the player to deliver.

Some have taken that opportunity and prospered..ie McQualter, Jones, Dal, Milne (was on the tade table when Lyon arrived), Gardi....others such as Fiora have fallen by the wayside.

Giving second chances is never going to be a 100% successful process...

So far Lyon and Drain have had more successes than failures. But yes Lovett may well be one of the failures.
Great examples, how Dal fought back from being dropped was unprecedented, Milne was on the trade table because he didn't perform in big matches, McQualter was delisted by the same staff that gave him his second chance, St Kilda is Jones' first chance.

The one example we have of taking a player with a troubled off-field past is Gardiner. That has been a massive success. At the end of 2009 we had a 100% record in this area.

That percentage may drop fairly dramatically in 2010.

Let's hope that AL is innocent of the allegations.


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Post: # 869414Post stinger »

Teflon wrote:
Con Gorozidis wrote:ive just read all the posts and most things have been covered on the legal/contract/procedural matters.

But the the though that keeps recurring and circling in my head is "this dude must just be thick as".
I agree Con.

Ive not posted much on this as to be honest Im just so p!ssed off...

To me Lovett was the missing ingredient for us this year.....just cant get over the fact after his first stufff up so soon his in another...you can only be left wondering what a drop kick...

What I worry about is what this distraction means to our pre season at a time when we should be focussed on avenging a loss in a GF I still think we had in the bag....

yep

yep

yep

and
yep...


.everybody still loves lenny....and we always will

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Post: # 869425Post meher baba »

saintsRrising wrote:
matrix wrote:dare i say it
GT was pretty much correct, along with a few others by the looks of it.
Lyon is a coach all about giving second chances and an opportunity for the player to deliver.

Some have taken that opportunity and prospered..ie McQualter, Jones, Dal, Milne (was on the tade table when Lyon arrived), Gardi....others such as Fiora have fallen by the wayside.

Giving second chances is never going to be a 100% successful process...

So far Lyon and Drain have had more successes than failures. But yes Lovett may well be one of the failures.
I don't quite agree with your interpretation. Lyon and, in particular, Drain, have been particularly about getting their hands on ready made AFL players by any means: trades, rookie lists, drafts, whatever. There seems to be a strong preference for seasoned players, as reflected in Lyon's comment that it takes 4 seasons for most AFL players to hit their straps.

M Clarke, Gardi, C Jones (seasoned WAFL player), Attard, Schneider, Dempster, King, C Gardiner, Ray, Dawson, Begley, Lovett, Peake, Smith, Pattison (did I miss any?) plus we tried for Judd, O'Keeffe, Kennelly, A Everitt (and probably others we don't know about) and also almost took Cousins.

Quite a list!!
Of those we have taken, I reckon Lovett (along with Gardi when fit) is easily the most talented. In footballing terms, I was far happier with his recruitment than with that of Schneider, Dempster, Ray or Peake.

Alas it seems to have turned out badly, like the trades of 1st round picks under GT. Never mind, let's move on and hope the club will take it as a signal to return its focus to developing talent rather than trying to buy it in

Looking long term, I'm still more concerned about the departure of Ball than I am about the apparent failure of Lovett.


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Post: # 869444Post sainterinsydney »

On pure football ability, I would have Lovett anyday if there was a choice between him or Ball.


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Post: # 869608Post Teflon »

sainterinsydney wrote:On pure football ability, I would have Lovett anyday if there was a choice between him or Ball.
As would I.

We can cover what Ball delivered.

We've not had for a long long time what Lovett could've.


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Post: # 869622Post rodgerfox »

I still reckon Lovett was/is overrated.


And seriously, does anyone really think Ross Lyon would allow him to be the unaccountable shirker that he's been for his entire career?

Lyon didn't let Dal, Milne and Ball get away with it - why would he let Lovett?

I think it would have taken a guy like Lovett 2-3 seasons to learn how to play footy the way Lyon wants it.


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Post: # 869625Post Moods »

rodgerfox wrote:I still reckon Lovett was/is overrated.


And seriously, does anyone really think Ross Lyon would allow him to be the unaccountable shirker that he's been for his entire career?

Lyon didn't let Dal, Milne and Ball get away with it - why would he let Lovett?

I think it would have taken a guy like Lovett 2-3 seasons to learn how to play footy the way Lyon wants it.
In this respect I agree completely with Rodgerfox. However not sure it would take 2-3 years. Took Farren Ray virtually no time at all. That's what happens to some blokes when they realise it's make or break. But agree that Lovett is very overated by many on this forum. I'm just hoping we get a chance to find out!


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Post: # 869630Post matrix »

saintsRrising wrote:
matrix wrote:dare i say it
GT was pretty much correct, along with a few others by the looks of it.
Lyon is a coach all about giving second chances and an opportunity for the player to deliver.

Some have taken that opportunity and prospered..ie McQualter, Jones, Dal, Milne (was on the tade table when Lyon arrived), Gardi....others such as Fiora have fallen by the wayside.

Giving second chances is never going to be a 100% successful process...

So far Lyon and Drain have had more successes than failures. But yes Lovett may well be one of the failures.
where did i mention lyon in my post?????
why automatically as soon as a previous coach by the name of GT is brought up it automatically creates the response of comparision to the current one
???????????


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Post: # 869633Post Maxstar22 »

Just a curious question for the legal eagles/law enforcement forumites on here….

With regards “consentâ€


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Post: # 869634Post rodgerfox »

Moods wrote:
rodgerfox wrote:I still reckon Lovett was/is overrated.


And seriously, does anyone really think Ross Lyon would allow him to be the unaccountable shirker that he's been for his entire career?

Lyon didn't let Dal, Milne and Ball get away with it - why would he let Lovett?

I think it would have taken a guy like Lovett 2-3 seasons to learn how to play footy the way Lyon wants it.
In this respect I agree completely with Rodgerfox. However not sure it would take 2-3 years. Took Farren Ray virtually no time at all. That's what happens to some blokes when they realise it's make or break. But agree that Lovett is very overated by many on this forum. I'm just hoping we get a chance to find out!
I don't think Ray's 'problems' at the Dogs were an issue in terms of Lyon's style.

However what Lovett has been criticised for, are the precise things which Lyon seems red hot on.


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Post: # 869635Post rodgerfox »

Moods wrote:
rodgerfox wrote:I still reckon Lovett was/is overrated.


And seriously, does anyone really think Ross Lyon would allow him to be the unaccountable shirker that he's been for his entire career?

Lyon didn't let Dal, Milne and Ball get away with it - why would he let Lovett?

I think it would have taken a guy like Lovett 2-3 seasons to learn how to play footy the way Lyon wants it.
In this respect I agree completely with Rodgerfox. However not sure it would take 2-3 years. Took Farren Ray virtually no time at all. That's what happens to some blokes when they realise it's make or break. But agree that Lovett is very overated by many on this forum. I'm just hoping we get a chance to find out!
It took a guy like Dal nearly 2 years.


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Post: # 869636Post Moods »

[quote="Maxstar22"]Just a curious question for the legal eagles/law enforcement forumites on here….

With regards “consentâ€


GrumpyOne

Post: # 869639Post GrumpyOne »

[quote="Moods"][quote="Maxstar22"]Just a curious question for the legal eagles/law enforcement forumites on here….

With regards “consentâ€


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Post: # 869642Post markp »

[quote="Moods"][quote="Maxstar22"]Just a curious question for the legal eagles/law enforcement forumites on here….

With regards “consentâ€


plugger66
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Post: # 869643Post plugger66 »

[quote="GrumpyOne"][quote="Moods"][quote="Maxstar22"]Just a curious question for the legal eagles/law enforcement forumites on here….

With regards “consentâ€


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