Lovett suspended

[Mr Magic]

How can we be 'heading backwards' when it's your contention that under Lyon's coaching we've never headed forwards?

Is it??

Anything else that I'm unaware of that you'd like to share with me?

Yes, with pleasure.

IMHO (do you know what those initials stand for?) the forum was a better place the last few weeks when you weren't actually posting much, just lurking in the shadows.

But it's just my opinion of course.

[rodgerfox]

How can we be 'heading backwards' when it's your contention that under Lyon's coaching we've never headed forwards?

Is it??

Anything else that I'm unaware of that you'd like to share with me?

Yes, with pleasure.

IMHO (do you know what those initials stand for?) the forum was a better place the last few weeks when you weren't actually posting much, just lurking in the shadows.

But it's just my opinion of course.

Great.

But any other insights into my opinions? Cause based on what you said earlier, you seem to be aware of opinions that I have, that I'm completely unaware of.

[Mr Magic]

How can we be 'heading backwards' when it's your contention that under Lyon's coaching we've never headed forwards?

Is it??

Anything else that I'm unaware of that you'd like to share with me?

Yes, with pleasure.

IMHO (do you know what those initials stand for?) the forum was a better place the last few weeks when you weren't actually posting much, just lurking in the shadows.

But it's just my opinion of course.

Great.

But any other insights into my opinions? Cause based on what you said earlier, you seem to be aware of opinions that I have, that I'm completely unaware of.

Yes,
but I'll answer your questions when you deign to answer all those questions asked of you.

This is a forum where debate/argument/exchange of ideas is encouraged.

Unfortunately you seem to consider it a 'plaything' for the enjoyment of your own massive ego and a vehicle where you can test your ability to manipulate others.

You have become, IMO, an insidious character on here and a disgrace.
Your disgusting posts towards another poster a few weeks back are testament to how low you've managed to stoop.

One would have thought that some time away from here would have allowed you some introspection into your behaviour.

Obviously not.

How about you go crawl back into those murky shadows you've been hiding in and let others debate/argue in peace without your infectious trolling?

[barks4eva]

Yes,
but I'll answer your questions when you deign to answer all those questions asked of you.

This is a forum where debate/argument/exchange of ideas is encouraged.

Unfortunately you seem to consider it a 'plaything' for the enjoyment of your own massive ego and a vehicle where you can test your ability to manipulate others.

You have become, IMO, an insidious character on here and a disgrace.
Your disgusting posts towards another poster a few weeks back are testament to how low you've managed to stoop.

One would have thought that some time away from here would have allowed you some introspection into your behaviour.

Obviously not.

How about you go crawl back into those murky shadows you've been hiding in and let others debate/argue in peace without your infectious trolling?

here here,

+1

[Richter]

Question - was it a good Idea to trade our first round DP for a 27yo bloke with real issues and baggage???
what it did is contadict why we chose not to go down the cousins path....(who BTW has never had a ? over his commitment to the game and was a superstar)....the reason was that we had to keep bring talent in at the bottom of the list and develop our own and not look for a quick fix??? funny thing is, we would have given up ZERO for BC and gave up a potential 12 year player for a tool - who can play some good footy...

As ever Marto some terrific points you bring up.

However, looking at the broader perspective this is the way I see it.

Out best chance of a premiership is while Nick Riewoldt is playing i.e. the next 3-5 years. Therefore we should be looking at players who can make a difference within that time frame. Any draft pick at 16 will be highly unlikely to make any impact on field for another 4-5 years minimumc.f. Andrew mcQualter. And whilst the likes of mini are handy players he's hardly irreplacable.

IMO Lovett ON FIELD could give us exactly what we lack. Pace, disposal and an eye for goal from the midfield. Hence, a risk worth taking. The alternative was to get a player from the draft in a down year - a minor chance of getting a gun, a likely chance of getting a GOP, a fair chance of getting a dud.

Top 10 dp would be a different story - but pick 16 in a down year = mpre like a mid 20s pick in any other year IMO.

[Dr Spaceman]

Question - was it a good Idea to trade our first round DP for a 27yo bloke with real issues and baggage???
what it did is contadict why we chose not to go down the cousins path....(who BTW has never had a ? over his commitment to the game and was a superstar)....the reason was that we had to keep bring talent in at the bottom of the list and develop our own and not look for a quick fix??? funny thing is, we would have given up ZERO for BC and gave up a potential 12 year player for a tool - who can play some good footy...

As ever Marto some terrific points you bring up.

However, looking at the broader perspective this is the way I see it.

Out best chance of a premiership is while Nick Riewoldt is playing i.e. the next 3-5 years. Therefore we should be looking at players who can make a difference within that time frame. Any draft pick at 16 will be highly unlikely to make any impact on field for another 4-5 years minimumc.f. Andrew mcQualter. And whilst the likes of mini are handy players he's hardly irreplacable.

IMO Lovett ON FIELD could give us exactly what we lack. Pace, disposal and an eye for goal from the midfield. Hence, a risk worth taking. The alternative was to get a player from the draft in a down year - a minor chance of getting a gun, a likely chance of getting a GOP, a fair chance of getting a dud.

Top 10 dp would be a different story - but pick 16 in a down year = mpre like a mid 20s pick in any other year IMO.

That's exactly how I see things although I'd go as far as to say the next 1-3 years as history shows dominant forwards suck as Nick, although still playing at 30 & beyond, are rarely as effective at that age.

So I was prepared to back the Lovett recruitment at the time and if, as it appears, it goes bad then I'm prepared to cop it.

[mbogo]

Given that Lovett is an off-field idiot of the highest order - by placing himself in a situation that could jeopardise his career - Lyon and our players must be f#cken livid. Maybe he should have had a 24hr minder!!!
However, the reason we picked him was for his on field capabilities - which are totally limitless on his day and I am sure we were all hoping that we could get him to play with consistency - while also taking out the opposition's fastest macth-up.
I hope he can get this opportunity!
As for all the RFox posts about us "going backwards" - I was wondering where we went backwards FROM in 2009 - I guess it must be 1966 - coz on that measure we went backwards - yeah

[JMsainter]

Being a "noob" around here, I won't get into personalities. However, it is fascinating to see how people use an unfortunate incident like this as a means to justify their 'I told ya so" views with the benefit of hindsight.

An interesting observation in human insecurities if nothing else.

[rodgerfox]

How can we be 'heading backwards' when it's your contention that under Lyon's coaching we've never headed forwards?

Is it??

Anything else that I'm unaware of that you'd like to share with me?

Yes, with pleasure.

IMHO (do you know what those initials stand for?) the forum was a better place the last few weeks when you weren't actually posting much, just lurking in the shadows.

But it's just my opinion of course.

Great.

But any other insights into my opinions? Cause based on what you said earlier, you seem to be aware of opinions that I have, that I'm completely unaware of.

Yes,
but I'll answer your questions when you deign to answer all those questions asked of you.

This is a forum where debate/argument/exchange of ideas is encouraged.

Unfortunately you seem to consider it a 'plaything' for the enjoyment of your own massive ego and a vehicle where you can test your ability to manipulate others.

You have become, IMO, an insidious character on here and a disgrace.
Your disgusting posts towards another poster a few weeks back are testament to how low you've managed to stoop.

One would have thought that some time away from here would have allowed you some introspection into your behaviour.

Obviously not.

How about you go crawl back into those murky shadows you've been hiding in and let others debate/argue in peace without your infectious trolling?

What the hell??

Care to elaborate on this bit...

"Your disgusting posts towards another poster a few weeks back are testament to how low you've managed to stoop."


I must have missed this.

[stinger]

Is it that hard to believe what I said 2 months ago (which I was howled down for) that Lovett was a F***ing moron.....or is it because we recruited him that people DON'T want to believe it....FFS

He is trouble.....will be trouble.....he always has been trouble..yes he can play a bit (his career is not that decorated) but his character is poor...

Question - was it a good Idea to trade our first round DP for a 27yo bloke with real issues and baggage???
what it did is contadict why we chose not to go down the cousins path....(who BTW has never had a ? over his commitment to the game and was a superstar)....the reason was that we had to keep bring talent in at the bottom of the list and develop our own and not look for a quick fix??? funny thing is, we would have given up ZERO for BC and gave up a potential 12 year player for a tool - who can play some good footy....

I would love to revisit the Ball/Clarke/Maguire vs Lovett and Co..debate.... call Ball what you want and X aswell.....but they were good people....the more good people in an organisation the better it performs.....inject a few rats and problems arise....

When you let go people of that ilk and bring in damaged goods - expect trouble.....

Watch the 3 I mentioned at their new clubs in 2010....and then make comment.... because all I can see is,

Jolly to BALL to Pendlebury to Davis/Didak and Goal
or
Clarke to Black to Power/Johnston to X to Brown/Fev and another Goal

whilst we have a suspended Idiot on our list...

BTW - Hope Lenny holds up, because a 16 game Number 1 inside mid is a worry....

good post...a valid point of view.....as usual

[Dr Spaceman]

Is it that hard to believe what I said 2 months ago (which I was howled down for) that Lovett was a F***ing moron.....or is it because we recruited him that people DON'T want to believe it....FFS

He is trouble.....will be trouble.....he always has been trouble..yes he can play a bit (his career is not that decorated) but his character is poor...

Question - was it a good Idea to trade our first round DP for a 27yo bloke with real issues and baggage???
what it did is contadict why we chose not to go down the cousins path....(who BTW has never had a ? over his commitment to the game and was a superstar)....the reason was that we had to keep bring talent in at the bottom of the list and develop our own and not look for a quick fix??? funny thing is, we would have given up ZERO for BC and gave up a potential 12 year player for a tool - who can play some good footy....

I would love to revisit the Ball/Clarke/Maguire vs Lovett and Co..debate.... call Ball what you want and X aswell.....but they were good people....the more good people in an organisation the better it performs.....inject a few rats and problems arise....

When you let go people of that ilk and bring in damaged goods - expect trouble.....

Watch the 3 I mentioned at their new clubs in 2010....and then make comment.... because all I can see is,

Jolly to BALL to Pendlebury to Davis/Didak and Goal
or
Clarke to Black to Power/Johnston to X to Brown/Fev and another Goal

whilst we have a suspended Idiot on our list...

BTW - Hope Lenny holds up, because a 16 game Number 1 inside mid is a worry....

Presume Ball to Pendlebury is by hand

[CeilidhSaint]

Big Mart you know your stuff but our three ex-players whilst top blokes were/are injury prone and weren't exactly cutting it up in the last three years.
Delisting/trading/losing them also frees others up to stay - guys younger who may perform in the long term - this isn't just about Lovett.
Nice guys don't always finish first.

[Mr Magic]

How can we be 'heading backwards' when it's your contention that under Lyon's coaching we've never headed forwards?

Is it??

Anything else that I'm unaware of that you'd like to share with me?

Yes, with pleasure.

IMHO (do you know what those initials stand for?) the forum was a better place the last few weeks when you weren't actually posting much, just lurking in the shadows.

But it's just my opinion of course.

Great.

But any other insights into my opinions? Cause based on what you said earlier, you seem to be aware of opinions that I have, that I'm completely unaware of.

Yes,
but I'll answer your questions when you deign to answer all those questions asked of you.

This is a forum where debate/argument/exchange of ideas is encouraged.

Unfortunately you seem to consider it a 'plaything' for the enjoyment of your own massive ego and a vehicle where you can test your ability to manipulate others.

You have become, IMO, an insidious character on here and a disgrace.
Your disgusting posts towards another poster a few weeks back are testament to how low you've managed to stoop.

One would have thought that some time away from here would have allowed you some introspection into your behaviour.

Obviously not.

How about you go crawl back into those murky shadows you've been hiding in and let others debate/argue in peace without your infectious trolling?

What the hell??

Care to elaborate on this bit...

"Your disgusting posts towards another poster a few weeks back are testament to how low you've managed to stoop."


I must have missed this.

If you think I'll repeat the disgraceful posts you made to justify my comments then you are an even bigger knob than I originally thought.

You know very well what you posted and to feign mock indignation/puzzlement confirms what an absolute tool you are.

IMO whatever credits you earned over the years have quickly dissipated over the last month or so.

IMO, you have become the saintsational.com disgrace.

[Saint_in_SA]

These are the facts about Goose, Bally and X.

Goose has been ravaged by his leg injury and will never be the same player again - the game has past him, he is too slow for AFL footy. That is why he played for Sandringham this year.

Bally is a great tackler, a terrible runner and has zero penetration in his kicking.

X was so injury prone and with his body type, he can never be relied upon to perform week in week out.

So picking up Peake and Lovett were acceptable risks IMHO in a compromised draft as they have pace and can stretch the opposition. Lovett was also picked up as it was seen that young Walsh was as good as a first rounder anyway - the proof willl be there for all to see in a couple of years on that score.

Pattison is a waste of time, but at pick 64 in that draft, there was bugger all else to go for.

I fear that Jesse Smith will be battling injury wise but again at pick 60, worth a crack.

[Richter]

This is a forum where debate/argument/exchange of ideas is encouraged.

Unfortunately you seem to consider it a 'plaything' for the enjoyment of your own massive ego and a vehicle where you can test your ability to manipulate others.

You have become, IMO, an insidious character on here and a disgrace.
Your disgusting posts towards another poster a few weeks back are testament to how low you've managed to stoop.

One would have thought that some time away from here would have allowed you some introspection into your behaviour.

Obviously not.

How about you go crawl back into those murky shadows you've been hiding in and let others debate/argue in peace without your infectious trolling?

What the hell??

Care to elaborate on this bit...

"Your disgusting posts towards another poster a few weeks back are testament to how low you've managed to stoop."


I must have missed this.

Just in case any else is wondering. 28th Nov. page 6 of the "What's with all the soft porn in people's avatars" thread. I won't repeat it either.

Pretty low stuff.

[markp]

Section One – General posting behaviour

1a. No posting in a disrespectful, defamatory, harassing, offensive, adversarial, baiting, offensive, sarcastic or otherwise insulting or demeaning manner. Excessive baiting and sarcasm are particularly prohibited.

I think these rules should either be enforced or removed.

RF is a malicious troll, and that is all.

Half the carlscum trolls show more respect than him...

Time to flush the stool.

[Milton66]

OMFG!

Did he at least have the decency to apologise?

Pathetic Rodger, absolutely pathetic... even by your standards.

How can you seriously show your face around here?

Have you no self-respect?

[Quixote]

You're all complete,

Liars!

[meher baba]

I have now read what rf posted on that thread as well. It read like fairly standard sort of abuse for this place: a bit unusual for rf, who not typically an abuser, but more of the sort of guy who hides behind a car and surreptitiously throws rocks at passing strangers.

Was rf aware that Milan was fighting the big C at the time and was a bit sensitive to insults? It doesn't seem so.

Should he have apologised to Milan? I would have done so, but this is an anonymous forum and I'm not sure it's obligatory.

Nobody has ever apologised to me for any of the frequent abuse I get on here. Nor would I have expected them to: it's an internet forum.

I'm sick to death of all this endless harping on about wanting other posters banned, accusing people of being trolls, etc. As I have stated on another thread, this is not about trying to rid the forum of posters who create trouble, it's more about bullying people who don't conform to certain unwritten rules which apply on this forum.

Some of those going on all the time about the need to ban rf, stinger, etc should firstly have a good hard look at themselves and what they post.

[Mr Magic]

I have now read what rf posted on that thread as well. It read like fairly standard sort of abuse for this place: a bit unusual for rf, who not typically an abuser,
I disagree, I thought it was a blatant personal insulting attack

but more of the sort of guy who hides behind a car and surreptitiously throws rocks at passing strangers.

And that is acceptable?

Was rf aware that Milan was fighting the big C at the time and was a bit sensitive to insults? It doesn't seem so. So that makes it acceptable?

Should he have apologised to Milan? I would have done so, but this is an anonymous forum and I'm not sure it's obligatory.

Maybe not obligatory but where/how I was raised it would not even have been a question. At the very least a public apology was required, IMO.


Nobody has ever apologised to me for any of the frequent abuse I get on here. Nor would I have expected them to: it's an internet forum.

Well you and I differ on that - if I'm wrong I believe an apology is required.

I'm sick to death of all this endless harping on about wanting other posters banned, accusing people of being trolls, etc. As I have stated on another thread, this is not about trying to rid the forum of posters who create trouble, it's more about bullying people who don't conform to certain unwritten rules which apply on this forum.

I don't speak for anybody other than myself, and I've never asked for any regular poster to be banned, but I'm sick to death of the antics of this particular poster whose sole ambition (IMO) is to start flame wars on here.
He deliberately posts blatant baits and relies on posters like you to defend his 'rights'. He uses posters like you to allow him to continue on his merry way.
Truth be told he probably relies on posters like you to defend his errant posting behaviour so that he can continue causing as much mayhem as possible.



Some of those going on all the time about the need to ban rf, stinger, etc should firstly have a good hard look at themselves and what they post.

I'm staggered you feel the moral outrage to castigate other posters responding to him but are jumping to defend rodgerfox's 'rights'.


MB, you and I have pretty differing views on much about football but we're capable of debating issues without ending up in conflict.
Maybe I'm wrong but I believe that if there is mutual respect than debates/arguments can be held without acrimony.
Unfortunately that cannot happen when 1 party to the debate/argument seems intent on nothing more than manipulation of others and inflaming the situation until it eventually reaches his desired conclusion.
Have a look at how many normally rational posters get involved in derogatory comments once he gets involved in a thread.
IMO, it's not an accident.

[saintly]

These are the facts about Goose, Bally and X.

Goose has been ravaged by his leg injury and will never be the same player again - the game has past him, he is too slow for AFL footy. That is why he played for Sandringham this year.

Bally is a great tackler, a terrible runner and has zero penetration in his kicking.

X was so injury prone and with his body type, he can never be relied upon to perform week in week out.
So picking up Peake and Lovett were acceptable risks IMHO in a compromised draft as they have pace and can stretch the opposition. Lovett was also picked up as it was seen that young Walsh was as good as a first rounder anyway - the proof willl be there for all to see in a couple of years on that score.

Pattison is a waste of time, but at pick 64 in that draft, there was bugger all else to go for.

I fear that Jesse Smith will be battling injury wise but again at pick 60, worth a crack.

regarding the above three:

Brisbane did pick up maguire for a reason - what happens if after the rod was taken out of his leg he becoems the palyer that he used to be?

X stops getting injured

and Ball learns to kick gals form the mid field.

how will we all feel then?

[plugger66]

I have now read what rf posted on that thread as well. It read like fairly standard sort of abuse for this place: a bit unusual for rf, who not typically an abuser, but more of the sort of guy who hides behind a car and surreptitiously throws rocks at passing strangers.

Was rf aware that Milan was fighting the big C at the time and was a bit sensitive to insults? It doesn't seem so.

Should he have apologised to Milan? I would have done so, but this is an anonymous forum and I'm not sure it's obligatory.

Nobody has ever apologised to me for any of the frequent abuse I get on here. Nor would I have expected them to: it's an internet forum.

I'm sick to death of all this endless harping on about wanting other posters banned, accusing people of being trolls, etc. As I have stated on another thread, this is not about trying to rid the forum of posters who create trouble, it's more about bullying people who don't conform to certain unwritten rules which apply on this forum.

Some of those going on all the time about the need to ban rf, stinger, etc should firstly have a good hard look at themselves and what they post.

I must agree with you on the banning bit. It is an internet forum and we can choose to read RF or not or even log on. if he is your face at the footy we dont have that choose. RF is becoming more painful every day but why would we care. dont read it. plenty say they dont read what I write and even though I dont beleive them because of the abuse i can get, I couldnt care less. The same with Stinger. A pain and ill tempered man in my eyes but why care. just skip over it and go to the next if it worries you. Me, I think it is all in good fun even some of the abuse i cop.

[markp]

I have now read what rf posted on that thread as well. It read like fairly standard sort of abuse for this place: a bit unusual for rf, who not typically an abuser,
I disagree, I thought it was a blatant personal insulting attack

but more of the sort of guy who hides behind a car and surreptitiously throws rocks at passing strangers.

And that is acceptable?

Was rf aware that Milan was fighting the big C at the time and was a bit sensitive to insults? It doesn't seem so. So that makes it acceptable?

Should he have apologised to Milan? I would have done so, but this is an anonymous forum and I'm not sure it's obligatory.

Maybe not obligatory but where/how I was raised it would not even have been a question. At the very least a public apology was required, IMO.


Nobody has ever apologised to me for any of the frequent abuse I get on here. Nor would I have expected them to: it's an internet forum.

Well you and I differ on that - if I'm wrong I believe an apology is required.

I'm sick to death of all this endless harping on about wanting other posters banned, accusing people of being trolls, etc. As I have stated on another thread, this is not about trying to rid the forum of posters who create trouble, it's more about bullying people who don't conform to certain unwritten rules which apply on this forum.

I don't speak for anybody other than myself, and I've never asked for any regular poster to be banned, but I'm sick to death of the antics of this particular poster whose sole ambition (IMO) is to start flame wars on here.
He deliberately posts blatant baits and relies on posters like you to defend his 'rights'. He uses posters like you to allow him to continue on his merry way.
Truth be told he probably relies on posters like you to defend his errant posting behaviour so that he can continue causing as much mayhem as possible.



Some of those going on all the time about the need to ban rf, stinger, etc should firstly have a good hard look at themselves and what they post.

I'm staggered you feel the moral outrage to castigate other posters responding to him but are jumping to defend rodgerfox's 'rights'.


MB, you and I have pretty differing views on much about football but we're capable of debating issues without ending up in conflict.
Maybe I'm wrong but I believe that if there is mutual respect than debates/arguments can be held without acrimony.
Unfortunately that cannot happen when 1 party to the debate/argument seems intent on nothing more than manipulation of others and inflaming the situation until it eventually reaches his desired conclusion.
Have a look at how many normally rational posters get involved in derogatory comments once he gets involved in a thread.
IMO, it's not an accident.

Perfectly put... as usual MM is a beacon of reason and decency, and an asset to the site.

Of course trolls should be banned.

[joffaboy]

I must agree with you on the banning bit. It is an internet forum and we can choose to read RF or not or even log on.

correct - dont feed the troll

if he is your face at the footy we dont have that choose. RF is becoming more painful every day but why would we care. dont read it.

hard not to read it - just dont respond

The same with Stinger. A pain and ill tempered man in my eyes but why care. just skip over it and go to the next if it worries you. Me, I think it is all in good fun even some of the abuse i cop.

You are so correct about ill temperedand personally I just dont read the hate filled diatribes. However the likes of him and rf who are intent on jacking threads and starting flame wars should be dealt with immediately.

Look I have plenty of arguments with you, and mb, and others, and in the past probably a bit too abusive, however nowdays the difference of opinion is just that, these others are intent on destruction and disruption, thats the big difference.

[stinger]

These are the facts about Goose, Bally and X.

Goose has been ravaged by his leg injury and will never be the same player again - the game has past him, he is too slow for AFL footy. That is why he played for Sandringham this year.

Bally is a great tackler, a terrible runner and has zero penetration in his kicking.

X was so injury prone and with his body type, he can never be relied upon to perform week in week out.
So picking up Peake and Lovett were acceptable risks IMHO in a compromised draft as they have pace and can stretch the opposition. Lovett was also picked up as it was seen that young Walsh was as good as a first rounder anyway - the proof willl be there for all to see in a couple of years on that score.

Pattison is a waste of time, but at pick 64 in that draft, there was bugger all else to go for.

I fear that Jesse Smith will be battling injury wise but again at pick 60, worth a crack.

regarding the above three:

Brisbane did pick up maguire for a reason - what happens if after the rod was taken out of his leg he becoems the palyer that he used to be?

X stops getting injured

and Ball learns to kick gals form the mid field.

how will we all feel then?

pretty much how i feel now.....devestated.....we get rid of quality players...for what.....????....i know the jury's still out....hasn't even be picked...but how are we going to feel to have the first current afl player gaoled since big nick.......??