Don't blame Lyon

[barks4eva]

...there are some moronic supporters of our club...

How flowering right you are........ only had to hear the flowering, spewed out drivel........ emanating from the clueless flowering drinkers of the poisoned flowering cordial, the easily conned, the hoodwinked harbingers of hum bug and snake oil routines, the small dick, string and a brick crew........ who deified a despot, machiavellian maestro, ........YES, I'm talking about ALL of YOU people, ALL of YOU........ who cracked flowering missy hissy fits like flowering two bob watches........ as though the sky had just flowered and fallen in leaving a belief cloud looking like a flowering mushroom,........ when their/YOUR Grant "fitness and conditioning staff are overrated " Thomas ( who must have left his tactics in some locker room ),was exited OUT as opposed to being exited IN, via flowering self appointment.........YES, I very much know what you're flowering on about!

[matrix]

ALL???

i think not

[saintspremiers]

Merry Xmas and I hope you are all enjoying the biggest Saints news story of the off season!

I have been told that Aboriginals can't handle alcohol as well as Caucasions due to their body composition.

Is this true or a myth???

[saintspremiers]

...there are some moronic supporters of our club...

How flowering right you are........ only had to hear the flowering, spewed out drivel........ emanating from the clueless flowering drinkers of the poisoned flowering cordial, the easily conned, the hoodwinked harbingers of hum bug and snake oil routines, the small dick, string and a brick crew........ who deified a despot, machiavellian maestro, ........YES, I'm talking about ALL of YOU people, ALL of YOU........ who cracked flowering missy hissy fits like flowering two bob watches........ as though the sky had just flowered and fallen in leaving a belief cloud looking like a flowering mushroom,........ when their/YOUR Grant "fitness and conditioning staff are overrated " Thomas ( who must have left his tactics in some locker room ),was exited OUT as opposed to being exited IN, via flowering self appointment.........YES, I very much know what you're flowering on about!

barks, for someone who drinks OJ and water, you have very colourful Xmas language

[Milton66]

The Luke Ball trade has nothing to do with this... nothing. We played hard ball because we wanted to trade on our terms. Collingwood did NOT offer what we wanted.

Yet, had we traded and ended up with some dud from the filth... everyone would have been up in arms.

And IIRC, many on here reckon Luke was a hck anyway. So what's the big deal?

Yes, so far it appears an error was made, and I have no doubt Lyon will accept his share of the blame for it... without any snake oil salesman spin.

It's almost as if people are willing for Lovett to be found guilty, so they have a reason to bag Lyon.

Do yourselves a favour, peeps...

Grab a piece of paper and draw a line down the centre. Then on the left side, write down all of the achievements and Lyon, and on the opposite side, write down the stuff ups.

Then get some farking perspective.

Until this is cleared up one way or another, judgement cannot be objectively passed IMO.

And just as a matter of curiosity...

Can the elder statesmen of this forum kindly fill me in with the reaction to the Milne Monty situation?

Were they treated with the same backlash?

Or is it different because Lovett hasn't played for us?

Just curious.

[stinger]

Jesus stinger if you're a bloody lawyer surely you know you can't make those kind of a allegations on an internet forum. Or because you said allegedly it's OK?

yep.... that information came out in a court case...widely reported......but to be on the safe side i said allegedly....

. there is nothing i said that wasn't reported in the newspapers at the time or reproduced in the last 24 hours.....having said that...i'm in favour of backing off on the latest allegations until he is convicted of something....

[stinger]

...there are some moronic supporters of our club...

How flowering right you are........ only had to hear the flowering, spewed out drivel........ emanating from the clueless flowering drinkers of the poisoned flowering cordial, the easily conned, the hoodwinked harbingers of hum bug and snake oil routines, the small dick, string and a brick crew........ who deified a despot, machiavellian maestro, ........YES, I'm talking about ALL of YOU people, ALL of YOU........ who cracked flowering missy hissy fits like flowering two bob watches........ as though the sky had just flowered and fallen in leaving a belief cloud looking like a flowering mushroom,........ when their/YOUR Grant "fitness and conditioning staff are overrated " Thomas ( who must have left his tactics in some locker room ),was exited OUT as opposed to being exited IN, via flowering self appointment.........YES, I very much know what you're flowering on about!

love you too mate.... ...merry christmas andrew.....

[plugger66]

There are some on here who wouldnt blame RL what ever he did and there are others who would blame him if we got Judd but surely he has some responsibilty for this decision and at the moment he is losing on that one decision. If he did well getting MG and schneids surely he has done poorly getting Lovett.

[groupie1]

In this case, if the reports are to be believed, the Club went to great lengths to talk to the people who had been involved with Lovett previously and they overwhelmingly said he was worth the chance.
John Quinn (he's spoken about it publicly on SEN)
Kevin Sheedy
James Hird
amongst others.

Were they all wrong?
Did they all conspire on behalf of Lovett and/or the Essendon Football Club?

Clubs make decisions about the 'character' of players all the time. Sometimes they get it wrong.
Most times they get it correct.

Agreed.

Ross Lyon, Michael Nettlefold, Matthew Drain, John Quinn, Kevin Sheedy & James Hird are all professional, intelligent people. I would suspect that ALL of these professionals would have many different feelings about this situation; Anger, sadness, guilt, betrayal etc, etc. I could not even begin to believe that any of these people would be sniggering about this situation, as suggested in another thread !!

Well, Kevin Sheedy and James Hird are not intelligent people, unless you're lowering the bar so low anyone can be, but I take your point.

[Milan Faletic]

IF Lovett did commit this crime it is no way RL's fault.

Lovett is a grown man and can make his own decisions. RL is his coach and boss if you like. Does your boss have to take the wrap if he hires you and you do the same type of thing - no.

Hindsight is a wonderful thing but this blaming of RL is absolute crap!

Who is saying it's his fault?

[JMsainter]

Ultimately, the buck stops with the footy department and Admin for recruiting Lovett.

I have no doubt that Ross will be feeling rightly dissapointed and embarrassed by what has gone on. Apart from venting one's spleen, what purpose does it serve to lash out at certain people within the club?

Do we want Lyon sacked?

Lovett had obviously said all the right things when the trade was under way, so I guess you can only go by what's on the table at the time.

I remember the club saying that once they recruited Walsh, they were happy to trade for Lovett because they considered Walsh a 1st round pick.

Time will tell if this is correct or not.

Pointing fingers and shooting first, ask questions later doesn't help in these situations. Let's wait until we see all of the fact.

JM

[Saint Bev]

Merry Xmas and I hope you are all enjoying the biggest Saints news story of the off season!

I have been told that Aboriginals can't handle alcohol as well as Caucasions due to their body composition.

Is this true or a myth???

I have heard this before, they are the only indiginous race that never had alchol as part of their culture. White man introduced it to them.

[Milton66]

Ultimately, the buck stops with the footy department and Admin for recruiting Lovett.

I have no doubt that Ross will be feeling rightly dissapointed and embarrassed by what has gone on. Apart from venting one's spleen, what purpose does it serve to lash out at certain people within the club?

Do we want Lyon sacked?

Lovett had obviously said all the right things when the trade was under way, so I guess you can only go by what's on the table at the time.

I remember the club saying that once they recruited Walsh, they were happy to trade for Lovett because they considered Walsh a 1st round pick.

Time will tell if this is correct or not.

Pointing fingers and shooting first, ask questions later doesn't help in these situations. Let's wait until we see all of the fact.

JM

Yeah, you're on the money JM. People need a scapegoat for their frustrations, I guess.

[kosifantutti23]

Merry Xmas and I hope you are all enjoying the biggest Saints news story of the off season!

I have been told that Aboriginals can't handle alcohol as well as Caucasions due to their body composition.

Is this true or a myth???

I have heard this before, they are the only indiginous race that never had alchol as part of their culture. White man introduced it to them.

Andrew Lovett is alleged to have been involved in a very serious incident. What has being an Aboriginal got to do with it?

[milney044]

Ross Lyon did recruit Lovett yes, so lets all shoot him down because he can't see into the future.
Lovett is the fool and fool alone here.
If there is one person we should be blaming here, it is Lovett.
At different environments players can change. We thought we could do to Lovett what we did to Gardiner. It looks like we were wrong. Lets just be thankful the guy did his disgracing before he actually put on the jumper.

In saying this, this is of course if the allegations are true. But truth be told i am mighty pissed off that he chose to get himself into this situation in the first place.
If Lovett was to come to our club IMO it had to be on a strict 0 alcohol basis. The guy needs a constant minder, we basically DO have to act like baby sitters.
Unfortunately Lovett is the exact type of player we are after. The speed, the x factor, the goal kicking ability. I would have taken the punt on him too, he could be the difference to winning or losing on that last Saturday in September. For me that is worth the gamble. I for one am pissed off at him and him only for disrespecting that opportunity.
If there's one thing the guy doesn't appear to have been taught, it's respect in many aspects.

[asiu]

What has being an Aboriginal got to do with it?

shame

If distress is the affect of suffering, shame is the affect of indignity, transgression and of alienation. Though terror speaks to life and death and distress makes of the world a vale of tears, yet shame strikes deepest into the heart of man.... shame is felt as inner torment, a sickness of the soul....the humiliated one feels himself naked, defeated, alienated, lacking in dignity and worth."

[asiu]

.....argued that shame really represents an entire family of emotions. This family includes: humiliation, embarrassment, feelings of low self-esteem, belittlement, and stigmatization. Shame is often a central ingredient in experiences of being

...and we haven't even touched on the (new) cultural causes

[matrix]

[asiu]

Shame is often experienced as the inner, critical voice that judges whatever we do as wrong, inferior, or worthless. Often this inner critical voice is repeating what was said to us by our parents, relatives, teachers and peers. We may have been told that we were naughty, selfish, ugly, stupid, etc. We may have been ostracized by peers at school, humiliated by teachers, treated with contempt by our parents. Paradoxically, shame may be caused by others expecting too much of us, evoking criticism when our performance is less than perfect. Some authority figures are never satisfied with one's efforts or performance, they are critical no matter what. Unfortunately, these criticisms become internalized, so that it is our own inner critical voice that is meting out the shaming messages, such as: "You idiot, why did you do that?," "Can't you do anything right?,"or " You should be ashamed of yourself," etc.

[rodgerfox]

Blaming RL is like blaming my boss when I f**k up.

Noone else to blame but yourself.

when people i hired f***ed up.....i didn't blame myself for their indiscretions....but i blamed myself for not seeing what dipshits they were in the first place.....in this case everyone knew he had form....

...draw your own conclusions....

In this case, if the reports are to be believed, the Club went to great lengths to talk to the people who had been involved with Lovett previously and they overwhelmingly said he was worth the chance.
John Quinn (he's spoken about it publicly on SEN)
Kevin Sheedy
James Hird
amongst others.

Were they all wrong?
Did they all conspire on behalf of Lovett and/or the Essendon Football Club?

Clubs make decisions about the 'character' of players all the time. Sometimes they get it wrong.
Most times they get it correct.

No - they were just most likely basing their views on the leadership ability of our football department and coach.

Quite clearly they were wrong.

[fugazi]

Must be very dissapointed in the character references we received from Essendon (add Lloyd to that list also).

At least it has happened in pre-season...this would destroy our flag hope if it happened in Rnd 7. We can get rid of him and move on...StKilda cannot shoulder any responsibility for this idiots action.

Must say, it was a bit of an acute counterpoint to see a photo of Luke Ball visiting those kids in hospital on the same day as Lovett was allegedly doing what he allegedly did.

Trading good character for bad rarely works.

[SydneySainter]

Must be very dissapointed in the character references we received from Essendon (add Lloyd to that list also).

At least it has happened in pre-season...this would destroy our flag hope if it happened in Rnd 7. We can get rid of him and move on...StKilda cannot shoulder any responsibility for this idiots action.

Must say, it was a bit of an acute counterpoint to see a photo of Luke Ball visiting those kids in hospital on the same day as Lovett was allegedly doing what he allegedly did.

Trading good character for bad rarely works.

That's why it's called a risk.

[Spinner]

Blaming RL is like blaming my boss when I f**k up.

Noone else to blame but yourself.

when people i hired f***ed up.....i didn't blame myself for their indiscretions....but i blamed myself for not seeing what dipshits they were in the first place.....in this case everyone knew he had form....

...draw your own conclusions....

In this case, if the reports are to be believed, the Club went to great lengths to talk to the people who had been involved with Lovett previously and they overwhelmingly said he was worth the chance.
John Quinn (he's spoken about it publicly on SEN)
Kevin Sheedy
James Hird
amongst others.

Were they all wrong?
Did they all conspire on behalf of Lovett and/or the Essendon Football Club?

Clubs make decisions about the 'character' of players all the time. Sometimes they get it wrong.
Most times they get it correct.

No - they were just most likely basing their views on the leadership ability of our football department and coach.

Quite clearly they were wrong.

Quite humorous - Judging the abilities of a football club and coach on a series of training sessions.

Some blame Lyon for recruiting Lovett....You go beyond and blame Lovett's indiscretion on the inabilities of our coaching department.

Your views are sad.

[joffaboy]

There are some on here who wouldnt blame RL what ever he did and there are others who would blame him if we got Judd but surely he has some responsibilty for this decision and at the moment he is losing on that one decision. If he did well getting MG and schneids surely he has done poorly getting Lovett.

Exactly my point.

Lyon is still on the right side of the ledger regarding recruits, however this season he has recruited a player now indefinately suspended from the club for #16 and Like Ball for zip.

At the moment it looks like an inauspicious recruiting year, however in August 2010 we may have had Brett Peake ripping it up, or Tommy Walsh exceeding all expectations, or Jesse Smith playing seniors, or even an innocent Andrew Lovett playing.

At the moment it looks like Lyon has to take responsibility for the two negatives, if any of the above happens he can accept the credit, as he has done from many here for players like Zac and Jones and Fahren Ray and Schneider, all excellent recruits.

RL knows that this is the case.

[joffaboy]

Blaming RL is like blaming my boss when I f**k up.

Noone else to blame but yourself.

when people i hired f***ed up.....i didn't blame myself for their indiscretions....but i blamed myself for not seeing what dipshits they were in the first place.....in this case everyone knew he had form....

...draw your own conclusions....

In this case, if the reports are to be believed, the Club went to great lengths to talk to the people who had been involved with Lovett previously and they overwhelmingly said he was worth the chance.
John Quinn (he's spoken about it publicly on SEN)
Kevin Sheedy
James Hird
amongst others.

Were they all wrong?
Did they all conspire on behalf of Lovett and/or the Essendon Football Club?

Clubs make decisions about the 'character' of players all the time. Sometimes they get it wrong.
Most times they get it correct.

No - they were just most likely basing their views on the leadership ability of our football department and coach.

Quite clearly they were wrong.

Quite humorous - Judging the abilities of a football club and coach on a series of training sessions.

Some blame Lyon for recruiting Lovett....You go beyond and blame Lovett's indiscretion on the inabilities of our coaching department.

Your views are sad.

Spinner, dont feed the troll.