Lovett suspended

[I Love Peter Kiel]

I think we should be very careful about jumping to conclusions here. Was talking to an Essendon supporter earlier tonight who said about Andrew: "I'm glad we got rid of the scumbag". Having read some of these posts, it sounds like Lovett was out drinking with some old Essendon team mates!

The alleged crime is unforgivable, but at the moment it is just that: alleged. I remember the term 'sex%al assa^lt was thrown around after the Joey and Milney incident and the facts turned out to be quite different.

[matrix]

I suppose the people that want Lovett sacked also hate Raph, i can see the common denomenator here

what are you saying
are you accusing people of being racist?????????

another thread ruined

[walski]

2. Things seem to have changed at the club since Butters/GT/Waldron moved on. When Milne and Joey were accused, we stood behind them. Now, before Lovett has even been charged with anything, we call a presser and hang him out to dry.

I think its being dealt with far better by the current board then past scandals around the club here is why:

1) The club is greater then one individual and should be protected. sponsors backers etc etc
2) Sweeping it under the carpet and slapping players on wrists (eg Plugger - Spider) creates a attitude that the players are untouchable thus pont one again.

Finally hopefully the old st kilda wont come back and bite us on the ass. Past 5 years we have come so far off the field.

[BringBackMadDog]

Geez, I love reading these threads, isn't it funny how, when something like this occurs half of the posters on here suddenly become Queens Councils whilst the other half become the moral police!!

Everyone is jumping to conclusions when there are bugger all facts presented. We know very little and are relying on a whole lot of scuttlebutt, we were quick to support Joey and Milney but are willing to cut Lovett off at the knees. Why? because "he has form".

I love the argument that even though someone is proven innocent in court doesn't mean that they didn't do it. Fantastic, so you people must be the ones that still scream out rapist every time Joey or Milne touch the ball.

IF Lovett is charged, tried and proven guilty then he will be sacked.
IF he isn't then he should be free to play.

[plugger66]

Gee people forget quickly, 2 months ago he was the best thing and best trade we have ever had.

He has a 3 year contract with no get out clauses, what is the point of sacking him if he is proven innocent? We still have to pay him out, we may as well see what else happens.

Now before you all say , but he is a cancer he is wrecking our culture, we wont win this going on behind doors... In 2004 with Milne and Joey we won the first 10 of the year straight after it had happened... this wont do anything to the culturte of the club

I suppose the people that want Lovett sacked also hate Raph, i can see the common denomenator here

You can play dumb but that last para is clearly stating that you think the reason some are having a go at Lovett is because they are aboriginal and I find that a disgrace. If you have nothing further to add then please just shut up because that sort of talk is pathetic.

[plugger66]

Geez, I love reading these threads, isn't it funny how, when something like this occurs half of the posters on here suddenly become Queens Councils whilst the other half become the moral police!!

Everyone is jumping to conclusions when there are bugger all facts presented. We know very little and are relying on a whole lot of scuttlebutt, we were quick to support Joey and Milney but are willing to cut Lovett off at the knees. Why? because "he has form".

I love the argument that even though someone is proven innocent in court doesn't mean that they didn't do it. Fantastic, so you people must be the ones that still scream out rapist every time Joey or Milne touch the ball.

IF Lovett is charged, tried and proven guilty then he will be sacked.
IF he isn't then he should be free to play.

So gain on that basis you would be happy with someone like OJ playing because he was found not guily. The form part is important because he just cannot have been that unlucky over the years and makes it a totally different case to Joey and Milney.

[Maxstar22]

I know we are all shocked and disapointed but making sweeping generalised comments will do noone any good.

It's Christmas, let's all take a big deep breath, get off this forum and go enjoy the day with our family and friends. We cannot do anything about it, so why keep going backwards and forwards, fighting with each other.

[Moods]

In the Herald Sun of November 26 (Page 32) there is a heading "Rugby league Test star cleared of glassing girlfriend. It was self defence". The quashing of a conviction carrying a 16 month jail sentence against Greg Bird was reported in that article.

Do you actually believe that Bird was innocent To The Top? You appear way too intelligent to actually believe that?

Do you believe that OJ was innocent as well?

You brought up the case of the bloke in Geelong with his murdered sons. Is there a re-trial b/c the verdict was injust, or b/c a witness turns out to be unreliable and it was deemed that the original trial wasn't completely fair? Does that make this man innocent? Have you actually read the evidence? Everyone involved in the justice system knows that it is heavily slanted in favour of the defendant. Much better to have a guilty man walk free than to have an innocent man (or woman) found guilty. I'm fine with that, but I'm not naive enough to believe that this means there are not literally 100's of guilty men/women walking around who were guilty.

Are you a defence barrister who justifies ppl's actions by a crt's verdict, or do you actually think for yourself and know right from wrong w/o waiting for a court to tell you?

I hope to hell that whatever has been alleged against Lovett turns out to be false for the sake of our footy club and Lovett himself. Strange how Lenny or Rooey of Fish or Gilbo never find themselves in these situations though isn't it? Always seems to be the same players from each club that are desperately unlucky.

[HarveysDeciple]

Considering I broke the news on here first hours before it came out with the following:

Posted: Thu 24 Dec 2009 10:52am Post subject: Some very bad news on the way I believe today
I am not going to say what it is, but all I can say is I strongly doubt one of our star new recruits will ever play for us.


Can you unlock this post now please?

Also, just to let you know, Lovett was with 3 Essendon Aboriginal players last night, no St.Kilda players were present.

Why would we unlock it, so we can discuss what we are discussing here, in there?

And you posted a rumour, without stating what it was about, or who was involved.

Pointless thread because you affectively said nothing.

Either post what you know, or don't post.

So on that basis any post that says something along the lines of "big news at the club today to be announced. Can't say too much yet" will be locked and the person told to effectively shut up?

Are you serious?

This person was right on the money but obviously couldn't say anything more. But within a couple of hours was proven correct.

The original decision to lock his OP was premature.

That is precisely why I come to Saintsational...to find out first what is going on. If you are going to lock posts and lecture the poster that say what ashjam said, then I believe you are on the wrong track.

IMO.

Merry Christmas to all Sainters. Terribly disappointed with Andrew Lovett. The truth will out in the fullness of time. Let's not forget the alleged victim in all of this.

Good news and bad news are completely different things.

I see your point, but bad news is news that if incorrect, could have ramifications for the club/forum.

Good news won't have those consequences.

Also, the post said nothing....didn't reveal what about, or who. Was pointless. If they believed they had news, then reveal it, if they don't want to say it, then........don't say it at all.

A thread, "something will happen today..........somewhere in the world" means nothing.

Yes they were accurate in saying bad news was coming, but if they weren't????

[Dis Believer]

These allegations are shown to be false in the very great majority of cases, if not in all cases.

It is the same with allegations of domestic violence.

It is these exact statements that makes it very hard for women to report abuse and most of it goes unreported.

As a matter of fact, I can attest that, at one time, 75% of cases in the FCA saw accusations of child abuse levelled at fathers as a tactic, and one suggested by legal representatives at that. It happened to a family member of mine, so this is first had information. Are you suggesting that 75% of men abuse their kids???? If not, that means a lot of people are telling porkies simply to further their own cause. And if they'll do it for reasons of gainin the FCA sre you doubting that some females, much to the detriment of the many genuine cases that deserve all of our support and understanding, make untrue accusations of assault on themselves.

Remember the old adage about "hell hath no fury......"

[joffaboy]

Remember the old adage about "hell hath no fury......"

You really hate women dont you?

You really need to try and get some closure mate, every time you write about women it is patently obvious one of them has done some bad damage to you.

Really try and move on mate, you sound very bitter.

cheers and have a HAPPY Christmas.

[Winmarvellous]

Until all the facts are presented, how about everybody just hold back, take a deep breath and enjoy Xmas. If he's found not guilty, surely we can't sack him. If he is, he's gone. Simple.

[barks4eva]

Geez, I love reading these threads, isn't it funny how, when something like this occurs half of the posters on here suddenly become Queens Councils whilst the other half become the moral police!!

Everyone is jumping to conclusions when there are bugger all facts presented. We know very little and are relying on a whole lot of scuttlebutt, we were quick to support Joey and Milney but are willing to cut Lovett off at the knees. Why? because "he has form".

I love the argument that even though someone is proven innocent in court doesn't mean that they didn't do it. Fantastic, so you people must be the ones that still scream out rapist every time Joey or Milne touch the ball.

IF Lovett is charged, tried and proven guilty then he will be sacked.
IF he isn't then he should be free to play.

here here, agree 100%

but bear in mind, this site is full of dumbed down, dingbats with their douche bag drivel,

you only had to read all the angry, pissed off responses when Thomas was fortunately sacked,
all the numbnuts who wouldn't get a drum with a brass band up them carrying on like the sky had fallen in because Grant was sacked,

FAIR DINKUM, what a bunch of know nothing dipshits,

12/9/06 was a day to celebrate, yet the nuffies with their GT love dolls were carrying on portraying Butterss as the antichrist and putting things in their sigs proclaiming their love for Thomas or chastising Butterss.

I just celebrated because I knew the club was getting serious and amateur hour which had dragged on for 5 and 1/2 years was no longer going to be tolerated.

Let's face it, this site is a gaggle of geeks, gumps, gimps and goofballs who know zip, zero, nada, nothing, diddly squat,SFA, proven beyond any shadow of doubt by the offal posted here in response to Thomas's sacking.

The responses in this thread are hardly surprising!

[maverick]

The only thing we know for sure is that Lovett may have assaulted a girl. Whether he gets off is immaterial to me. He just cannot be that unlucky. As the saying goes where there is smoke there is fire. A good lawyer may get him off but he is damaged goods and must be sent packing.

So why are Milne and Joey still there?
How many alledged incidents are OK?

If nothing is proved we can't sack him I wouldn't have thought under AFL PA rules...

They are footballers, no one said they were smart, if its proven bye bye, if not he plays....

[matrix]

why i am reading posts about GT in a lovetts suspended thread??

am i michael j fox??

[Milton66]

Geez, I love reading these threads, isn't it funny how, when something like this occurs half of the posters on here suddenly become Queens Councils whilst the other half become the moral police!!

Everyone is jumping to conclusions when there are bugger all facts presented. We know very little and are relying on a whole lot of scuttlebutt, we were quick to support Joey and Milney but are willing to cut Lovett off at the knees. Why? because "he has form".

I love the argument that even though someone is proven innocent in court doesn't mean that they didn't do it. Fantastic, so you people must be the ones that still scream out rapist every time Joey or Milne touch the ball.

IF Lovett is charged, tried and proven guilty then he will be sacked.
IF he isn't then he should be free to play.

here here, agree 100%

but bear in mind, this site is full of dumbed down, dingbats with their douche bag drivel,

you only had to read all the angry, pissed off responses when Thomas was fortunately sacked,
all the numbnuts who wouldn't get a drum with a brass band up them carrying on like the sky had fallen in because Grant was sacked,

FAIR DINKUM, what a bunch of know nothing dipshits,

12/9/06 was a day to celebrate, yet the nuffies with their GT love dolls were carrying on portraying Butterss as the antichrist and putting things in their sigs proclaiming their love for Thomas or chastising Butterss.

I just celebrated because I knew the club was getting serious and amateur hour which had dragged on for 5 and 1/2 years was no longer going to be tolerated.

Let's face it, this site is a gaggle of geeks, gumps, gimps and goofballs who know zip, zero, nada, nothing, diddly squat,SFA, proven beyond any shadow of doubt by the offal posted here in response to Thomas's sacking.

The responses in this thread are hardly surprising!

My man crush grows stronger by the day Andrew

Love,

Paris.

[Moods]

Geez, I love reading these threads, isn't it funny how, when something like this occurs half of the posters on here suddenly become Queens Councils whilst the other half become the moral police!!

Everyone is jumping to conclusions when there are bugger all facts presented. We know very little and are relying on a whole lot of scuttlebutt, we were quick to support Joey and Milney but are willing to cut Lovett off at the knees. Why? because "he has form".

I love the argument that even though someone is proven innocent in court doesn't mean that they didn't do it. Fantastic, so you people must be the ones that still scream out rapist every time Joey or Milne touch the ball.

IF Lovett is charged, tried and proven guilty then he will be sacked.
IF he isn't then he should be free to play.

Interesting logic Mad dog. If you and I are in a room together alone and I punch you in the head and there's no witnesses - that must mean I didn't do it and that I'm innocent cos there's not a court in the land that will find me guilty. Any solicitor will tell you it's not what you know to be true, it's what you can prove. THis is why whether he's found guilty or not is almost immaterial - it's the circumstances in which he found himself in that is potentially most damaging to him.

Not sure anyone has said he is guilty anyway - but ppl are pretty annoyed that he has managed to put himself in this position. Why don't 90% of footballers find themselves in these situations? Why is it that 10% of the players make 90% of the news when it comes to these type of things?

If Gary Ablett hadn't come fwd and told the police about what had occurred in a hotel room, he wouldn't have been charged with one thing with respect to Melissa Horan. Guess he was innocent up until that point (by your logic) - which was about 3 months AFTER the event.

I'm aware that most footballers aren't choir boys and that they have a life to lead. Just wish some were smart enough to learn from their mistakes. It is astounding that Lovett has found himself in this position not more than 5 weeks after being arrested for drunk.

[stinger]

OJ got off!! Yes, is it because he was a sports star with good lawyers? or because he didnt do it?

The fact he got off means he is innocent or so the jury and judge thought!!

Even if he did do it, if he had the right case then he will get off which means he is innocent...

I know a lot of lawyers who have gotten people off for murder, thats their job... I also know a judge and he said he can get anyone off at his discretion as there is a clause in there to be manipulated...

It is bad for the game if Lovett gets caught so therefore i think he wont be found guilty... He will be on his last strike if he does get found innocent

Accused people aren't found to be "innocent". The case against them is either proved beyond reasonable doubt or it is not. In the OJ case he was acquitted because the case against him couldn't be proved to that standard. A separate court later found him responsible for the woman's death on the balance of probabilities. While our criminal legal system is for very good reason based around the principle that someone is innocent until proven guilty, an acquittal doesn't necessarily wipe the slate clean in all respects.

we either find people either guilty or not guilty...the scots have a better system......there a jury can return a verdict of not proven.....in oj's case the trial judge and jury got sucked in by celebrity lawyers and let a guilty man walk free...happens more often than people realise

[bigred]

I doubt this bloke will play a game for us.

All over.

Was a good trade to make. Definately. Suited our needs completely.

No one can be held accountable if the bloke turns out to be a moron.

Obviously does not have the brains to be an AFL footballer.

[fingers]

I doubt this bloke will play a game for us.

All over.

Was a good trade to make. Definately. Suited our needs completely.

No one can be held accountable if the bloke turns out to be a moron.

Obviously does not have the brains to be an AFL footballer.

agree

[plugger66]

The only thing we know for sure is that Lovett may have assaulted a girl. Whether he gets off is immaterial to me. He just cannot be that unlucky. As the saying goes where there is smoke there is fire. A good lawyer may get him off but he is damaged goods and must be sent packing.

So why are Milne and Joey still there?
How many alledged incidents are OK?

If nothing is proved we can't sack him I wouldn't have thought under AFL PA rules...

They are footballers, no one said they were smart, if its proven bye bye, if not he plays....

Again I ask and no one seems to want to answer it, if it was OJ we are happy because he was found not guilty.

[skeptic]

here's a thought (not an opinion)
lets just say that the truth is that an assualt has occurred


isn't rehabilitating Andrew the best outcome for all parties, that is Andrew, the football club and society as well?
Shouldn't we try?

I'm struck by 1 of the forumites early on in this thread that said wouldn't the right thing to do be to put Lovett on an even shorter leash, stop him from being able to get himself into trouble rather than now completely isolating and abandoning him? Who wins with that outcome?

any thoughts?

[plugger66]

here's a thought (not an opinion)
lets just say that the truth is that an assualt has occurred


isn't rehabilitating Andrew the best outcome for all parties, that is Andrew, the football club and society as well?
Shouldn't we try?

I'm struck by 1 of the forumites early on in this thread that said wouldn't the right thing to do be to put Lovett on an even shorter leash, stop him from being able to get himself into trouble rather than now completely isolating and abandoning him? Who wins with that outcome?

any thoughts?

We are a footy club not a rehab facility for players who havent even been at the club for 5 minutes.

[BringBackMadDog]

Geez, I love reading these threads, isn't it funny how, when something like this occurs half of the posters on here suddenly become Queens Councils whilst the other half become the moral police!!

Everyone is jumping to conclusions when there are bugger all facts presented. We know very little and are relying on a whole lot of scuttlebutt, we were quick to support Joey and Milney but are willing to cut Lovett off at the knees. Why? because "he has form".

I love the argument that even though someone is proven innocent in court doesn't mean that they didn't do it. Fantastic, so you people must be the ones that still scream out rapist every time Joey or Milne touch the ball.

IF Lovett is charged, tried and proven guilty then he will be sacked.
IF he isn't then he should be free to play.

Interesting logic Mad dog. If you and I are in a room together alone and I punch you in the head and there's no witnesses - that must mean I didn't do it and that I'm innocent cos there's not a court in the land that will find me guilty. Any solicitor will tell you it's not what you know to be true, it's what you can prove. THis is why whether he's found guilty or not is almost immaterial - it's the circumstances in which he found himself in that is potentially most damaging to him.

Not sure anyone has said he is guilty anyway - but ppl are pretty annoyed that he has managed to put himself in this position. Why don't 90% of footballers find themselves in these situations? Why is it that 10% of the players make 90% of the news when it comes to these type of things?

If Gary Ablett hadn't come fwd and told the police about what had occurred in a hotel room, he wouldn't have been charged with one thing with respect to Melissa Horan. Guess he was innocent up until that point (by your logic) - which was about 3 months AFTER the event.

I'm aware that most footballers aren't choir boys and that they have a life to lead. Just wish some were smart enough to learn from their mistakes. It is astounding that Lovett has found himself in this position not more than 5 weeks after being arrested for drunk.

OK so is Lovett putting himself in a bad position by being in a house whilst there is a sleeping woman in it????? Because at this point of time that is the only thing that is FACT. If thats the case then there are a lot of people out there playing with fire.
Now I'm not saying he didn't do anything wrong BUT until there is evidence to the contrary, and believe me if he did in fact sexually assault the woman, there will be some physical evidence, I am prepared to presume him to be innocent. Because even though he is not the greatest human being in the world, he is still entitled to that right.

[Solar]

Stand him down until the matter is dealt with by the proper judicial authorities.

That is not an implication of guilt or innocence, more a temporary solution on our part as we seek to allow justice to take its natural course.

As a club, we should be offering our full support for Andrew in a difficult circumstance. We don't eat our own at St Kilda.

However, we must be diligent in striving to maintain players of the highest calibre.

Maybe he will get it together from here; maybe he won't. Either way, let's stand by our player - as an employee of the club - until we know all the facts.

well said, anything else is just hyperbole