Jarryd Allen and Leigh Fisher rookied

[plugger66]

Is Leigh Fisher still training with the team

No.

Will he be from now on? !!

I doubt it. I am pretty sure we only did it to pay him as we obviously didnt have any money left on this years cap.

[CeilidhSaint]

Thanks "experts" but I think you will find Leigh is training at 8 am with the team he has always supported, played 55 games for and done everything to do his best for.

[Solar]

what a bizzarre notion, you would not have your mature rookie training with you, injuries do happen...

[plugger66]

Thanks "experts" but I think you will find Leigh is training at 8 am with the team he has always supported, played 55 games for and done everything to do his best for.

I hope you are right. We will see tomorrow. He is a great guy and I hope he does well next year.

[groupie1]

Does anybody know why STK had to redraft Jarryd Allen? He is retired, so does that not absolve STK of its contractual duties. I always thought players retired pre-contract expiry all the time, thereby signaling their intention not to fulfill their contractual obligations, thereby nullifying the future enforceability of that contract at that point. I'm obviously wrong.
So what's the difference between Jarryd Allen and Barry Hall? Sydney were under no obligations to BH after he retired, right? Maybe there's a better example, but...
Is there something special about JA's situation, or is this normal? Why couldn't a player retire after the first year of a 5-year contract, and get paid for 5 years for doing nothing?

Is there something about retirement due to injury causing specific outcomes?

Please don't answer if all you got is 'Yeah, he f***** retired and then wants back, blah blah blah..' I'm actually interested in a knowledgable answer relating to AFL rules, etc.

[Devilhead]

Maybe we felt obliged to pay his contract out given the unfortunate nature of his injuries rather than leave him high and dry with no support after his career was cruelly cut short

[groupie1]

He would have insurance policies supported by the club to take care of post-injury complications in the future. It doesn't work like this. Luke Penny retired in second year of a 3-year contract. We didn't have to, and didn't, pay out his post-retirement contract period.

Drain: "He has retired and won’t be training with us or have any involvement. We had a contractual obligation to keep Jarryd."

[plugger66]

He would have insurance policies supported by the club to take care of post-injury complications in the future. It doesn't work like this. Luke Penny retired in second year of a 3-year contract. We didn't have to, and didn't, pay out his post-retirement contract period.

Drain: "He has retired and won’t be training with us or have any involvement. We had a contractual obligation to keep Jarryd."

Allen had a year to go on his contract. He and the club agreed to a payout figure but as we were right on the salary cap limit this year that figure couldnt be included in this years cap and as such the only way to pay him was to put him on a contract for next year.

[groupie1]

Aha!

So it's simply a function of when whatever payment has to be made can be made.

[joffaboy]

I dont like the idea of dipping into a future years SC to service current player costs.

Has the potential to leave us short next year doesn't it?

[Eastern]

I dont like the idea of dipping into a future years SC to service current player costs.

Has the potential to leave us short next year doesn't it?

From what I can gather;

Both had contracts for 2010. If we "Paid Them Out" after they were de-listed at the end of 2009 their 2010 salaries would go into the 2009 cap, sending us over.

By placing them on the (rookie) list, their salaries, for TPP reasons stay in the same year as their contracts.

This is ALL about the 2009 TPP. 2010 should be fine, as long as the accountants can count correctly !!

[joffaboy]

From what I can gather;

Both had contracts for 2010. If we "Paid Them Out" after they were de-listed at the end of 2009 their 2010 salaries would go into the 2009 cap, sending us over.

By placing them on the (rookie) list, their salaries, for TPP reasons stay in the same year as their contracts.

This is ALL about the 2009 TPP. 2010 should be fine, as long as the accountants can count correctly !!

Its not the accountants, they would be fixing the problem, it is the doozy contract managers giving plonkers like Fisher 10 year bloody contracts (Allen is a different kettle of fish though).

[sainter35]

I dont like the idea of dipping into a future years SC to service current player costs.

Has the potential to leave us short next year doesn't it?

Whilst I agree you, perhaps the fact we have Steven Baker listed as veteran inside the list (the only one in the league I believe) rather than outside the list must mean we have a little bit of room to manoeuvre within the cap.

[Eastern]

Its not the accountants, they would be fixing the problem

!!

[saintfreddy]

Interesting couple of lines from the Bigpond article Dec 15th;

"Allen actually announced his retirement during the 2009 season, having failed to recover from a hip injury sustained during the 2008 semi-final win over St Kilda.

But since his retirement in August, the 21-year-old's condition has improved and he has now been given another chance by the Saints."

iI am only quoting directly from the article

[karnak]

I sincerely hope so,

heart as big as Pharlaps imo

[Bernard Shakey]

Interesting couple of lines from the Bigpond article Dec 15th;

"Allen actually announced his retirement during the 2009 season, having failed to recover from a hip injury sustained during the 2008 semi-final win over St Kilda.

But since his retirement in August, the 21-year-old's condition has improved and he has now been given another chance by the Saints." :shock:

iI am only quoting directly from the article

They are guessing and guessing wrong. He will not play any footy again.

[Solar]

Maybe we felt obliged to pay his contract out given the unfortunate nature of his injuries rather than leave him high and dry with no support after his career was cruelly cut short

from memory this was correct, in fact the club was investigating processes to mae sure allen got his money but it did not effect the salary cap.

Once again, it works because the draft is so thin this year. I can't help but look at the quality of he 2008 rookies compared to what we have got in 2009.

So did leigh turn up for training today?

[dcstkfc]

I think it's a bit like how Michael Voss was still on Brisbane's list in 2007 even though he had retired.

[saintsRrising]

Maybe we felt obliged to pay his contract out given the unfortunate nature of his injuries rather than leave him high and dry with no support after his career was cruelly cut short

from memory this was correct, in fact the club was investigating processes to mae sure allen got his money but it did not effect the salary cap.

Once again, it works because the draft is so thin this year. I can't help but look at the quality of he 2008 rookies compared to what we have got in 2009.

So did leigh turn up for training today?

1/ I think the club has done the right thing by Allen. And I for one am most comfortable with that.

2/ However with Fisher one would have to say that the saints got it wrong with their last contract with him.

[Spinner]

Maybe we felt obliged to pay his contract out given the unfortunate nature of his injuries rather than leave him high and dry with no support after his career was cruelly cut short

from memory this was correct, in fact the club was investigating processes to mae sure allen got his money but it did not effect the salary cap.

Once again, it works because the draft is so thin this year. I can't help but look at the quality of he 2008 rookies compared to what we have got in 2009.

So did leigh turn up for training today?

1/ I think the club has done the right thing by Allen. And I for one am most comfortable with that.

2/ However with Fisher one would have to say that the saints got it wrong

Did the right thing by Allen?

Im pretty sure Allen would have received his money/medical retirement package regardless.

[plugger66]

Maybe we felt obliged to pay his contract out given the unfortunate nature of his injuries rather than leave him high and dry with no support after his career was cruelly cut short

from memory this was correct, in fact the club was investigating processes to mae sure allen got his money but it did not effect the salary cap.

Once again, it works because the draft is so thin this year. I can't help but look at the quality of he 2008 rookies compared to what we have got in 2009.

So did leigh turn up for training today?

Yes he did. Sorry about the wrong information.

[sunsaint]

Maybe we felt obliged to pay his contract out given the unfortunate nature of his injuries rather than leave him high and dry with no support after his career was cruelly cut short

from memory this was correct, in fact the club was investigating processes to mae sure allen got his money but it did not effect the salary cap.

Once again, it works because the draft is so thin this year. I can't help but look at the quality of he 2008 rookies compared to what we have got in 2009.

So did leigh turn up for training today?

1/ I think the club has done the right thing by Allen. And I for one am most comfortable with that.

2/ However with Fisher one would have to say that the saints got it wrong


Did the right thing by Allen?

Im pretty sure Allen would have received his money/medical retirement package regardless.

Personally I think Allen must have "some" photos locked away in a safe somewhere. He was injured in '08 and while some think he had potential, we are paying him two years of contract on the strength of the potential tag. But if memory serves me correctly Leigh Fisher was burning them up on the track in '09 preseason time trials.

[St Fidelius]

Maybe we felt obliged to pay his contract out given the unfortunate nature of his injuries rather than leave him high and dry with no support after his career was cruelly cut short

from memory this was correct, in fact the club was investigating processes to mae sure allen got his money but it did not effect the salary cap.

Once again, it works because the draft is so thin this year. I can't help but look at the quality of he 2008 rookies compared to what we have got in 2009.

So did leigh turn up for training today?

1/ I think the club has done the right thing by Allen. And I for one am most comfortable with that.

2/ However with Fisher one would have to say that the saints got it wrong with their last contract with him.

agreed.

But at least they have negated $100,000 from the Clubs salary cap by placing both of them as rookies as the first $50,000 of their contracts are exempt from the cap.

[Solar]

Maybe we felt obliged to pay his contract out given the unfortunate nature of his injuries rather than leave him high and dry with no support after his career was cruelly cut short

from memory this was correct, in fact the club was investigating processes to mae sure allen got his money but it did not effect the salary cap.

Once again, it works because the draft is so thin this year. I can't help but look at the quality of he 2008 rookies compared to what we have got in 2009.

So did leigh turn up for training today?

Yes he did. Sorry about the wrong information.

ha!