Ranking Exercise

[Spinner]

Stole this idea from Inside Football, basically you rank every player on our list.

Interesting stuff, outlines who the better players are, and who can improve.


1 - Riewoldt
2 - Hayes
3 - Dal Santo
4 - Goddard
5 - Montagna
6 - Fisher
7 - Koschitzke
8 - Lovett
9 - Gilbert
10 - Baker
11 - Gram
12 - Jones
13 - Gardiner
14 - Dawson
15 - Milne
16 - Schneider
17 - McQualter
18 - Blake
19 - Clarke
20 - Ray
21 - King
22 - Peake
23 - McEvoy
24 - Dempster
25 - Geary
26 - Smith, Jesse
27 - Armitage
28 - Gwilt
29 - Eddy
30 - Pattison
31 - Steven
32 - Lynch
33 - Miles
34 - Stanley
35 - Heyne
36 - Cahill
37 - Smith, Alistair
38 - Winmar
39 - Johnson


Harder to do than first thought, first 6 or so are guns, but falls away very quickly after that IMO.

Now something I have been debating in my head for sometime and still am - do we have too many GOP that have had their 4-5 years....

Dempster, Gwilt, Peake, Ray, McQualter, Schneider, Clarke, Blake, Patterson and I view Eddy and Miles in the same crop just younger.

Thats 11 players with experience that I cannot see elevating past good ordinary player status IMO. Is this too many, should I be worried?




Just a lack of hard core talent past our first 10 or so.

The most improvement to the team will be from what Geary and Armitage can contribute.

McEvoy and Lynch are another year from contributing by a greater value than their respective selection in the best 22.



Anyways Have a go, its a good way of really assessing the list in your own eyes.

(Bascially, from this exercise I walk away thinking ive been overrating our list.)

[saintlee]

I think you have lovett way too high up that ladder. His form is quite inconsistant....

Also, I think Gilbert should be above Kosi, and I would move Ray up a number of spots too.

[st.byron]

I think you have lovett way too high up that ladder. His form is quite inconsistant....

Also, I think Gilbert should be above Kosi, and I would move Ray up a number of spots too.

Agree that Gilbert is ahead of Kosi. Would also put CJ, Blakey, Gram, Ray and Gardi ahead of Kosi.

[Con Gorozidis]

stole the idea from inside football? im pretty sure the idea of ranking players has been around a while.a century or so im guessing.



as people have said - kosi too high for sure (i see him 12-14). i rank gilbo 7, gram 8..... put kosi and lovey back 5 places or so. but apart from these - i do think u have made a fair fist of it.

big bolters in 2010 - hopefully armo and geary.

[saintlee]

Don't have time to do the full list, but I think my top ten would be:

1 Riewoldt
2 Hayes
3 Goddard
4 Dal Santo
5 Montagna
6 Fisher
7 Gilbert
8 Gram
9 Ray
10 Gardiner

[HarveysDeciple]

Depends if you are talking best or if you are talking most imporant.

Best and Kozi would be around 12-14.

Most important and he'd be around 5

[Milan Faletic]

Clinton Jones would definitely be in my Top 10.

Most miserly defence in the AFL in 2009, I would have Blake and Dawson higher.

[meher baba]

Without regurgitating the lists already given on this thread, I would argue that we have around 24 players of proven AFL quality or better, and a further 5 or so (McEvoy, Geary, Gwilt and Armitage) on the fringe. We also have Steven - who looks likely but hasn't had quite enough of a go yet to convince me, and Eddy - who I don't reckon is of AFL quality but better judges such as Lyon think differently.

That gives us around 30 players who seem clearly up to it at this stage. Other clubs have more than 30, and we did in recent times. So we are a bit light-on for depth, but probably ok for the next year or two.

Sure, our top 6 or so players (Riewoldt, Hayes, Montagna, Dal, Fisher and Goddard) are a long way above the rest. But the situation is the same at every other club: it's a function of the salary cap.

I'm more bothered that - if you add Steven and Geary to the list of those who are yet to play AFL football - we have a dozen players who were recruited with draft picks below the top 10 (or were elevated rookies) and from whom the club does not seem to be expecting all that much at this stage. Even Steven and Geary, who have shown a fair bit, are no certainties to play more than a handful of AFL games in 2010.

The club demonstrates that it is not that confident about these fringe players by bringing in more and more recycled players from other clubs.

I'm not a great fan of this approach to building a list (which is reminiscent of the approach taken by the Swans until recently). I'm sure it's going to pose some problems for us down the track, but - unless our injury situation reverts to that of 2005-07 - I don't expect it to pose any problems during 2010, when we will once again be a big chance of securing our second premiership.

[S.A Saint]

1. Riewoldt
2. Hayes
3. Goddard
4. Dal Santo
5. Fisher
6. Gilbert
7. Montagna
8. Jones
9. Koschitzke
10. Baker
11. Gram
12. Lovett
13. Blake
14. Gardiner
15. Dawson
16. McQualter
17. Schneider
18. Milne
19. Ray
20. Armitage
21 Geary
22 Mcevoy

23. Dempster
24. Clarke
25. Gwilt
26. Eddy
27. King
28. Steven
29. Miles
30. Lynch

the rest after that...

[fugazi]

SA saint has the right top 7..Gilbert in our top 6 now.

I'd have Gram number 8....and not just based on the GF...he is such an important payer and has the x factor that turns games for the Sainters with crucial moments of brilliance.

[Milan Faletic]

Stole this idea from Inside Football, basically you rank every player on our list.

Interesting stuff, outlines who the better players are, and who can improve.

Good thread, Spinner

[S.A Saint]

SA saint has the right top 7..Gilbert in our top 6 now.

I'd have Gram number 8....and not just based on the GF...he is such an important payer and has the x factor that turns games for the Sainters with crucial moments of brilliance.

i would have had gram in the top ten but he is WAY to inconsistent with his kicking...

jones has beaten the most important players from each team throughout the year whilst also contributing in attack....

Kosi is very important to our forward structure and team balance....

baker well what can i say had probably the best finals series from our players and is our only true small forward defender.... we also seem to lack a replacement for him thus making him very important....

[Milan Faletic]

SA saint has the right top 7..Gilbert in our top 6 now.

I'd have Gram number 8....and not just based on the GF...he is such an important payer and has the x factor that turns games for the Sainters with crucial moments of brilliance.

i would have had gram in the top ten but he is WAY to inconsistent with his kicking...

jones has beaten the most important players from each team throughout the year whilst also contributing in attack....

Kosi is very important to our forward structure and team balance....

baker well what can i say had probably the best finals series from our players and is our only true small forward defender.... we also seem to lack a replacement for him thus making him very important....

I think your avatar pic would make top 2. Oops that means I am advocating soft porn...hey it's the off season

[Milan Faletic]

SA saint has the right top 7..Gilbert in our top 6 now.

Is that your opinion or is that fact?

[Con Gorozidis]

SA saint has the right top 7..Gilbert in our top 6 now.

I'd have Gram number 8....and not just based on the GF...he is such an important payer and has the x factor that turns games for the Sainters with crucial moments of brilliance.

i would have had gram in the top ten but he is WAY to inconsistent with his kicking...

jones has beaten the most important players from each team throughout the year whilst also contributing in attack....

Kosi is very important to our forward structure and team balance....

baker well what can i say had probably the best finals series from our players and is our only true small forward defender.... we also seem to lack a replacement for him thus making him very important....

agree we have no replacement for bakes. and gilbo is top 6. but while kosi is "important to structure" doesnt make him any good. hes often bad. out of position and generally ineffective. only 12-14 best. but 6th importance - like someone else said...

[S.A Saint]

SA saint has the right top 7..Gilbert in our top 6 now.

I'd have Gram number 8....and not just based on the GF...he is such an important payer and has the x factor that turns games for the Sainters with crucial moments of brilliance.

i would have had gram in the top ten but he is WAY to inconsistent with his kicking...

jones has beaten the most important players from each team throughout the year whilst also contributing in attack....

Kosi is very important to our forward structure and team balance....

baker well what can i say had probably the best finals series from our players and is our only true small forward defender.... we also seem to lack a replacement for him thus making him very important....

agree we have no replacement for bakes. and gilbo is top 6. but while kosi is "important to structure" doesnt make him any good. hes often bad. out of position and generally ineffective. only 12-14 best. but 6th importance - like someone else said...

He was actually playing quiet well before the hand injury...also takes a lot of heat of roo with his presence up forward....

[Saintersss]

OP is pretty much spot on...

Here's my effort (Best, not most important):

1. Riewoldt
2. Hayes
3. Dal Santo
4. Goddard
5. Fisher
6. Montagna
7. Gilbert
8. Jones
9. Koschitzke
10. Lovett
11. Gram
12. Milne
13. Gardiner
14. Blake
15. Schneider
16. Baker
17. Ray
18. Dawson
19. McQualter
20. King
21. McEvoy
22. Clarke
23. Geary
24. Armitage
25. Dempster
26. Smith
27. Peake
28. Eddy
29. Gwilt
30. Pattison
31. Steven
32. Lynch
33. Stanley
34. Miles
35. Heyne
36. Johnson
37. Winmar
38. Smith
39. Cahill

I reakon our top 7 is defiente though, and after that there is a little gap. Also hard to rate where Armitage, Geary, Steven and McEvoy are as you know they have great potential, but have yet to really do much. Also I probably rated Smith a little low, but if you can't get on the park you're not much use.
Also think people are underating Kosi & Milne. Milne made the AA squad and Kosi got around 12 brownlow votes which is very good for a forward and was only behind Roo, Brown and Fev in the Brownlow voting. Plus again apart from them 3, had pretty much scored as many goals as the other forwards in the competition.

[Moods]

Without regurgitating the lists already given on this thread, I would argue that we have around 24 players of proven AFL quality or better, and a further 5 or so (McEvoy, Geary, Gwilt and Armitage) on the fringe. We also have Steven - who looks likely but hasn't had quite enough of a go yet to convince me, and Eddy - who I don't reckon is of AFL quality but better judges such as Lyon think differently.

That gives us around 30 players who seem clearly up to it at this stage. Other clubs have more than 30, and we did in recent times. So we are a bit light-on for depth, but probably ok for the next year or two.

Sure, our top 6 or so players (Riewoldt, Hayes, Montagna, Dal, Fisher and Goddard) are a long way above the rest. But the situation is the same at every other club: it's a function of the salary cap.

I'm more bothered that - if you add Steven and Geary to the list of those who are yet to play AFL football - we have a dozen players who were recruited with draft picks below the top 10 (or were elevated rookies) and from whom the club does not seem to be expecting all that much at this stage. Even Steven and Geary, who have shown a fair bit, are no certainties to play more than a handful of AFL games in 2010.

The club demonstrates that it is not that confident about these fringe players by bringing in more and more recycled players from other clubs.

I'm not a great fan of this approach to building a list (which is reminiscent of the approach taken by the Swans until recently). I'm sure it's going to pose some problems for us down the track, but - unless our injury situation reverts to that of 2005-07 - I don't expect it to pose any problems during 2010, when we will once again be a big chance of securing our second premiership.

Who are these other clubs that have more than 30 players on their lists who are clearly up to it? I can't think of any, including Geelong - who showed this year that with a few injuries they were as vulnerable as anyone.

You then question the clubs methodology of recruiting players, but state that the club is a huge chance to win the 2010 flag. I would argue that our recruiting is aimed at short term success - and why not? We proved this year that we are a fingernail away from winning the thing, why not go for it? If the saints win the flag next year, I'm pretty sure the supporters will tolerate a few down years. If they don't, well at least we had a crack.

With the drfat picks that we had in a weak draft - why try and load up with kids that no-one rates too highly.

[Moods]

...

[Bono]

what are you ranking the players on......ability, potential, importance to team structure, performances in 2009??

[borderbarry]

If the ranking was just based on the last game played, which just happens to be our most important game in recent years, the lists are wayyy out.

[Con Gorozidis]

i cant speak for the OP - but they seem like overall average performances to me. which is what you would expect in a thing called rankings. FFS! did he say rankings for GF game only?

They look like overall average performances to me. and i reckon he has them mostly right. just kosi/lovey down. Gramy/Gilbo up.

[Con Gorozidis]

If the ranking was just based on the last game played, which just happens to be our most important game in recent years, the lists are wayyy out.

well theyre not. i think GF ratings have been done to death,

[Con Gorozidis]

what are you ranking the players on......ability, potential, importance to team structure, performances in 2009??

actual performance 08/09.

the other things u mentioned are but fantasies.

[saintjake]

OP is pretty much spot on...

Here's my effort (Best, not most important):

1. Riewoldt
2. Hayes
3. Dal Santo
4. Goddard
5. Fisher
6. Montagna
7. Gilbert
8. Jones
9. Koschitzke
10. Lovett
11. Gram
12. Milne
13. Gardiner
14. Blake
15. Schneider
16. Baker
17. Ray
18. Dawson
19. McQualter
20. King
21. McEvoy
22. Clarke
23. Geary
24. Armitage
25. Dempster
26. Smith
27. Peake
28. Eddy
29. Gwilt
30. Pattison
31. Steven
32. Lynch
33. Stanley
34. Miles
35. Heyne
36. Johnson
37. Winmar
38. Smith
39. Cahill

I reakon our top 7 is defiente though, and after that there is a little gap. Also hard to rate where Armitage, Geary, Steven and McEvoy are as you know they have great potential, but have yet to really do much. Also I probably rated Smith a little low, but if you can't get on the park you're not much use.
Also think people are underating Kosi & Milne. Milne made the AA squad and Kosi got around 12 brownlow votes which is very good for a forward and was only behind Roo, Brown and Fev in the Brownlow voting. Plus again apart from them 3, had pretty much scored as many goals as the other forwards in the competition.

if its best, jonesy cant be in the top 10 - shocking skills.
in most important he is easily in the top 10 though.