Ball likely to become a Demon - whether he likes it or not

[plugger66]

They changed the rules to let women in so if the club gets to old I think they will just have a different membership for younger people. I dont think it will happen though as it hasnt changed much in the last 15 years except the year they did the rebuild. Also it is easy to fix. just put the membership price up.

[ace]

They changed the rules to let women in so if the club gets to old I think they will just have a different membership for younger people. I dont think it will happen though as it hasnt changed much in the last 15 years except the year they did the rebuild. Also it is easy to fix. just put the membership price up.

Like I said the fair and democratic principles of the club make it the preferred ground managers.

Jacking the price up to exclude all but those wealthy enough, will not appeal to state governments especially those of a Labor persuasion.

Don't forget that the accelerated admission of women was a result of pressure from the Cain Labor government and that the same John Cain was later instrumental in ensuring that the MCC retained the management rights to the MCG.


Different membership for younger people - what would that include, able to use club facilities on non match days only, able to attend only football games against interstate clubs, able to attend state v state cricket matches.
I don't think that solves the problem.

[plugger66]

They changed the rules to let women in so if the club gets to old I think they will just have a different membership for younger people. I dont think it will happen though as it hasnt changed much in the last 15 years except the year they did the rebuild. Also it is easy to fix. just put the membership price up.

Like I said the fair and democratic principles of the club make it the preferred ground managers.

Jacking the price up to exclude all but those wealthy enough, will not appeal to state governments especially those of a Labor persuasion.

Don't forget that the accelerated admission of women was a result of pressure from the Cain Labor government and that the same John Cain was later instrumental in ensuring that the MCC retained the management rights to the MCG.


Different membership for younger people - what would that include, able to use club facilities on non match days only, able to attend only football games against interstate clubs, able to attend state v state cricket matches.
I don't think that solves the problem.

Alright none of my ideas are any good in your opinion, which I disagree with, what ideas would you have taking into account I think your figures are wrong anyway.

[Hurricane]

Good.

BANG BANG

[bob__71]

Just skimmed through the posts but just wanna say that if he ends up, great career move Luke and even better management from Paul Connors, and last but not least, the Ball family.

top job by connors.
after all this he has squeezed out an extra $0 for his client. well worth the effort heartbreak and phone calls. great job!

saints offer 3 x 330 = 1 mill.
connors demand = 2 x 500 + 75 = 1.075 mill.

take out tax. PC's fee etc etc. Luke will end up with no change to his $$ and be stuck at cellar dweller melbourne with no chance of a flag in his career.

i should get this connors guy myself next time im negotiating a contract!

So at least you can see he isnt leaving for money. Must be what I said all along. Could see he would have struggled for a game with us so rightly he wants out.

You say "Rightly he wants out" Others say he is a quitter and they are dissappointed because they thought he was made of sterner stuff.

I say it was right for him to leave because he is a quitter.

[BAM! (shhhh)]

Seems a lot of people are taking this awfully personally.

From my perspective, I hate Ball's decision - at least partially because it's to my detriment. Ball walking without return is a bad thing for my team, reducing their chances of bringing me joy, so I'm worse off. If I'm objective, I can see how Luke Ball's career isn't entirely about me though...

In his shoes, I'd have been weighing up my options after the season too. If other teams approached my manager, I'd have listened. If they addressed my issues best, I might even have been able to overcome my anti-Collingwood and nominate them as a preferred destination during trade week and beyond.

For the rest, I can't blame him for trying to get to his destination post trade-week. It'd have to colour his decision that Collingwood having sold him then wasn't willing to offer a trade that got the deal done - if Collingwood don't get Luke Ball, they have nobody but themselves to blame (I really hope he ends up at Melbourne, and actually think it'd be better for Ball to be playing on the G for the Ds than Etihand for the Dons).

One of the things that's interesting (especially post 23 month announcement, meaning Ball will play for whoever drafts him) is to see where the rest of the league rates him. IMO, he's at a crossroads. He's an elite ballwinner and tackler, but below average in just about every other on field facet. He had a tough time holding his spot in a deep '09 team, and while 2010 could have seen him either take it to another level, another injury or two could have seen him on the outside looking in.

Do you draft the ex-AA player who is in and under everything, or do you steer clear of the mid-20s groin explosion waiting to happen? I would bet a lot of Collingwood's interest was actually them backing their training facilities to be able to get a great player for the price of a GOP.

St Kilda rated him higher than that, the question is now where everyone else did.

[saintsRrising]

Like you BAM! I will be interested to see what value is placed on his head...though this is still not neceassrily true value as a team that wants him has to bare in mind where their picks are in realtion to other teams who might take.

ie The Dees might not quite value him as an 18, but to take him they would have to use that pick.

If I am objective based on Ball's recent years he is not worth more than 18. Eeesendons picks are probably fair vlaue and it is justa pity that we could not get the three-way done to have obtained say Everitt for Ball.

Also on Ball...the last several years I was putting his lack of form down to being "injury hampered". However I am now more wondering if there is more of the touch of the "Fiora" about whena guy with lots of ability does not have the mental application to deliver in a game on a consistent basis.

Sure Bally always went in hard, but based on 2009 he simply did not have the mental-game to deliver on the team aspects of the game.

Interesting to read of Hocking's coaching success with u18's of late and that the playeers under him glowing about how he taught them all aspects of the game with probably the No. 1 realisation being that they needed to play an important role when they did not have the ball and crucially that this was very influential to a games outcome.


Whether we miss Ball or not in 2010 will largely depend on the seasons of Lovett, Armo and possibly Peake, Geary and Steven. Given a good output here Ball may well have played little senior football with the Saints in 2010.

[satchmo]

In his shoes, I'd have been weighing up my options after the season too.

The part that concerns me most is that it appears to have been organised way earlier than that.

[ace]

They changed the rules to let women in so if the club gets to old I think they will just have a different membership for younger people. I dont think it will happen though as it hasnt changed much in the last 15 years except the year they did the rebuild. Also it is easy to fix. just put the membership price up.

Like I said the fair and democratic principles of the club make it the preferred ground managers.

Jacking the price up to exclude all but those wealthy enough, will not appeal to state governments especially those of a Labor persuasion.

Don't forget that the accelerated admission of women was a result of pressure from the Cain Labor government and that the same John Cain was later instrumental in ensuring that the MCC retained the management rights to the MCG.


Different membership for younger people - what would that include, able to use club facilities on non match days only, able to attend only football games against interstate clubs, able to attend state v state cricket matches.
I don't think that solves the problem.

Alright none of my ideas are any good in your opinion, which I disagree with, what ideas would you have taking into account I think your figures are wrong anyway.

Like I said it is the problem that no-one wants to admit exists.
AND for good reason.
The only solutions that I have heard are like yours and will undermine the club's fair and democratic principles and hence the MCC's preferred ground manager position.
I don't have any better solution than yourself, I was hoping you knew if internally the club had a better solution.
Obviously you are not aware of one.

[Gershwin]

Dear Luke,
I am sure you will like playing at Melbourne.
They are a proud club with the tradition and values that a private school chap like you would appreciate. They have a wonderful President and the coach appears to be pretty decent.
You will be getting an excellent salary - probably more than you actually deserve. And you will get plenty of game time to do what you do best - get the ball and feed it out. And you won’t have to do that “spreadingâ€

[markp]

[quote="Gershwin"]Dear Luke,
I am sure you will like playing at Melbourne.
They are a proud club with the tradition and values that a private school chap like you would appreciate. They have a wonderful President and the coach appears to be pretty decent.
You will be getting an excellent salary - probably more than you actually deserve. And you will get plenty of game time to do what you do best - get the ball and feed it out. And you won’t have to do that “spreadingâ€

[saintbrat]

this paragraph seems ok till the punch line- there still seems to be a push to blame St Kilda

And while even the AFLPA does not expect the league to ever grant unlimited free agency - surely players of the calibre of Luke Ball that have played over 100 games, been a club captain, a best-and-fairest winner and outstanding citizen off the field should be allowed to go to the club of their choice when they are suddenly thrown on the scrapheap by their original club.

I am sure that the Club/ football department are ok with Luke making a choice- players do all the time
I'm sure the team are adjusting and may even have had an inkling he wasn't happy and are coming to terms with it..

where the push to put it all onto the Saints shoulders I can only make assumptions

the reason for angst is probably mainly from Supporters and fans who hoped ALL the players loved the club as much as we do, but in reality there is abig differance- WE
to love the Club and thus the Team- players are paid to Love the team/ game But not to be beholden to them

I have come to the conclusion that FOR ME - if Luke had come out and 'said "I've enjoyed the ride and the experience BUT would like to try something differant" I may have been more understanding...
as this above article says - we are all free to choose our employee- well that's the premise but many would say it's not easy for many,

http://sportal.com.au/AFL-opinion-displ ... tter-81833

[Mr Magic]

This is the part of the article that makes me just shake my head in wonderment:-

And in Ball's case it's not as if he walked out on the Saints just because he wanted to play for Collingwood.

Instead Ball - one of the hardest working, most respected and likable players in the AFL, was harshly treated by the club he has given sterling service over the past eight years during which time he played 142 games.

The 25-year-old, who got tired of being constantly dragged on and off the interchange bench and even spent time in the VFL this season, is only looking to move to Collingwood in a bid to get the kind of game time he believes his talents deserve.

So he wants to go to a Club that has consistantly created a new record for the most interchanges in a game, because he doesn't enjoy being 'dragged on and off the interchange bench'?

Sometimes I wonder what qualifications, other than idiocy, do people need to become 'journalists'?

[SainterK]

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/l ... 5803731563

Luke Ball still in mix for Power

PORT Adelaide has softened its stance on snaring former St Kilda captain Luke Ball, refusing to rule out making a play for the 25-year-old in tomorrow night's AFL national draft.
Despite declaring last week "we won't be using any of our first three picks on Luke Ball", the Power surprisingly back-tracked yesterday, indicating Ball still was in the mix to land at Alberton.

"We won't be ruling anyone out right now," operations manager Peter Rohde said.

"As we've said, we'll pick the best available player. We've got a stated aim that we'll go young and depending on who's available when we have our picks, we'll look at Luke Ball.

"He's 25 years of age, he's not outside the realms because he's going to play for another five or six years you'd expect, but probably we'll go for a younger focus."

[ace]

Luke Ball has already been demonised, it only remains to see what club he gets drafted by.

[Moods]

WEll it appears in all the phantom drafts they have Ball going at pick 30. Most of these people who write these articles know far more than the average Joe, as they talk to all the recruiters at each club.

My tip - is that Ball will get his wish and end up at the pies. No other club will pay him 500k a year I reckon.

[Shaggy]

This is the part of the article that makes me just shake my head in wonderment:-

And in Ball's case it's not as if he walked out on the Saints just because he wanted to play for Collingwood.

Instead Ball - one of the hardest working, most respected and likable players in the AFL, was harshly treated by the club he has given sterling service over the past eight years during which time he played 142 games.

The 25-year-old, who got tired of being constantly dragged on and off the interchange bench and even spent time in the VFL this season, is only looking to move to Collingwood in a bid to get the kind of game time he believes his talents deserve.

So he wants to go to a Club that has consistantly created a new record for the most interchanges in a game, because he doesn't enjoy being 'dragged on and off the interchange bench'?

Sometimes I wonder what qualifications, other than idiocy, do people need to become 'journalists'?

The point for LB is not number of interchanges but time on the interchange IMO.

Regardless I agree the article is so biased against the Saints it is a disgrace.

He cannot be a serious reporter.

[Milan Faletic]

Sources have said he is a demon already, so playing for the Demons may be poetic justice.

[Teflon]

WEll it appears in all the phantom drafts they have Ball going at pick 30. Most of these people who write these articles know far more than the average Joe, as they talk to all the recruiters at each club.

My tip - is that Ball will get his wish and end up at the pies. No other club will pay him 500k a year I reckon.

I reckon theres a lot of club jockeying - Ball will be a Pie and I look forward to smashing him/them next season and he taking as large a chunk of their salary cap as he can get....

[St Michele]

God I hope he goes to Melbourne if not Collingwood will be unbearable in any negotiations in the future as they will think they will just get what they want anyway.

Luke should not have expected to be able to chose his future club and for us to roll over and do everything to keep him happy.

I look forward to seeing him in the Blue and Red next year and will be really disallusioned if he becomes a Magpie.

[Top4King]

hope is for those who have nothing michele.
emma the expert quayle will end up with egg on her face.

[BAM! (shhhh)]

The demonising of St Kilda is this has me shaking my head... and is the main reason that I'd like to see him picked up by Melbourne.

Luke Ball wasn't thrown on the scrapheap. He announced during trade week that he wanted to be traded to Collingwood, and only Collingwood. It takes 3 to make a trade in AFL world, and Collingwood, having seduced the player, then refused to pay to get him across.

IMO (and this is entirely speculative, the reason the AFLPA hasn't drawn a line in the sand re: Free Agency yet is the unmatched trade negotiating power of players. Should players get free agency, the other shoe would undoubtedly be that they would, up to the time of achieving FA status, need to allow the clubs to trade them... otherwise any club down the bottom of the money and ladder is going to see an exodus of their best for nothing. There would also be much stricter rules around clubs talking to contracted players from other clubs (ala Hawthorn).

The sum being that while Free Agency would have allowed Ball to go to Collingwood. Unrestricted trading would have allowed St Kilda to leverage a better return than anything offered by the pies.

Until such time, the simple fact is that of the 3 parties necessary to facilitate a player move without using the draft, the one that wouldn't come to the table was the Magpies, not the Saints.

[saintsRrising]

Is Ball worth $500K per year? No way.

Luke looks like paying out his career as one of the most overpaid players ever in terms of delivered value.

He was paid over the odds at St Kilda based on an expectation that he would become an elite player. A stauts that he never reached.


Is he worth the Dees pick 18? In itself now. However the Dees will havean imbalance of young players and are struggling to meet the minimum salry cap requirements (some forget that just as their is a maximum that cannot be exceeded that there is also a minimum due to Fitzroy).

Is he worth pick 24/26 to the Dons. = yes, but the $500 K pa would have to make them think twice as Ball is not worth anyware near that.

So to me where he goes really depends on how much the Dees decide that they need to offset their youth imbalance.