Global warming,boat people,WW3,yep its all GTs faultmarkp wrote:It's GT's fault.
Character: Dal Santo and Milne v Ball
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CeilidhSaint
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Falling out.
Coach and player.
Lock it in, simple as that and I have relatives in low places who would confirm.
BTW, I used to think L Hayes was quite aloof until I spoke to him at the Saints B&F after party this year - fricken top bloke!
I think Luke is just shy.
BTW, at the B&F of all the players the two that seemed the most unhappy were Luke and Goose and it was very obvious to me at the time (and yes, it is 20/20 vision) but I am just saying what I thought.
Coach and player.
Lock it in, simple as that and I have relatives in low places who would confirm.
BTW, I used to think L Hayes was quite aloof until I spoke to him at the Saints B&F after party this year - fricken top bloke!
I think Luke is just shy.
BTW, at the B&F of all the players the two that seemed the most unhappy were Luke and Goose and it was very obvious to me at the time (and yes, it is 20/20 vision) but I am just saying what I thought.
TB 1 - The Brightest Light on the Darkest Night - we miss you.
Think Globally, Act Sainterly
I have Phil Narkle's helmet
Think Globally, Act Sainterly
I have Phil Narkle's helmet
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Milan Faletic
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desertsaint
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Milan Faletic
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Batnoe
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Moods
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I think if we learnt anything out of all this, is the reasons why we loved harves, Burkey, and Loewey. 300 game 1 club players who were stars. Whilst Ball may maximise is earnings from footy (some will say that's very smart) I would argue that possibly in 20 years time he will look back with a tinge of regret about his actions. The great 1 club players have more than just a comfortable lifestyle thanks to their footy club, they have respect and love from their supporters.
Looking at the OP - Milney is the classic example. In my view, will never be regarded as a superstar by the wider footy community, definitely has his faults - however he's ours, has played 200 games (or close enough) and will always be regarded as a saint. He reminds me of Micky Conlan at the Roys - was maligned by opposition supporters, but Roy supporters loved him b/c he was there's. Mick was always respected and loved. Milney will be as well. You can't buy that in life
As for the OP. A touch unfair possibly. Ball was dropped virtually from Rd 15 onwards - Dal and Milney were dropped for 1 game only. Dal now has the opportunity to be regarded as one of the all time great saints players if he keeps playing like this year. His limitations were far less than what Ball is facing. I reckon Bally took the pragmatic view that he couldn't be the player that Lyon wanted him to be, and he wouldn't get paid in the manner he was used to anymore at the saints. He has chosen the path which guarantees him a more comfortable life - but will it be more satisfying?
My dad used to always say - you only truly learn anything about a person when they are placed under real pressure/adversity. We may have learnt plenty about Ball and what makes him tick.
Looking at the OP - Milney is the classic example. In my view, will never be regarded as a superstar by the wider footy community, definitely has his faults - however he's ours, has played 200 games (or close enough) and will always be regarded as a saint. He reminds me of Micky Conlan at the Roys - was maligned by opposition supporters, but Roy supporters loved him b/c he was there's. Mick was always respected and loved. Milney will be as well. You can't buy that in life
As for the OP. A touch unfair possibly. Ball was dropped virtually from Rd 15 onwards - Dal and Milney were dropped for 1 game only. Dal now has the opportunity to be regarded as one of the all time great saints players if he keeps playing like this year. His limitations were far less than what Ball is facing. I reckon Bally took the pragmatic view that he couldn't be the player that Lyon wanted him to be, and he wouldn't get paid in the manner he was used to anymore at the saints. He has chosen the path which guarantees him a more comfortable life - but will it be more satisfying?
My dad used to always say - you only truly learn anything about a person when they are placed under real pressure/adversity. We may have learnt plenty about Ball and what makes him tick.
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St DAC
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Well I may be a dissenting view, but I reckon he's got the absolute right to maximise the rewards in his time in the game. He's now 25, has about 5 years left, and has already given us 8 years of blood and guts (albeit well paid years).
Loyalty in footy is an over-rated concept. The club has cut many a favourite son from the list (Goose for example) when it suits them to do so. In Luke's case he's cut the club in what he believes is his own best interests. It's a 2-way street; clubs deserve loyalty for the length of the contract IMO no more no less. No-one could say Luke has failed that particular test. If he wants out then he goes with my good wishes, and immediately becomes an opposition player hence forth who I no longer care about.
You're a Saint or you ain't. He ain't anymore, but dumping a load of crap on him for leaving is unreasonable IMO.
Loyalty in footy is an over-rated concept. The club has cut many a favourite son from the list (Goose for example) when it suits them to do so. In Luke's case he's cut the club in what he believes is his own best interests. It's a 2-way street; clubs deserve loyalty for the length of the contract IMO no more no less. No-one could say Luke has failed that particular test. If he wants out then he goes with my good wishes, and immediately becomes an opposition player hence forth who I no longer care about.
You're a Saint or you ain't. He ain't anymore, but dumping a load of crap on him for leaving is unreasonable IMO.
One could argue that "dumping a loaf of crap" on the Saints through his management and family wasn't his finest moment?St DAC wrote:Well I may be a dissenting view, but I reckon he's got the absolute right to maximise the rewards in his time in the game. He's now 25, has about 5 years left, and has already given us 8 years of blood and guts (albeit well paid years).
Loyalty in footy is an over-rated concept. The club has cut many a favourite son from the list (Goose for example) when it suits them to do so. In Luke's case he's cut the club in what he believes is his own best interests. It's a 2-way street; clubs deserve loyalty for the length of the contract IMO no more no less. No-one could say Luke has failed that particular test. If he wants out then he goes with my good wishes, and immediately becomes an opposition player hence forth who I no longer care about.
You're a Saint or you ain't. He ain't anymore, but dumping a load of crap on him for leaving is unreasonable IMO.
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St DAC
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Is that what he did? I'm yet to see a direct quote from Luke over the course of the entire saga. Connors may have been running his mouth, but that's what player managers do; I wouldn't take much notice of him.
Obviously Luke is no longer happy at the Saints, so he's moving on. That's life. But there's folks on this site impugning his character for doing what he thinks is best for him, and I reckon we'd all do the same (do what we think is best for us) when push comes to shove.
Obviously Luke is no longer happy at the Saints, so he's moving on. That's life. But there's folks on this site impugning his character for doing what he thinks is best for him, and I reckon we'd all do the same (do what we think is best for us) when push comes to shove.
Excellent point moods. This is the whole point of the thread. I didn't mean to be unfair on Luke Ball and believe, as you do, the circumstances are a bit different to Milne and Dal Santo.Moods wrote:
As for the OP. A touch unfair possibly. Ball was dropped virtually from Rd 15 onwards - Dal and Milney were dropped for 1 game only. Dal now has the opportunity to be regarded as one of the all time great saints players if he keeps playing like this year. His limitations were far less than what Ball is facing. I reckon Bally took the pragmatic view that he couldn't be the player that Lyon wanted him to be, and he wouldn't get paid in the manner he was used to anymore at the saints. He has chosen the path which guarantees him a more comfortable life - but will it be more satisfying?
The OP was a discussion point only and wasn't meant to be an attack on Luke Ball. The Milne/Dal Santo dropping generated a lot of heat with many posts surmising that both players should leave because they were dropped, while others opined that they should suck it up and put in the effort required.
This is where the similarity to LB's circumstances lie.
I certainly didn't mean this thread to be a character assasination of LB, although the bias would surely be in favour of Dal/Milne considering they are Saints players and the other bloke is now persona non gratia
Lance or James??
There comes a point in every man's life when he has to say, "Enough is enough." For me, that time is now. I have been dealing with claims that I cheated and had an unfair advantage in <redacted>. Over the past three years, I have been subjected to a <redacted>investigation followed by <redacted> witch hunt. The toll this has taken on my family, and my work for <redacted>and on me leads me to where I am today – finished with this nonsense. (Oops just got a spontaneous errection <unredacted>)
There comes a point in every man's life when he has to say, "Enough is enough." For me, that time is now. I have been dealing with claims that I cheated and had an unfair advantage in <redacted>. Over the past three years, I have been subjected to a <redacted>investigation followed by <redacted> witch hunt. The toll this has taken on my family, and my work for <redacted>and on me leads me to where I am today – finished with this nonsense. (Oops just got a spontaneous errection <unredacted>)
Maybe St DAC. In personal and work life we owe our loyalty to our family first, friends second and work a distant last.St DAC wrote:Is that what he did? I'm yet to see a direct quote from Luke over the course of the entire saga. Connors may have been running his mouth, but that's what player managers do; I wouldn't take much notice of him.
Obviously Luke is no longer happy at the Saints, so he's moving on. That's life. But there's folks on this site impugning his character for doing what he thinks is best for him, and I reckon we'd all do the same (do what we think is best for us) when push comes to shove.
Footy clubs tend to be a bit different. Players ramble on and on and on about team success, all about the team, nothing but the team. Individual success and lauding it is frowned upon in AFL culture.
Many clubs have had players take pay cuts to keep the group together. St.Mart started a thread quoting the "pact" this group of players made in 2003 about team success.
We, as supporters, get fed this verbatim infinitum by players and the club and other supporters and the media relentlessly.
So when a player who crys at a GF loss, who pays lip services to his team at the Family Day the day after the loss, who addresses the faithfull supporters with the usual "team" platitudes, suddenly, two weeks later, wants to walk
1) not for money
2) family is upset at his treatment by the club
3) position untenable
4) Now it is for money ($500k placed on his head)
Supporters, or some, who want to believe that what they are told about "team" ethics, and FQF (in our case), and that the tears were genuine and that he wasn't bulltishing the crowd the day after, get bewildered and more than a little disenchanted with the whole charade.
So it comes to this. We get told our game is unique. We get told our game is all about team and loyalty to your mates. We get the platitutes from players with the usual footy speak cliches.
Our little provincial game is based on fanatisism and club loyalty - thats how it survives. The elephant in the room is that all the team platitudes and "loyalty" only goes one way, and that is from the supporter.
Doesn't matter what Luke Ball, or Riewoldt, or Hayes, or Max (who suddenly has a new loyalty)says, it is only us who is loyal. The problem is that many fans want to believe they are being told the truth by players from their club.
It hurts when they find out all the words were empty.
Lance or James??
There comes a point in every man's life when he has to say, "Enough is enough." For me, that time is now. I have been dealing with claims that I cheated and had an unfair advantage in <redacted>. Over the past three years, I have been subjected to a <redacted>investigation followed by <redacted> witch hunt. The toll this has taken on my family, and my work for <redacted>and on me leads me to where I am today – finished with this nonsense. (Oops just got a spontaneous errection <unredacted>)
There comes a point in every man's life when he has to say, "Enough is enough." For me, that time is now. I have been dealing with claims that I cheated and had an unfair advantage in <redacted>. Over the past three years, I have been subjected to a <redacted>investigation followed by <redacted> witch hunt. The toll this has taken on my family, and my work for <redacted>and on me leads me to where I am today – finished with this nonsense. (Oops just got a spontaneous errection <unredacted>)
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St DAC
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No argument there from me Joffa.joffaboy wrote:Maybe St DAC. In personal and work life we owe our loyalty to our family first, friends second and work a distant last.
Many good points there too, but in the end nursery rhymes are just that. These guys are playing with the grown ups, and we as grown-up supporters need to realise that platitudes aside, loyalty only lasts for a contract. Sad but true IMO. And if free agency comes in look for it to get a whole lot worse.... various good points ...
It hurts when they find out all the words were empty.
When they are ours we love 'em, and hope that they love us and the club. But many change players teams and quickly develop new loyalties; Fev at Brisbane being a case in point. Watch the Brisbane faithful clutch him to their collective bosom in no time flat.