Milne great during the home and away

[samoht]

.. but given his final record (not his fault as all forward pocket /smalls usually go missing in high pressure finals) why wasn't someone like Armitage played instead ?

could a slightly bigger player have made the difference ?

Also Armitage would have laid some great tackles too - caused a couple of turnovers and have been used in midfield rotations if required?

Should Milne be an automatic selection in finals from now on ?

I'm not picking on Milne - just that small forward pockets usually are ineffective in finals, that's the way it is.

[spert]

What's the point of playing good footy all year and then just letting it slip on the most important day..go figure. Most of our players did a good job in the finals, but the forwards let us down.

[ace]

It is not just small forwards who have this problem.
It happens to all forwards.

Those of us who remember Tony Lockett playing for St Kilda loved the times when he kicked more than 10 goals in a match and he did it often.
But the reality is he did it against crap full backs and poor coaches who failed to block the space into which he could lead.

Lockett's truly finest performances were when he kicked a few less than 10 goals against the best full backs in the business and against well coached defences.

Milne's weakness is his lack of height, he can not be used as a marking target, he is too easily beaten.
A taller player capable of doing everything Milne does would be ideal, but coaches have to use what they have got to their best advantage.

Milne averages two goals per game which is excellent for a small forward but come the finals he gets to play against the finest back pockets in the business.
He may not get many goals in finals but he makes his opponent play on him.
Without a player of Milne's quality the opposition back pocket would be helping out elsewhere to St Kilda's detriment.
Milne also provides the chase that runs opposition defenders into the arms of our tacklers.

As Ross Lyon would point out, it is what Milne does in the 98% of time he doesn't have the ball that makes him valuable.

[saintsRrising]

Stevie J played a blinder in the GF = NOT.

Thing is about finals is that the quality of one's opponent is likely to be better too.


However with Milne, Schneider and Mini...asa group they all cumulatively got in enough positions and won enough ball to get a goodly number of shots on goal. They just kicked poorly..which is vital of course.


That is not to say thata medium forward instead of one of small would not be good..but in 2009 Gwilt and others were not good enough.

Lovett will provide another option to in 2010.

[StSteven]

Stevie J - Norm Smith medallist - not too bad a game in 07 gf.
Byrnes, Chapman seemed to struggle through this years gf!!

Milne goes missing....

[milney044]

I don't really know if "going missing" is the correct term when he had 3 goal scoring opportunities. What is clear is that he missed these opportunities. It's a matter of whether you can go in to a game when you know a player suffers the anxiety that goes with these high pressure situations. It really is a tough one because i've seen him nail goals in home and away games to get us over the line. A player like him (small forward/ goal sneak) is always going to either be the hero or the villain and i guess it's the risk you take.
Schneider, McQualter and Dempster all failed to deliver also- missing shots they would kick 9/10.

It's a hard one because i use Stevie J as the prime example of hero or villain. One year he is the winner of the Norm Smith, this year he struggled to get a kick (under an injury cloud i know, but he still played so imo is judged the same).

The trouble with Milne and his position is, he only gets so many opportunities per game, so he really HAS to make the most of them. Unfortunately he didn't take them in a game that mattered most, and that is what hurts.

[samoht]

But looking past the GF - the point may be, good as he is during the home and away - he along with other good forward pocket smalls simply don't perform in finals.

How many finals has Milne played in and how many goals has he kicked ?
-they are the cold hard facts.

Maybe the pressure to perform in a final did get to him mentally and he missed 3 opportunities he would have normally kicked - but it's exactly the same result and probably stems from the intimidating physical pressure small forward pockets buckle under in finals.

There could be a lesson to be learnt here and maybe in hindsight we should have given someone slightly bigger a chance to play forward pocket in the grand final.

Why not Armitage ?- he's slightly bigger, might handle the physical pressure better and would have provided the right mix in our forward line - and has shown he can kick goals.

[ace]

It's a hard one because i use Stevie J as the prime example of hero or villain. One year he is the winner of the Norm Smith, this year he struggled to get a kick (under an injury cloud i know, but he still played so imo is judged the same).

AND just like Milne, the quality of opposition for Stevie J was tougher and they don't come any tougher than Bakes.

[samoht]

the quality of opponent is one big reason.

the other reason may be the added physical pressure of finals doesn't suit small forward pockets, it gets to them - unless they're tough and built like a tank - like a Leigh Matthews.

Armitage would have certainly been tougher than your average forward pocket small.

[kosifantutti23]

I don't really know if "going missing" is the correct term when he had 3 goal scoring opportunities. What is clear is that he missed these opportunities.

Within about five minutes in the second quarter he missed two very gettable shots and handed one off to Mini who also missed. When you play in his position there is a fine line between being a champ and a chump.

[samoht]

Within about five minutes in the second quarter he missed two very gettable shots and handed one off to Mini who also missed. When you play in his position there is a fine line between being a champ and a chump.

But it could be ..

When you play in his position - small forward pocket - the fine line between being a champ and chump may be the same fine line between playing home and away(when a good small forward pocket kicks 2 goals on average) and finals (when they either go missing or start missing as the intimidatory physical pressure gets to them - either physically and/or mentally).

[Milan Faletic]

I think the 22 home and away rounds next year may sort out a lot of issues. RL might be less receptive to reputation than he was in 2009. Not saying that he wasn't playing the guys on merit. Zac is testament to a guy who just played well and forced his way in to the side. However, there were certain players who may have been selected on experience, particularly Finals experience. I think this year, a few of those players may be considered more on form than GF or Finals experience, and some younger guys will rise.

[Bernard Shakey]

I don't really know if "going missing" is the correct term when he had 3 goal scoring opportunities. What is clear is that he missed these opportunities.

Within about five minutes in the second quarter he missed two very gettable shots and handed one off to Mini who also missed. When you play in his position there is a fine line between being a champ and a chump.

Your namesake was also a chump on the day.

[Mr Magic]

But looking past the GF - the point may be, good as he is during the home and away - he along with other good forward pocket smalls simply don't perform in finals.

How many finals has Milne played in and how many goals has he kicked ?
-they are the cold hard facts.

Maybe the pressure to perform in a final did get to him mentally and he missed 3 opportunities he would have normally kicked - but it's exactly the same result and probably stems from the intimidating physical pressure small forward pockets buckle under in finals.

There could be a lesson to be learnt here and maybe in hindsight we should have given someone slightly bigger a chance to play forward pocket in the grand final.

Why not Armitage ?- he's slightly bigger, might handle the physical pressure better and would have provided the right mix in our forward line - and has shown he can kick goals.

But maybe the 'other part' of our small forwards gameplan finds him 'wanting' currently?

Yes a small foreward needs to kick goals but it would appear that our gameplan also requires the small forwards to apply immense 'frontal pressure'.

IMHO, Armitage lost his position in the team late in the season (after the NM loss) becasue of his inablilty to adequately handle the 'frontal pressure' part of the gameplan.

It's probably part of the reason he wasn't played in the finals as a small forward?

[PJ]

Armitage would have certainly been tougher than your average forward pocket small.

So why wasn't he played there during the season?

Milne will get you 50 goals a year.

He may push into the best 22 next year (Ball movement) and yes he could spend some time there but i doubt he'll be used as forward pocket on a consistent basis. At present we need to find more goals - losing the number 2 goal scorer won't get you there.

[Enrico_Misso]

Apparantly Milne is a distant relative of Graham Hick

[SainterK]

It's a hard one, there were many games in the year where he was rock solid...who exactly is busting down the door to take his spot?

[Milton66]

Apparantly Milne is a distant relative of Graham Hick

Nice work EM

[meher baba]

Even the best players in any sport have off days: particularly in high pressure situations.

The combination of Milne, Schneider and McQualter (the "Midget Army" as someone dubbed them) was one of our greatest strengths through the season.

On GF day, they did their job in open play but collectively failed to convert their gettable shots on goal. Why? A little bit because of conditions (they kicked most of their goals under the roof at the Docklands) and mostly because of the pressure of the big occasion.

The three of them are proven performers. Under the Lyon game plan, you ideally want to have three players of this type in the forward line. They are the three best we have. Armo is a good player, but should be playing in the middle IMO.

So, come GF day next year - if we make it and all three are fit - I fully expect to see Milne, Scheider and McQualter run out onto the ground for us again.

[aussiejones]

I would hate to see the three blamed in any way .

It is a puzzle as to why we couldnt have got a better return.

They must relive the gf in their own minds , and thats enough pressure .

[samoht]

Even the best players in any sport have off days:

Under the Lyon game plan, you ideally want to have three players of this type in the forward line.
So, come GF day next year - if we make it and all three are fit - I fully expect to see Milne, Scheider and McQualter run out onto the ground for us again.

I just think the forward line is overloaded with 3 smalls... they get outbustled in finals in the confines of the forward line.

We could do with a mid size body in there and lose a small, especially in the finals - for balance and to add much needed grunt.

I'm not criticising Milne - all good small forward pockets go missing in finals - and I'd be surprised if Milne's kicked more than 1 goal /final, good as he is.

[stinger]

Stevie J played a blinder in the GF = NOT.

Thing is about finals is that the quality of one's opponent is likely to be better too.


However with Milne, Schneider and Mini...asa group they all cumulatively got in enough positions and won enough ball to get a goodly number of shots on goal. They just kicked poorly..which is vital of course.


That is not to say thata medium forward instead of one of small would not be good..but in 2009 Gwilt and others were not good enough.

Lovett will provide another option to in 2010.

correct, correct correct ,correct...and... hope so....

[Milton66]

Forget Stevie J... Chapman was the one that killed us. Look at his size ffs.

Milne gets worked off the ball too easily, and so does Schneider to a lesser degree.

Milne's body size is his biggest hinderance IMO.

Great skills, great work rate.. just too bloody small, and therefore very one-dimensional.

We need a player in the Chapman mould.

Schneider can effectively take Milne's place, but we need someone to take Scheider's place. Preferably a skilled mid, rather than a "lead up" like BJ.

Will Lovett release some one to do that?

[To the top]

To me the concerning comment is that all forward pockets/small forwards go missing in finals, and then questioning the individual player.

There are several comments being made and the one I would pick up on is that we are playing a specialist player who does not bring the required flexibility to the team.

I have not been a supporter of Milne in the side because his midset, to me, has been that his sole responsbility is to kick 2 goals a game, which could mean as little as touching the ball twice.

I do admit that toward the end of last season and during much of this season Milne has attempted to bring a defensive component to his game - but still we required cover - hence McQualter playing as a defensive orientated small forward.

Then we had Schnieder.

Too much resource was therefore directed at Milne's defensive deficiencies.

It cost us another player. At the end of the day it was shown that we can not afford that luxury.

Puts too much pressure on Riewoldt and Koschitzke.

The problem Milne has is not finals per se - it is coming up against stronger teams with greater depth and able to match Milne on a bigger and stronger defensive body which Milne can not counter because he has no defining leg speed and, with a bigger bodied opponent, no ability to hold/out position to mark nor to get in behind his opponent.

He has to play football - not fancy, illusionist games of now you see him, now you don't. Gee, he has just kicked a goal.

He becomes purely an opportunist awaiting a sniff - but is then too closely marked to capitalise.

With Lovett recruited one small forward goes.

Steven will commence his AFL career in the forward line (so to compare him with Clarke is not correct - Clarke has done his apprenticeship at the other end readying for the mid-field) and Schnieder will continue to get a game because he is worth one but needs to lift fitness.

Milne will be 30 next season I think - and he will struggle for a game.

To be seduced by him kicking 4 or 5 against weaker opposition will be folly and detrimental to the improvements we must make to improve on 2009.

For Milne to kick a goal the ball must be deep inside our F50 - so the definitive work has been completed.

We are then down to someone getting their hands on the pill and having a ping.

The targets will be Riewoldt, Koschitzke and hopefully a Lynch - with ground level opportunism, defensive pressure and finishing with Lovett, Schnieder and Steven - and the mid-field swarming the zone.

Armitage reminds me of Powell in terms of moving around the ground (and Powell was most useful) and is therefore an 'engine room' player not an opportunist/leg speed/tackling/evasive F50 player.

Armitage does know where the goals are better than Powell and can find the ball and score on the F50 arc.

[samoht]

to the top

I only mentioned Armitage as a possible replacement in the GF, because he's an obvious choice as a bigger bodied player (than Milne) - and this way we are losing one of the 3 forward smalls (too many smalls in my opinion) for a mid sized player and more grunt - something we lacked.

Armitage has the nice side step, is strong and tough- keeps his feet well and could have snagged a couple and provided a better balanced forward line in my opinion.