2010 Game Plan

[yipper]

However, I think you are seriously pushing the proverbial substance uphill in trying to argue that RL's match day coaching was a major problem in the GF.

His coaching in the final quarter was appalling - and a, if not the reason Geelong got on top.

Not giving Luke Ball more game time, and directing the team to bomb it long to the tall forwards was a monumental mistake.

Up until that point, he'd done fine. Nothing special in terms of tactics - but he prepared very well and had the players peaking.

Why the hell he changed tact like he did late in the game, I will never know. And I bet he still loses sleep over it too.


I don't think he's a bad game day coach, but decisions like this when the heat is on, and the consistent over reliance on Roo make me believe that he struggles when the pressure is on, and doesn't have the nouse to make the right calls. Sometimes, the right call is to trust what you've already put in place.
This was exactly what he should have done in the GF.

If Lyon had stuck with what he had been doing for the first three quarters, we would have lost the game by a lot more. He did the right thing by changing his tactics: it was a "roll of the dice" as the cliche goes.

We were all but finished by 3/4 time. The players had thrown everything they had at the Cats, and - if we had taken even half of our gettable goals-scoring opportunities (and if the parents of a certain goal umpire had known more about contraception a few decades ago) - we would have been 3-4 goals ahead and better than even money to win.

As it turned out, we were all but finished. 7 points was never going to be enough of a lead given that the Cats were rampaging home and we were battered and bruised and exhausted.

So what did Lyon do? He took the emphasis off winning the midfield battle, where we were starting to get slaughtered and as likely as not to turn the ball over and concede quick goals. He decided to try to get a quick goal or two from moving the ball forward quickly. Hence the use of an injured BJ ahead of Ball.

And it almost came off: we were only a bounce of the ball or a favourable umpiring decision away from at least a draw and a replay.

I thought he had a good GF day. I thought he won the tactical battle against a much more experienced AFL coach. He put our team in a winning position and they (in particular, Schneider, Milne, Dempster, etc. who missed the gettable shots on goal) fluffed it.

Remember, in the eyes of the AFL world, we went into the game as underdogs (quite rightly so IMO: although I realise that this is a minority view on this forum). Geelong had the GF experience, they were spurred by the embarassment of losing in 2008, they had more big game players than us (once again, probably a controversial view on this forum, but a fact nevertheless). Not surprisingly, they held their nerve better than we did over the four quarters.

Lyon has absolutely nothing to be ashamed of about the 2009 season. He couldn't have done his job any better. And that assessment is coming from me: the guy who once tagged him "Barney the Dinosaur" and called for his sacking.

I sometimes find the level of idolisation of Lyon on this forum a bit stifling, but you need to get real: he is a terrific football coach.

Boy you are fast becoming the one of the few voices of reason and logic on here MB. I find your posts compulsory reading nowadays!!

[joffaboy]

However, I think you are seriously pushing the proverbial substance uphill in trying to argue that RL's match day coaching was a major problem in the GF.

His coaching in the final quarter was appalling - and a, if not the reason Geelong got on top.

Not giving Luke Ball more game time, and directing the team to bomb it long to the tall forwards was a monumental mistake.

Up until that point, he'd done fine. Nothing special in terms of tactics - but he prepared very well and had the players peaking.

Why the hell he changed tact like he did late in the game, I will never know. And I bet he still loses sleep over it too.


I don't think he's a bad game day coach, but decisions like this when the heat is on, and the consistent over reliance on Roo make me believe that he struggles when the pressure is on, and doesn't have the nouse to make the right calls. Sometimes, the right call is to trust what you've already put in place.
This was exactly what he should have done in the GF.

If Lyon had stuck with what he had been doing for the first three quarters, we would have lost the game by a lot more. He did the right thing by changing his tactics: it was a "roll of the dice" as the cliche goes.

We were all but finished by 3/4 time. The players had thrown everything they had at the Cats, and - if we had taken even half of our gettable goals-scoring opportunities (and if the parents of a certain goal umpire had known more about contraception a few decades ago) - we would have been 3-4 goals ahead and better than even money to win.

As it turned out, we were all but finished. 7 points was never going to be enough of a lead given that the Cats were rampaging home and we were battered and bruised and exhausted.

So what did Lyon do? He took the emphasis off winning the midfield battle, where we were starting to get slaughtered and as likely as not to turn the ball over and concede quick goals. He decided to try to get a quick goal or two from moving the ball forward quickly. Hence the use of an injured BJ ahead of Ball.

And it almost came off: we were only a bounce of the ball or a favourable umpiring decision away from at least a draw and a replay.

I thought he had a good GF day. I thought he won the tactical battle against a much more experienced AFL coach. He put our team in a winning position and they (in particular, Schneider, Milne, Dempster, etc. who missed the gettable shots on goal) fluffed it.

Remember, in the eyes of the AFL world, we went into the game as underdogs (quite rightly so IMO: although I realise that this is a minority view on this forum). Geelong had the GF experience, they were spurred by the embarassment of losing in 2008, they had more big game players than us (once again, probably a controversial view on this forum, but a fact nevertheless). Not surprisingly, they held their nerve better than we did over the four quarters.

Lyon has absolutely nothing to be ashamed of about the 2009 season. He couldn't have done his job any better. And that assessment is coming from me: the guy who once tagged him "Barney the Dinosaur" and called for his sacking.

I sometimes find the level of idolisation of Lyon on this forum a bit stifling, but you need to get real: he is a terrific football coach.

Who are you and what have you done with meher baba?

[bergholt]

If you look back at the season, getting the ball in quickly to the 2 key fwds was what won us so many games.

that's just not true, sorry.

the temptation to bomb it long without thought gave us problems all year. we really didn't get a lot of goals by smashing it forward - hence the criticism of, for instance, jason gram's disposal into 50. he had the most inside 50s of anyone this year but a lot of them were bombed and not completely useful.

what won us games was being smart about getting it forward. if we were lucky enough to have a fast break we'd get it long quickly, but that was the minority of entries. most of the useful forward thrusts were based around a switch across half-back followed by a considered couple of passes ending up with a leading forward, despite the flooding from the opposition.

this is why for a large part of the year the coach was talking about composure and going forward smart, remember that?

[meher baba]

Boy you are fast becoming the one of the few voices of reason and logic on here MB. I find your posts compulsory reading nowadays!!

Thanks, yipper. I've always tried to call things as I see them, but I can also get a bit too fired up when I see arguments being put forward that I consider to be unfair and irrational. Most such arguments on here tend to relate to issues such as whether or not GT was a good coach, whether or not Raph can play, and whether or not the umpires and the whole AFL world are in a conspiracy against us.

If those topics don't come up, I tend to remain calm and logical. If they do, I tend to go through the following sequence of emotions.

[rodgerfox]

See Rodg, your credibilty takes a massive hit

Gee, that's a huge concern of mine.

[rodgerfox]

If Lyon had stuck with what he had been doing for the first three quarters, we would have lost the game by a lot more. He did the right thing by changing his tactics: it was a "roll of the dice" as the cliche goes.

Nonsense. Absolute nonsense.

If you're out on your feet, or nearly done, why would you open the game up?

We weren't out, or nearly done. I don't believe that for a second. We were the fitter team, and Geelong had 3 or 4 guys without match fitness.

Geelong have dominated the comp by setting up from defence. Bombing it in is exactly, precisely what they want teams to do. Have you ever seen a Geelong defender one-out in a contest in their D50? Very rarely. And when it is it's out wide. They never allow scoring from the 'hot spot' in their defence. They specialise in killing contests then setting up their attack from the D50.

It is the way they have dominated the comp for 3 years. They kicked 3 goals in 10 minutes when we opened the game up. They didn't open it up - we did. We consciously decided to open it up by kicking long into the F50.

This is exaclty what Geelong wanted.

We looked tired and vunerable in the last quarter, because Geelong are the superior running team. We had stifled this all day, by utilising our small forwards and not bombing it long. We were smart about moving forward - and not playing to their strengths.
Bar poor kicking - it was working.

To say that we would have lost by more is just rubbish. Absolute rubbish.

People on here on classics. Even the coach himself has acknowledged it as an error on his behalf. Yet some on here still refuse to acknowledge it.

It doesn't mean you hate him, or love GT, to admit that Lyon made a monumental howler in the most important game of the decade.

[rodgerfox]

If you look back at the season, getting the ball in quickly to the 2 key fwds was what won us so many games. So as far as I can see, he made the right call in trusting what he had already put in place.

A couple of things...

No it didn't.
When we scored through midfielders and small forwards, we were far, far more dangerous.

Secondly, we successfuly found other avenues to goal on GF day. So successfully, that we were in front and should have been on front by alot more.

Thirdly, against Geelong it is suicide to try to get a winning score, let alone a goal by kicing long to the hot spot and expecting to outmark Harley, Scarlett, Taylor, their ruck and Milburn. They just don't let it happen.
My view - he saw Gardiner do it under the roof in R13, he'd relied on Roo to win the Collingwood and Bulldogs finals for us, so he tried to roll the dice one more time.
And clearly, I cannot see how this can be argued - he got it very wrong.

And if you are going to try it, don't do it on a wet day when tall forwards can't hold the nut.

[SainterK]

I think people underate Geelong, and their mindset to come back. Their last quarter surge was when their midfield started to dominate...

Of course I realise that Lyon acknowldged that we went "bomby" but I am not sure if it was a coaching directive, or perhaps a lack of composure by the players?

Our lack of composure was key all day, working in our favour when the boys attacked the ball almost ferociously the first few quarters, worked against us when lining up for our shot on goals, and it was probably the biggest factor in the last quarter.

I am already excited about 2010, the experience of the grand final will be instrumental in next years campaign. Bring it on!

PS - You either think he is a good game day coach, or you don't

[SainterK]

The game plan is sound - but Lyon's 'game day' coaching is a big concern.

In what way Roger? I rate him as one of the best game day coaches in the game. Don't say he was outcoached on GF day either b/c he wasn't. WE just didn't kick straight and had control of the game for 3 quarters.

I don't think he's a good game day coach.

I think he's an excellent preparer for game day. He knows the opposition inside and out, and rarely lets someone slip under our guard.

He's probably the best coach in terms of preparation, in the comp.

But on game day, the only tactic he seems to have is 'kick it to Roo'. It worked for most of the year, but not when it counted. And it was never going to work in the GF, never. My biggest fear leading into that game was that he'd play that card. He panicked and did.

I still can't get past that.

I haven't seen anything 'brilliant' on game day from Lyon.

However, I think you are seriously pushing the proverbial substance uphill in trying to argue that RL's match day coaching was a major problem in the GF.

His coaching in the final quarter was appalling - and a, if not the reason Geelong got on top.

Not giving Luke Ball more game time, and directing the team to bomb it long to the tall forwards was a monumental mistake.

Up until that point, he'd done fine. Nothing special in terms of tactics - but he prepared very well and had the players peaking.

Why the hell he changed tact like he did late in the game, I will never know. And I bet he still loses sleep over it too.

I don't think he's a bad game day coach, but decisions like this when the heat is on, and the consistent over reliance on Roo make me believe that he struggles when the pressure is on, and doesn't have the nouse to make the right calls. Sometimes, the right call is to trust what you've already put in place.
This was exactly what he should have done in the GF.

[saintsRrising]

Who are you and what have you done with meher baba?

LOL..I find myseld thinking the same thing.

I have greatly enjoyed Meherbaba's posts in a number of threads of late.

[meher baba]

Who are you and what have you done with meher baba?

LOL..I find myseld thinking the same thing.

I have greatly enjoyed Meherbaba's posts in a number of threads of late.

Oh dear, all this positive feedback is worrying me.

I'd better go and take a long, hard look at myself in the big hall of mirrors..............

[joffaboy]

Who are you and what have you done with meher baba?

LOL..I find myseld thinking the same thing.

I have greatly enjoyed Meherbaba's posts in a number of threads of late.

Oh dear, all this positive feedback is worrying me.

I'd better go and take a long, hard look at myself in the big hall of mirrors..............

yes - what is this forum unless we can rubbish and bag mb???

Stop spoiling it for the rest of us mb

[rodgerfox]

PS - You either think he is a good game day coach, or you don't

Ahh of course, the ineptitude of the average footy follower and forum poster to grasp the concept of neither black or white.

Just because I don't think he's good, doesn't necessarily mean I think he's bad.

He's a pass - certainly not a disaster, but absolutely no genius. What I see as a concern is that he has shown to fall back on the 'kick it to Roo' way out a few times when it got tough.

He doesn't seem to have much up his sleeve apart form that.

Notably, during this year's finals series.

All year I commented on this being a dangerous trap to fall into. I just thought he was smart enough to not try to use it against the Cats in a wet GF when we are in front and in control of the match.

[markp]

St Kilda coach Ross Lyon has capped off a brilliant year by being named the AFL Coaches Association's (AFLCA) Senior Coach of the Year.

Voted by his peers, Lyon took out the honour in just his third year in the position.

I mean really... "he's a pass"

rodgerfox = pathological troll.

[SainterK]

I am pointing out that you either think he is a good "game day" coach or you don't, not if you think he is a good coach overall...

You were the one to point out to me, that the two are very different?

[rodgerfox]

I am pointing out that you either think he is a good "game day" coach or you don't, not if you think he is a good coach overall...

You were the one to point out to me, that the two are very different?

Sorry, you've lost me there.

Not sure what you mean.

[rodgerfox]

St Kilda coach Ross Lyon has capped off a brilliant year by being named the AFL Coaches Association's (AFLCA) Senior Coach of the Year.

Voted by his peers, Lyon took out the honour in just his third year in the position.

I mean really... "he's a pass"

rodgerfox = pathological troll.

Anything to add? Or just going to stand on the sidelines taking swipes as per usual?

What suggests he's anything better than a 'pass' match day coach?

[SainterK]

I am pointing out that you either think he is a good "game day" coach or you don't, not if you think he is a good coach overall...

You were the one to point out to me, that the two are very different?

Sorry, you've lost me there.

Not sure what you mean.

I'm afraid I am the one that is not understanding, I am really trying to though...

You told me that "game day" coaching was different to the other aspects of coaching, didn't you?

I simply asked if you thought he was a good "game day" coach or not, not whether you thought he was a good coach overall.

[markp]

St Kilda coach Ross Lyon has capped off a brilliant year by being named the AFL Coaches Association's (AFLCA) Senior Coach of the Year.

Voted by his peers, Lyon took out the honour in just his third year in the position.

I mean really... "he's a pass"

rodgerfox = pathological troll.

Anything to add? Or just going to stand on the sidelines taking swipes as per usual?

What suggests he's anything better than a 'pass' match day coach?

A girlfriend of mine used to work in a fancy ladies shoe shop, and every once in a while guys would ring up and want a random high heel shoe described in detail to them over the phone... while they quietly got off.

Sadly, if the girl was new it could take a while before she realised what was going on... as one of the creepy caller's goals was to drag it out for as long as possible, and thus heighten his arousal.

You're like that.

[rodgerfox]

I'm afraid I am the one that is not understanding, I am really trying to though...

You told me that "game day" coaching was different to the other aspects of coaching, didn't you?

Yes, it is very different.

I simply asked if you thought he was a good "game day" coach or not, not whether you thought he was a good coach overall.

He's an Ok game day coach. His record suggests this.

From what I saw in the finals though, it's a certainly not a strength, and he's not a match winner in this regard.

[yipper]

So what's the point of this thread then?? You want to the club to sack Lyon??

Your opinion up against the likes of Parkin, Matthews, Sheedy, Laidley, Jeans and quite a few others who tell us Lyon is a superb coach both on match day and during the week?? Hmmm - reckon I will side with the blokes who know a bit about the caper!! AFL coach of the year 2009 - Ross Lyon. As voted on by his peers.

[SainterK]

I'm afraid I am the one that is not understanding, I am really trying to though...

You told me that "game day" coaching was different to the other aspects of coaching, didn't you?

Yes, it is very different.

I simply asked if you thought he was a good "game day" coach or not, not whether you thought he was a good coach overall.

He's an Ok game day coach. His record suggests this.

From what I saw in the finals though, it's a certainly not a strength, and he's not a match winner in this regard.

No, actually you said the following....and that's it from me, I am dizzy from spinning in circles!

[/quote]

I don't think he's a good game day coach.

I think he's an excellent preparer for game day. He knows the opposition inside and out, and rarely lets someone slip under our guard.

He's probably the best coach in terms of preparation, in the comp.

But on game day, the only tactic he seems to have is 'kick it to Roo'. It worked for most of the year, but not when it counted. And it was never going to work in the GF, never. My biggest fear leading into that game was that he'd play that card. He panicked and did.

I still can't get past that.

I haven't seen anything 'brilliant' on game day from Lyon.[/quote]

[rodgerfox]

So what's the point of this thread then?? You want to the club to sack Lyon??

Baffled how you came to that conclusion.

Not surprised, but baffling nonetheless.

Your opinion up against the likes of Parkin, Matthews, Sheedy, Laidley, Jeans and quite a few others who tell us Lyon is a superb coach both on match day and during the week?? Hmmm - reckon I will side with the blokes who know a bit about the caper!! AFL coach of the year 2009 - Ross Lyon. As voted on by his peers.

He's a great preparer. I just don't think he's a great match day coach.

If you can find one single coach that these guys have ever publicly said 'isn't a good match day coach' then I'll see your point.

Otherwise, it's laughable that you lap up what footy media personalities say about each other in the papers each week.

He deserves to be coach of the year.

And Ablett deserves to player of the year - but that doesn't mean is he perfect in every facet.

[rodgerfox]

That's it from me, I am dizzy from spinning in circles...

That's Ok, without playing or coaching experience, these footy basics can be difficult to grasp sometimes.

[SainterK]

That's it from me, I am dizzy from spinning in circles...

That's Ok, without playing or coaching experience, these footy basics can be difficult to grasp sometimes.

Oh dear.

Sorry. I forgot where I was.

I love Rogerfox. He is perfect.