The way contract offer withdrawn - Ball

[Eastern]

It appears to me that the "Contract Offer" was withdrawn AFTER Ross and other St Kilda officials spoke to Luke at Etihad Stadium on Friday (around noon).

We do know that meeting lasted around 20 minutes but we don't know what was said. There must have been something that triggered this and we will probably NEVER know. Time to move on !!

[barks4eva]

Who was the dingbat that put him on $600,000 to begin with?

Leaving aside the fact that Luke Ball was overpaid on the output he delivered while commanding big bucks and it appears from the outside he cracked the sulks a bit, when his new contract offer was for a very fair $350,000 which is absolutely necessary with salary cap restraints and the need to reward better performing players, ( where did Ball finish in the B&F, did he crack the top 15? ), the real issue here is, who is the numbnut who signed him up on $600,000 to begin with, seriously I mean FAIR DINKUM, who was this goofball?

Surely it's obvious to any perspicacious individual that the previous contract was eventually going to run out of petrol from the get go!

[saint75]

It appears to me that the "Contract Offer" was withdrawn AFTER Ross and other St Kilda officials spoke to Luke at Etihad Stadium on Friday (around noon).

We do know that meeting lasted around 20 minutes but we don't know what was said. There must have been something that triggered this and we will probably NEVER know. Time to move on !!

I would be very surprised if the contract was still on the table right up until Friday. It would have been pulled IMO the moment he stated that he was seeking a trade. No reason to leave a contract on the table if a player has clearly stated they wish to be moved on. No fact or rumour behind this, it is just my opinion.

[saintspremiers]

Who was the dingbat that put him on $600,000 to begin with?

Dunno, can anyone help??

(is Bally the next GT? Have we finally found a replacement!!)

[saint75]

Who was the dingbat that put him on $600,000 to begin with?

Dunno, can anyone help??

(is Bally the next GT? Have we finally found a replacement!!)

Apparently the $600K he received this year was because the contract was 'back ended', no one is actually sure of what the real figures were.

Speaking (or hinting) of GT, I had completely forgotten about him throughout this entire saga. God help us when he decides to chime in on the discussion somewhere down the line (which is bound to happen). Please let him keep his mouth shut for once..........

[plugger66]

Who was the dingbat that put him on $600,000 to begin with?

Dunno, can anyone help??

(is Bally the next GT? Have we finally found a replacement!!)

Apparently the $600K he received this year was because the contract was 'back ended', no one is actually sure of what the real figures were.

Speaking (or hinting) of GT, I had completely forgotten about him throughout this entire saga. God help us when he decides to chime in on the discussion somewhere down the line (which is bound to happen). Please let him keep his mouth shut for once..........

Is it only us on here who can have an opinion?

[saint75]

Who was the dingbat that put him on $600,000 to begin with?

Dunno, can anyone help??

(is Bally the next GT? Have we finally found a replacement!!)

Apparently the $600K he received this year was because the contract was 'back ended', no one is actually sure of what the real figures were.

Speaking (or hinting) of GT, I had completely forgotten about him throughout this entire saga. God help us when he decides to chime in on the discussion somewhere down the line (which is bound to happen). Please let him keep his mouth shut for once..........

Is it only us on here who can have an opinion?

Not at all. Everyone seems to have chimed in with an opinion and to be honest, our opinions on here make no dent in the media. We are all just venting to make ourselves 'feel better' and to try and understand what in the hell is going on.

GT's comments will be picked up that quickly (dependent on whether or not they are favourable to Ball or to St Kilda) due to his past issues with the previous administration. They media will run with them for days. Actually, as I was typing this, it occurred to me that if we do hear GT's opinions publicly, it will once and for all settle the debate as to whether GT truly loves the St Kilda Football Club or is more concerned with individual players.

Anyhoo, carry on.

[SainterK]

It appears to me that the "Contract Offer" was withdrawn AFTER Ross and other St Kilda officials spoke to Luke at Etihad Stadium on Friday (around noon).

We do know that meeting lasted around 20 minutes but we don't know what was said. There must have been something that triggered this and we will probably NEVER know. Time to move on !!

I'd say it was more likely it was withdrawn when he said I want to leave...

[Spinner]

Does anyone else think RL could have handled the interview immediately after walking out of discussion room just after2pm yesterday.

In relation to the 3 year contract being recinded etc

Might it have been better to say the list management dept now that trading has been completed will be reviewing player contracts etc

The MEDIA in many articles/news and talkback today have really highlighted the withdrawal and the impact that would be having on LB and surrounding support

just seems to come across reflecting the club poorly

On another note pisses me off how the media making us out as the villan in the non trade........

Coll made promises (I pressume) to get him........when jolly became available he became the focus (and used the draft 14 pick that would have clinched the ball trade)

Like picking the puppy in the window and just as you about to leave with it it is put back because the kid picks the one in the next window.

How stupid do we look as an organisation to leave a contract on the table that was clearly not good enough to begin with....

I thought it had to be a given.

Who said it wasn't good enough?
Luke Ball's manager.
The same manager who now claims St Kilda's offer was more than Collingwood's.

You can't have it both ways.

Correct.

Luke Ball didn't sign the contract on offer since June. Therefore, not an adequate contract for whatever reason in the perspective of Luke.

Don't think your on the intended wavelength here, but having not signed the current offer would suggest that it wasn't what Luke wanted regardless of other factors.

We now go away and re-negotiate - Whether the offer ends up consisting of the same characteristics as the first might eventuate. But it needs to be re-assessed, it needs to be re-considered and it needs to be re-negotiated.

Much like what the club seems to be in the process of doing.

[Spinner]

bottom line

Who gives a rats whether we look like the bad guys - time we had this rep permanently - fear St.Kilda

St.Kilda got their man - A Lovett in trade

Ball - gets to think about himself, his manager and how he wants to end his career

Overall good outcome A+

Too right!

Geelong offered Essendon their first pick last year and was knocked back, Lovett just played his best season to date, and we grabbed him with the same offer Geelong did last year.

A Great win!

Im pretty sure Geelong didn't offer their first pick - In fact by memory it was a dispute between Geelong offering a third, and Essendon requesting a second rounder. Feel free to correct me if that was not the case thou....

I believe he was underpriced last year - and obviously overpriced a little this year....But there was competition (Bris and Port) so if thats what it took to secure a targeted player, then im extremely happy with that.

[Wigsy]

Didn't Ball win a B&F prior to the last contract or was it after? Perhaps it was, but it almost sounds like from most media sources that this guy has never been able to play.

Sounds like he was overrated in the first place if that is the case. Like I've said elsewhere, I'm still highly confused by all of this. Sounds like we're talking about some borderline player that can barely play. I recall some B Grade hack ripping the ball from a clutch of players, swivelling and hitting a guy on the chest 30m away in a GF no less.

Players CAN have off years. Fair enough that he's hardly been at the top of his game in recent times, but surely surely we have a little bit of forward projection. We all know that he's been hit by injury issues, but he looked to have freed up in 2009. He was just being beaten to the ball by a hungry group including some reasonable types called Hayes, Dal Santo, and Montagna.

Still confused.

[rodgerfox]

The club offered him a contract which they thought was fair and reasonable.

That doesn't mean that it was.

Clearly.

And clearly, it wouldn't have been.


We aren't saints here, pardon the pun.

There is a clear precedent of not respecting dudes that have been at the club prior to Lyon arriving.

He loves his own guys, but doesn't rate some others that were there prior. Goose, Max and Ball and obvious examples.

Whereas the dudes he has brought to the club, or specifically kept at the club, appear to be in favour.

I have no issue with this (although I think Lyon has got it wrong several times with selection and recruitment) as long as we keep winning.


But please let's not get high and mightly and think our club is doing anyone favours. We aren't.

We're being pricks I think.

And again, who cares if we're winning?

[saint66au]

He loves his own guys, but doesn't rate some others that were there prior. Goose, Max and Ball and obvious examples.

Just a tiny tiny generalisation right there

If he keeps getting us to GF's he can rate anyone he likes quite frankly..thats his job as senior coach and hes way more qualified than you or me to make those calls

You need to put "In my opinion" in your posts a whole lot more and less of "clearly" and "obviously" and "anyone can see".

[satchmo]

There is a clear precedent of not respecting dudes that have been at the club prior to Lyon arriving.

He loves his own guys, but doesn't rate some others that were there prior. Goose, Max and Ball and obvious examples.

Whereas the dudes he has brought to the club, or specifically kept at the club, appear to be in favour.

This would be the case with a change of coach at any club though. You always lose a few players, and there are always a few that the previous coach didn't rate too highly that step up with the opportunity to impress someone new.

From the supporters angle:- You aren't respecting our heroes.
From the coach's angle:- Prove yourself, reputation isn't enough.

Since Adam was a boy.

[Milton66]

There is a clear precedent of not respecting dudes that have been at the club prior to Lyon arriving.

He loves his own guys, but doesn't rate some others that were there prior. Goose, Max and Ball and obvious examples.

Whereas the dudes he has brought to the club, or specifically kept at the club, appear to be in favour.

This would be the case with a change of coach at any club though. You always lose a few players, and there are always a few that the previous coach didn't rate too highly that step up with the opportunity to impress someone new.

From the supporters angle:- You aren't respecting our heroes.
From the coach's angle:- Prove yourself, reputation isn't enough.

Since Adam was a boy.

Yeah, but... why wouldn't you love your guys considering that you recruited them in the first place because they suit your brand of footy?

The downside is that you get rid off players who can't... regardles of reputation or name. That's life in AFL and all codes of sport.

I mean, you don't just recruit a player because you are infatuated by them.

Clearly there have been players who are unsuited to his requirements... and some like Mini and Dal have reinvented themselves.

[satchmo]

There is a clear precedent of not respecting dudes that have been at the club prior to Lyon arriving.

He loves his own guys, but doesn't rate some others that were there prior. Goose, Max and Ball and obvious examples.

Whereas the dudes he has brought to the club, or specifically kept at the club, appear to be in favour.

This would be the case with a change of coach at any club though. You always lose a few players, and there are always a few that the previous coach didn't rate too highly that step up with the opportunity to impress someone new.

From the supporters angle:- You aren't respecting our heroes.
From the coach's angle:- Prove yourself, reputation isn't enough.

Since Adam was a boy.

Yeah, but... why wouldn't you love your guys considering that you recruited them in the first place because they suit your brand of footy?

The downside is that you get rid off players who can't... regardles of reputation or name. That's life in AFL and all codes of sport.

I mean, you don't just recruit a player because you are infatuated by them.

Clearly there have been players who are unsuited to his requirements... and some like Mini and Dal have reinvented themselves.

Precactly!

[Milton66]

There is a clear precedent of not respecting dudes that have been at the club prior to Lyon arriving.

He loves his own guys, but doesn't rate some others that were there prior. Goose, Max and Ball and obvious examples.

Whereas the dudes he has brought to the club, or specifically kept at the club, appear to be in favour.

This would be the case with a change of coach at any club though. You always lose a few players, and there are always a few that the previous coach didn't rate too highly that step up with the opportunity to impress someone new.

From the supporters angle:- You aren't respecting our heroes.
From the coach's angle:- Prove yourself, reputation isn't enough.

Since Adam was a boy.

Yeah, but... why wouldn't you love your guys considering that you recruited them in the first place because they suit your brand of footy?

The downside is that you get rid off players who can't... regardles of reputation or name. That's life in AFL and all codes of sport.

I mean, you don't just recruit a player because you are infatuated by them.

Clearly there have been players who are unsuited to his requirements... and some like Mini and Dal have reinvented themselves.

Precactly!

Adam sends his regards.

[markp]

Yup, the shallow veneer of professionalism surrounding Lyon is just a cheap facade which barely covers the fact that he is running the place like his own personal fiefdom, and he is removing certain 'out of favour' players like a petulant teen deleting friends on facebook.

He must be stopped.

[satchmo]

Adam sends his regards.

Tell him that Eve says hi!

[satchmo]

Yup, the shallow veneer of professionalism surrounding Lyon is just a cheap facade which barely covers the fact that he is running the place like his own personal fiefdom, and he is removing certain 'out of favour' players like a petulant teen deleting friends on facebook.

He must be stopped.

I think that Ross absolutely nailed it. You wouldn't want to be the one standing between him and the premiership!

[Milton66]

Adam sends his regards.

Tell him that Eve says hi!

Mentioned something about returning his ribs...

[joffaboy]

There is a clear precedent of not respecting dudes that have been at the club prior to Lyon arriving.

Wow - huge statement.

Roo
Kosi
Lenny
Dal
Milne
Blake
Gilbert
Joey
bj
Sam Fisher
Baker

off the top of my head - all seem to be pretty well respected by the coach.

Weren't they all there prior to RL coming on board?

[Dis Believer]

Clearly.

And clearly, it wouldn't have been.

We aren't saints here, pardon the pun.
There is a clear precedent of not respecting dudes that have been at the club prior to Lyon arriving.
He loves his own guys, but doesn't rate some others that were there prior. Goose, Max and Ball and obvious examples.
Whereas the dudes he has brought to the club, or specifically kept at the club, appear to be in favour.
I have no issue with this (although I think Lyon has got it wrong several times with selection and recruitment) as long as we keep winning.

But please let's not get high and mightly and think our club is doing anyone favours. We aren't.
We're being pricks I think.
And again, who cares if we're winning?

You're kidding, right? In three years the guy got us within 5 minutes of the elusive 2nd premiership that our club has been chasing for over 4 decades and you think he got some of his recruitment and selection wrong ???

I think your inadequacies are showing there ol' dodgy.

I hope he keeps on getting it "wrong" in your opinion then, because so far he has seemed to recruit specific to need, do great value trades (no pick 6 & 31 for a gumby ruckman) and has an eye on the future at the same time (lots of bottom age kids in the last draft with an eye on the compromised drafts coming up).

Other than the Ball saga this year, which clearly has more than just RL behind it, I can't think of too much he has done wrong, other than the initial tinkering required to his game plan to get it right. I don't think even the most naive of us would expect a first-timer to have it perfect from the get-go would they?

[Milton66]

Hmmmmm.

Well it's pretty obvious that Ross was in love with Bin Laden and instigated the 9/11 bombings... which in turn sowed the seeds for the global financial crisis, just to protect player that he recruited at the expense of Luke Ball.

Is it any wonder poor old Luke decided to leave?

I think Rodgerfox is on to something here.

[aussiejones]

The question is I believe ....given a coach inherits a list , then over time develops a game style .... some existing players will be suitable and some not. What is a coach to do ? alter his game plan to 'accomodate' the list ? or try to convert players to the style required by the game plan / style ?

Unless Ball could deliver as required , then he becomes surplus irrespective of his past place in the team and achievements.

Re the 3 yr contract offer . We dont know the terms , but obviously it reflected Ball's preceived value . An offer can be accepted until it is withdrawn .....this seems what happened. There is no obligation to re offer just cos Ball / Collingwood couldnt do the deal.

Much as I love Ball it seems he must go ....unless by some slight chance he can 'make up' and be accepted back !

I fear its too late ....... good luck Bally