What is Luke Ball's value?
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What is Luke Ball's value?
No interest during trade week, as someone mentioned in another thread this last week has shown where Collingwood rate him (second or third round pick, below Jolly, Goldsack, etc), and as far as I'm aware no other clubs showed any interest.
No doubt Ball personally would be feeling pretty awful right now.
But the question is, what is he really worth? In hindsight looking at the other trades this week, what would a suitable swap have been? And looking at next year, if he does decide to stay... what sort of contract is he worth now?
Is he in our best 22? And if so, why do we rate him so highly when the other teams clearly do not?
No doubt Ball personally would be feeling pretty awful right now.
But the question is, what is he really worth? In hindsight looking at the other trades this week, what would a suitable swap have been? And looking at next year, if he does decide to stay... what sort of contract is he worth now?
Is he in our best 22? And if so, why do we rate him so highly when the other teams clearly do not?
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luke ball is in our best 22.
in fact he is in my opinion in our best 10, 75% fit he's still in our best 22.
awesome player, awesome courage.
St Kilda tried to negotiate with Collingwood only in preference to Luke's wishes.
IMO we should have put him on the open market.
now we need our coach and management to negotiate to keep him and maintain his desire to put in a magnificent effort for st kilda like he did in the GF.
20 odd possessions in 50% game time.
his worth? definately in 300k to 450k p/a bracket.
in fact he is in my opinion in our best 10, 75% fit he's still in our best 22.
awesome player, awesome courage.
St Kilda tried to negotiate with Collingwood only in preference to Luke's wishes.
IMO we should have put him on the open market.
now we need our coach and management to negotiate to keep him and maintain his desire to put in a magnificent effort for st kilda like he did in the GF.
20 odd possessions in 50% game time.
his worth? definately in 300k to 450k p/a bracket.
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- Moccha
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Melbourne are f****** arseholes. If they rated him why didn't they make a play for him at draft time?Eastern wrote:The events of this week prove beyond any shaddow of doubt that;
Luke Ball is rated higher by St Kilda than he is by any other club in the AFL !!
A. Because they want something for nothing!
Another opportunity awaits!
He did not want to go onto the open market. He only wished to deal with Collingwood. Had he gone on the open market, this thread would be irrelevant as we would have found out what one of the other clubs were willing to pay. As his intentions were made perfectly clear, no other club bothered to seriously approach him. The PSD draft will be different though, especially as 15 other clubs have the opportunity to pick him up for nothing. He has really hurt his chances of being paid well anywhere else.Dan Warna wrote:luke ball is in our best 22.
in fact he is in my opinion in our best 10, 75% fit he's still in our best 22.
awesome player, awesome courage.
St Kilda tried to negotiate with Collingwood only in preference to Luke's wishes.
IMO we should have put him on the open market.
now we need our coach and management to negotiate to keep him and maintain his desire to put in a magnificent effort for st kilda like he did in the GF.
20 odd possessions in 50% game time.
his worth? definately in 300k to 450k p/a bracket.
If he was to stay at St Kilda, he would still be on around the $300K mark. They won't try to negotiate a contract for peanuts just because Luke had a temper tantrum. He will be given a deal that will reflect his value but it may not be for 3 year term. More likely 1 or 2 I would think.
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- mbogo
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I think he is rated - just an expensive player.
He has the rare commodity of being able to reliably obtain the pill in the middle under pressure and in finals - and give it to a runner. This is why none of us want him against us late next year.
I still do not get why the coach - nor no one else seemed to notice he might have been useful on the ground in the last quarter of the GF? Issues!
If he was on 600 then I spoze he is still worth 400+/-
Performance based contract ... with agreed measurables.
If I asked what another top 10 GF player was worth - what would you say?
What is the average salary anyway? Whats the new cap worth?
He has the rare commodity of being able to reliably obtain the pill in the middle under pressure and in finals - and give it to a runner. This is why none of us want him against us late next year.
I still do not get why the coach - nor no one else seemed to notice he might have been useful on the ground in the last quarter of the GF? Issues!
If he was on 600 then I spoze he is still worth 400+/-
Performance based contract ... with agreed measurables.
If I asked what another top 10 GF player was worth - what would you say?
What is the average salary anyway? Whats the new cap worth?
This is a team game and there is no room for individuals who think they are above walking through the fire.
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The events of this week prove nothing, except that Luke Ball only wanted to go to Collingwood.Eastern wrote:The events of this week prove beyond any shaddow of doubt that;
Luke Ball is rated higher by St Kilda than he is by any other club in the AFL !!
Without a shadow of a doubt he is rated highly by most clubs.
Old enough to repaint, but young enough to sell
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Fair or not, presently a bucket of steaming donkey turds would probably fetch a prettyreasonable approximation of LB's worth.
"The inches we need are everywhere around us. They're in every break in the game. Every minute, every second. On this team we fight for that inch. On this team we tear ourselves and everyone around us to pieces for that inch. We claw with our fingernails for that inch. Because we know when we add up all those inches that's gonna make the f***in' difference between winning and losing! Between living and dying!'
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I realised in the Melb R22 game for the first time, why Luke was dropped and didn't play more game time. The ball was coming down the members wing towards our forward line and Luke and his opponent were jogging towards where the ball was heading. He didn't try to demand the ball or lose his opponent. It was like he was heading towards where he thought the next stoppage would be. With his build, attributes and his first 3 years, he should be playing like Joel Selwood. Creating play and demanding the ball from his team-mates. His game against Essendon on the HFF was the same and he couldn't find the ball at all.
I was hoping a good pre-season could either build his endurance, or set up a change of role (tagger or small defender). I had thought that Luke would take the challenge due to his competitive nature and I was surprised that he sort of gave up.
His game time (especially in the GF) I put down to the fact that Dave Misson and team, didn't believe he had the endurance to run out more of a game. Ross probably regrets he didn't override them in the way he demanded BJ go back out with a broken collarbone. I didn't take his words to mean he didn't rate Luke high enough to put him back out there.
Collingwood rotate more than any team and this probably appealled to Luke as much as the game plan.
I was hoping a good pre-season could either build his endurance, or set up a change of role (tagger or small defender). I had thought that Luke would take the challenge due to his competitive nature and I was surprised that he sort of gave up.
His game time (especially in the GF) I put down to the fact that Dave Misson and team, didn't believe he had the endurance to run out more of a game. Ross probably regrets he didn't override them in the way he demanded BJ go back out with a broken collarbone. I didn't take his words to mean he didn't rate Luke high enough to put him back out there.
Collingwood rotate more than any team and this probably appealled to Luke as much as the game plan.
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Good points well madeGeorgeYoung27 wrote:I realised in the Melb R22 game for the first time, why Luke was dropped and didn't play more game time. The ball was coming down the members wing towards our forward line and Luke and his opponent were jogging towards where the ball was heading. He didn't try to demand the ball or lose his opponent. It was like he was heading towards where he thought the next stoppage would be. With his build, attributes and his first 3 years, he should be playing like Joel Selwood. Creating play and demanding the ball from his team-mates. His game against Essendon on the HFF was the same and he couldn't find the ball at all.
I was hoping a good pre-season could either build his endurance, or set up a change of role (tagger or small defender). I had thought that Luke would take the challenge due to his competitive nature and I was surprised that he sort of gave up.
His game time (especially in the GF) I put down to the fact that Dave Misson and team, didn't believe he had the endurance to run out more of a game. Ross probably regrets he didn't override them in the way he demanded BJ go back out with a broken collarbone. I didn't take his words to mean he didn't rate Luke high enough to put him back out there.
Collingwood rotate more than any team and this probably appealled to Luke as much as the game plan.
"The inches we need are everywhere around us. They're in every break in the game. Every minute, every second. On this team we fight for that inch. On this team we tear ourselves and everyone around us to pieces for that inch. We claw with our fingernails for that inch. Because we know when we add up all those inches that's gonna make the f***in' difference between winning and losing! Between living and dying!'
I reckon whatever was offered will drop, surely. There would have to be question marks over his attitude after he's come out and said he wants to leave.saint75 wrote:If he was to stay at St Kilda, he would still be on around the $300K mark. They won't try to negotiate a contract for peanuts just because Luke had a temper tantrum. He will be given a deal that will reflect his value but it may not be for 3 year term. More likely 1 or 2 I would think.
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- ace
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Luke's 3 year contract offer has been taken off the table because the net effect of the recruitment of Lovett and Peake and trading of X Clarke has reduced St Kilda's space under the salary cap.saint75 wrote:He did not want to go onto the open market. He only wished to deal with Collingwood. Had he gone on the open market, this thread would be irrelevant as we would have found out what one of the other clubs were willing to pay. As his intentions were made perfectly clear, no other club bothered to seriously approach him. The PSD draft will be different though, especially as 15 other clubs have the opportunity to pick him up for nothing. He has really hurt his chances of being paid well anywhere else.Dan Warna wrote:luke ball is in our best 22.
in fact he is in my opinion in our best 10, 75% fit he's still in our best 22.
awesome player, awesome courage.
St Kilda tried to negotiate with Collingwood only in preference to Luke's wishes.
IMO we should have put him on the open market.
now we need our coach and management to negotiate to keep him and maintain his desire to put in a magnificent effort for st kilda like he did in the GF.
20 odd possessions in 50% game time.
his worth? definately in 300k to 450k p/a bracket.
If he was to stay at St Kilda, he would still be on around the $300K mark. They won't try to negotiate a contract for peanuts just because Luke had a temper tantrum. He will be given a deal that will reflect his value but it may not be for 3 year term. More likely 1 or 2 I would think.
Luke will now be offered the scraps remaining, he will be offered less than before.
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I have question marks over the speech from RL "come and see me and I will move you on if you dont want to be here", why not take something for him? unless you think he will stay? I am very confused by all this.battye wrote:I reckon whatever was offered will drop, surely. There would have to be question marks over his attitude after he's come out and said he wants to leave.saint75 wrote:If he was to stay at St Kilda, he would still be on around the $300K mark. They won't try to negotiate a contract for peanuts just because Luke had a temper tantrum. He will be given a deal that will reflect his value but it may not be for 3 year term. More likely 1 or 2 I would think.
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To begin, I am an unashamed fan of Bally. To follow, I am a realist. We had to pay him $650K p.a., odd, in the latter part of his contract. It was signed in the days of Grant the Omnipotent.
And, GTO had much to do with playing all sorts of young fellas in places where they could not possibly have had a long term future. X is a classic example - he was 70 odd kgs in his first couple of years, yet GTO revelled in his extraordinary leaps, his bravado, his athleticism. Yet, he weighed about 70 kgs. He took hangers, took the game on and was burnt out by the time he was 21.
Luke Ball was ruined by his tit punching coach. Remember the SCG, Bally's head in bandages, Thomas slapping his tit. I was sitting at home thinking "good win, but how long can this last".
Now we have the consumate pro in charge. He has no group allegiances - you have to earn his respect. Who does he respect most? The Lendog. He loves him, and with damn good reason. Watch the aftermath of the GF. That's respect.
Lyon works by the numbers. You have to earn his rating. He is extraordinarily hard. There are few favourites.
Word from inside is Bally's biggest problem was his small tank. That's what worried them, and that's why his ground time was below 50%. What caused the small tank is open to conjecture.
Oh, and there's a rumour he f***ed up badly while at Sandy, but it's a rumour.
He won't play with us again.
And, GTO had much to do with playing all sorts of young fellas in places where they could not possibly have had a long term future. X is a classic example - he was 70 odd kgs in his first couple of years, yet GTO revelled in his extraordinary leaps, his bravado, his athleticism. Yet, he weighed about 70 kgs. He took hangers, took the game on and was burnt out by the time he was 21.
Luke Ball was ruined by his tit punching coach. Remember the SCG, Bally's head in bandages, Thomas slapping his tit. I was sitting at home thinking "good win, but how long can this last".
Now we have the consumate pro in charge. He has no group allegiances - you have to earn his respect. Who does he respect most? The Lendog. He loves him, and with damn good reason. Watch the aftermath of the GF. That's respect.
Lyon works by the numbers. You have to earn his rating. He is extraordinarily hard. There are few favourites.
Word from inside is Bally's biggest problem was his small tank. That's what worried them, and that's why his ground time was below 50%. What caused the small tank is open to conjecture.
Oh, and there's a rumour he f***ed up badly while at Sandy, but it's a rumour.
He won't play with us again.
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He can't run and he can't kick.
you need to be able to run and kick to be a successful AFL player in todays game.
He can tackle well though. It's not enough.
Other AFL teams knows he won't be great value.
God it's depressing how players careers can completely capitulate due to injuries. Feel really sorry for Ball.
you need to be able to run and kick to be a successful AFL player in todays game.
He can tackle well though. It's not enough.
Other AFL teams knows he won't be great value.
God it's depressing how players careers can completely capitulate due to injuries. Feel really sorry for Ball.
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$450K? You're kidding aren't you? They reckon half of Geelong's side are on $300 or less, despite many of them being dual-premiership players.Dan Warna wrote: his worth? definately in 300k to 450k p/a bracket.
Luke had a good GF (largely due to the fact the conditions suited him greatly, which they don't most weeks), yet we only deem him worthy of playing half a game each week and he's not getting any younger. And no-one was willing to offer more than pick 25 for him, which is like pick 35 in most drafts. How does that make him worth up to $450K, when most of our side are being paid much less?
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Ball shouldn't be too upset with the club if he was being paid a salary that is normally reserved for the top 2-3 players.
and the thing is he didn't have to bust his head open with Lyon (like he did under GT) to keep earning the big bickies - all he had to do is become more of an outside player occasionally and to provide some occasional run and spread - which would also help prolong his career.
He'll probably be paid half as much at Collingwood or the next club he's keen to go to and they'd probably be expecting the inside, head banging , career shortening game from him.
And whose fault is it but Balls if he's just a one dimensional inside player only and his body is giving up on him - we can appreciate his heroics but should we be feeling sorry for him , as he had plenty of time to develop an outside game as well.
Even GT would have preferred him kicking running goals from outside 50 occasionally instead of busting his head open - so I'm not blaming GT if Ball's one dimensional (inside player only) and his body is banged up.
and the thing is he didn't have to bust his head open with Lyon (like he did under GT) to keep earning the big bickies - all he had to do is become more of an outside player occasionally and to provide some occasional run and spread - which would also help prolong his career.
He'll probably be paid half as much at Collingwood or the next club he's keen to go to and they'd probably be expecting the inside, head banging , career shortening game from him.
And whose fault is it but Balls if he's just a one dimensional inside player only and his body is giving up on him - we can appreciate his heroics but should we be feeling sorry for him , as he had plenty of time to develop an outside game as well.
Even GT would have preferred him kicking running goals from outside 50 occasionally instead of busting his head open - so I'm not blaming GT if Ball's one dimensional (inside player only) and his body is banged up.
Last edited by samoht on Sat 10 Oct 2009 12:25pm, edited 3 times in total.
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