Another GT "Gem"... I agree 100%!

[stinger]

he's also a very good talent spotter.....

[Mr Magic]

he's also a very good talent spotter.....

Not sure about that one Stinger.

ONe could argue that injuries cruelled Brooks and Watts, so we will never know (and forever argue) over the relative merits of taking them.
McGough?
Guerra?
Ackland?
Gram - good get
and others I've managed to 'blank out'

were all taken instead of draft picks during his reign at the Club.

I still believe that Beveridge was responsible for the draft picks we selected and not Bundy.

So if he was responsible for selecting traded players (and I believe he was) then I think it is difficult to argue the case that he was successful in that area?

[stinger]

he's also a very good talent spotter.....

Not sure about that one Stinger.

ONe could argue that injuries cruelled Brooks and Watts, so we will never know (and forever argue) over the relative merits of taking them.
McGough?
Guerra?
Ackland?
Gram - good get
and others I've managed to 'blank out'

were all taken instead of draft picks during his reign at the Club.

I still believe that Beveridge was responsible for the draft picks we selected and not Bundy.

So if he was responsible for selecting traded players (and I believe he was) then I think it is difficult to argue the case that he was successful in that area?

i was only referring to a couple of young kids at port....he wasn't our recruiting guru.....

[Mr Magic]

he's also a very good talent spotter.....

Not sure about that one Stinger.

ONe could argue that injuries cruelled Brooks and Watts, so we will never know (and forever argue) over the relative merits of taking them.
McGough?
Guerra?
Ackland?
Gram - good get
and others I've managed to 'blank out'

were all taken instead of draft picks during his reign at the Club.

I still believe that Beveridge was responsible for the draft picks we selected and not Bundy.

So if he was responsible for selecting traded players (and I believe he was) then I think it is difficult to argue the case that he was successful in that area?

i was only referring to a couple of young kids at port....he wasn't our recruiting guru.....

Fair enough

[saintsRrising]

Here are two of the silliest things I have read on the forum since the Sack Lyon post.

(but I'm sure that Westaway played an important part), Lyon suddenly stepped up, made a statement by dropping Milne and Dal,

You really really REALLY cannot accept that Lyon is the one calling the shots can you???

Westaway did not decide to drop them...Lyon did and to suggest otherwise is just utter fantasy and foolishness

Westaway did however support Lyon as coach when the jackals were howling for him to be sacked.

and threw away the gameplan that said that players should play chipalotto .

Is your head in the sand???

They were being taught to set up play by switching the ball...and if under the pump to go backwards to reset before advancing again. Such tactics have been used in Soccer and Hockey for Donkeys years (and I certainly used to do it as boy playing hockey)....and when Ric Charleswoth started advising Freo it at last entered AFL football. Though Freo coached by Neeham did not have the cattle to enact it. But Roos and the Swans did. Now every team uses it.


You see this EVERY WEEK..so I do not know what games you are watching.

While you were calling for his head last year Lyon explain that the players were meant to be attacking more...but were not. You and your cohorts did not believe him...or the players who all backed him up in the media.

All that has happened is that now that the players are more practiced and committed to execute it better.

This relies on players running and spreading...to provide options.

With no run and spread ...no forward options are available...and hence the ball was overly chipped around.


Why do think Lyon has recently taken Ball to task for his lack of run and spread???

Because unless EVERY players does his part....the game plan falls apart.

[reincarnated]

Reincarnated asks Milton to pull his head in because he is of little use to his young family from behind bars.

[TimPekin'sDirtyGuernsey]

so we will never know (and forever argue)

What a novel idea and thought for this forum!!!!!!!!!!!

[Milton66]

Reincarnated asks Milton to pull his head in because he is of little use to his young family from behind bars.

Milton66 sincerely thx Reincarnated for his sage advice, and assures him that he wouldn't be so foolish as to jeapordies the future of the Monster clan because of random acts of testoserone on a forum. Cheers.

SRS, good points and explaine dbetter than I could have hoped for. Anyone who believes that players can flick the switch immediately, is kidding themselves. It was always going to take time.

Even Walls noted at the time thatit would take 2 years at least before we'd be ready for a tilt. How prophetic from a much maligned expert.

Lucky the admin and most supporters didn't give up so quickly and had the courage and patience to allow RL to grow into his job.

But I guess that denial of this helps justify one's position.

[The Fireman]

break through

[The Fireman]

I think I know where reincarnated lives.

[reincarnated]

Reincarnated asks Milton to pull his head in because he is of little use to his young family from behind bars.

Milton66 sincerely thx Reincarnated for his sage advice, and assures him that he wouldn't be so foolish as to jeapordies the future of the Monster clan because of random acts of testoserone on a forum. Cheers.

SRS, good points and explaine dbetter than I could have hoped for. Anyone who believes that players can flick the switch immediately, is kidding themselves. It was always going to take time.

Even Walls noted at the time thatit would take 2 years at least before we'd be ready for a tilt. How prophetic from a much maligned expert.

Lucky the admin and most supporters didn't give up so quickly and had the courage and patience to allow RL to grow into his job.

But I guess that denial of this helps justify one's position.

Reincarnated believes it to be obvious that we would not challenge and challenge sufficiently to be in the current position when Ross Lyon assumed charge. Although Eade made it to the Grand Final in his first year he had Tony Lockett at one end.

The St Kilda that Ross Lyon received could not play defensive and when Riewoldt had poor delivery or a poor match we would usually lose.

Reincarnated saw this and telephoned Ross to explain the concern. Ross agreed.

Subsequently Ross went about a crash course in defensive play to the squad. We looked unnatural, hindered and struggled to understand when to kick and when to hold off.

It was always going to take time, and two seasons of a few good wins coupled with a few utter stinkers have seen 2009 a damn good year.

However there is still plenty of work to be done. This year will be considered a waste by inside and outside of the 4 walls if we do not succeed ultimately. We now have a quality bunch of players that have the ability to go far and finally let us all relax drunkenly over summer knowing that we have done it.

[Milton66]

I think I know where reincarnated lives.

Really? Do tell.

[Shaggy]

SRS, good points and explaine dbetter than I could have hoped for. Anyone who believes that players can flick the switch immediately, is kidding themselves. It was always going to take time.

Even Walls noted at the time thatit would take 2 years at least before we'd be ready for a tilt. How prophetic from a much maligned expert.

To be fair the one at the time on Saintsational who was saying it would take years following the changeover of coach was Rodgerfox .

He was ridiculed by some (including the ones you are praising now ) because they thought/hoped at the time all it took was a change in coach .

[Milton66]

SRS, good points and explaine dbetter than I could have hoped for. Anyone who believes that players can flick the switch immediately, is kidding themselves. It was always going to take time.

Even Walls noted at the time thatit would take 2 years at least before we'd be ready for a tilt. How prophetic from a much maligned expert.

To be fair the one at the time on Saintsational who was saying it would take years following the changeover of coach was Rodgerfox .

He was ridiculed by some (including the ones you are praising now ) because they thought/hoped at the time all it took was a change in coach .

Well I wasn't around back then. If he did say that, then good for him, because I totally agree.

Much like Keating's recession comment, I'm not sure if some supporters took the club's comment that the new coach would help us go the next level literally and expected us to win in 07... or that the club knew all along that it would take a few years, but read it in such a way as to dampen the ensuing backlash.

Either way, Rodger was correct in his call.

[saintsRrising]

because they thought/hoped at the time all it took was a change in coach .

Can you actually detail who precisely you are talking about...and what they said?

Or are you going to just try smear by fabrication?

I am pulling you up as you have replied to a post that I am listed in...implying that I had stated such at the time.....which is patently untrue.


I know that it my case I wanted a change in coach...but I also wanted many other things which I clearly detailed at the time.

Indeed while some seem stuck on a GT vs Lyon focus including yourself the BIG picture and my argument at the time was that GT needed to go because he was not willing to embrace a modern football department structure.

A structure that your much lauded RF has consistently ridiculed.

Drain should have been hired when first offered to GT and GT's refusal has set the club back on where it should be.

Add to this other areas that I listed that needed addressing including rookies, player development, fractured relationship with our VFL affiliate..etc etc...


Lyon may well have had more success in his first year IF a lot had gone right (as I lsited at the time)...but that included aspects such as Hamill recovering from his crippling knew injury..

The reality was that there was a lot to rectify...and that is why change was required....and of which Lyon was just a part and not the totality.

[Shaggy]

because they thought/hoped at the time all it took was a change in coach .

Can you actually detail who precisely you are talking about...and what they said?

Or are you going to just try smear by fabrication?

[/b]

Fair enough there were certainly many against RF's views at the time. i must admit I thought you were one so I take it back.

[reincarnated]

I think I know where reincarnated lives.

So where does Reincarnated live??

Reincarnated thinks Toorak with his/her's gt's kind

[saintsRrising]

because they thought/hoped at the time all it took was a change in coach .

Can you actually detail who precisely you are talking about...and what they said?

Or are you going to just try smear by fabrication?

[/b]

Fair enough there were certainly many against RF's views at the time. i must admit I thought you were one so I take it back.

Thank you.

As to RF's views. Some I agree with and some not....both then and now.

[asiu]

wow , a lots been going on in here ... but to the most interesting bit first

As to RF's views. Some I agree with and some not....both then and now.

and here-in lays the charm of how these threads actually operate



finally we are getting somewhere ....go sainters

[rodgerfox]

History is being re-written a bit on this last page.


What we're seeing now on the field, is not what Lyon brought to the table 3 years ago.

I know it suits the 'blind Lyon followers' to think it is, and that he (and they) were right all along and all it needed was time to work.

But sadly, that isn't the case.

The mute President has pretty much said 2 things in his tenure. Both very, very significant things.

1) That if he had his way, the head coach at the Saints would have a 10 year tenure because we need stability

and

2) We need to adjust the way we're playing heading into 2009

These weren't off the cuff comments, these were both very clear messages.

Around this time, Ross Lyon also acknowledged that it wasn't working, and that basically he had it wrong and changed it.
The only people that think Lyon had it right from the start are the ones on here who wanted him caste in bronze and knighted as soon as he was appointed.

The funny thing about this entire 4 year saga that has brought SS to it's knees/made it the most interesting place on the Net, is that no-one has been correct.


I was wrong in that I knew due to the timing of the sacking, that it would set us back a few years. I knew whilst being 'set back' that we still had the talent to play finals, but I didn't think we'd be a true contender until the age of our list balanced out. I thought this would happen next year.

I was spot on that Lyon wasn't coaching well early - many were. He wasn't coaching well at all.
What I was wrong about, was that privately I didn't think he was capable of turning it around.

He clearly has.

[SENsei]

Here are two of the silliest things I have read on the forum since the Sack Lyon post.

(but I'm sure that Westaway played an important part), Lyon suddenly stepped up, made a statement by dropping Milne and Dal,

You really really REALLY cannot accept that Lyon is the one calling the shots can you???

Westaway did not decide to drop them...Lyon did and to suggest otherwise is just utter fantasy and foolishness

Westaway did however support Lyon as coach when the jackals were howling for him to be sacked.

You make me laugh. It has become patently obvious to me over many months that you do not read what is posted, nor what you actually quote as being posted.

Please explain from above where the writer suggested Westaway dropped those players?

Your response and the words you have quoted bear no relevance to each other.

As I say, you make me laugh! And sometimes, that is just the tonic.

[Milton66]

History is being re-written a bit on this last page.


What we're seeing now on the field, is not what Lyon brought to the table 3 years ago.

I know it suits the 'blind Lyon followers' to think it is, and that he (and they) were right all along and all it needed was time to work.

But sadly, that isn't the case.

The mute President has pretty much said 2 things in his tenure. Both very, very significant things.

1) That if he had his way, the head coach at the Saints would have a 10 year tenure because we need stability

and

2) We need to adjust the way we're playing heading into 2009

These weren't off the cuff comments, these were both very clear messages.

Around this time, Ross Lyon also acknowledged that it wasn't working, and that basically he had it wrong and changed it.
The only people that think Lyon had it right from the start are the ones on here who wanted him caste in bronze and knighted as soon as he was appointed.

The funny thing about this entire 4 year saga that has brought SS to it's knees/made it the most interesting place on the Net, is that no-one has been correct.


I was wrong in that I knew due to the timing of the sacking, that it would set us back a few years. I knew whilst being 'set back' that we still had the talent to play finals, but I didn't think we'd be a true contender until the age of our list balanced out. I thought this would happen next year.

I was spot on that Lyon wasn't coaching well early - many were. He wasn't coaching well at all.
What I was wrong about, was that privately I didn't think he was capable of turning it around.

He clearly has.

Fair call.

It was obvious that Lyon didn't get it right at the start. But surely there are various factors?

Fitness regime; game style; current list just to name a few.

So can anyone objectively assess how much of 2007 was due to RL, and how much to the fundamental shift that took place?

Whilst I cannot speak ofr others, I never thought he had it right from day one. My only desire was that people gave him sufficient time to settle in, and make the personell changes he wanted.

Then and only then can we make a fair and objective assesment of his performance.

As for each coach's legacy... one has been written, and the next we'll find out over thext year or so.

Here's hoping that for the sake of the club and long suffering supporters, that the latter's legacy turns out to be the ultimate prize.

Go Saints!!

[66 Saints]

Indeed while some seem stuck on a GT vs Lyon focus

[saintly]

What have I missed in this thread?

nothing much!

[matrix]