Oh really, as per usual I'm sure your view was somewhat obscured!rodgerfox wrote:
And as usual I watched it with both eyes wide open.
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joffaboy wrote:You mean the hand we dealt ourselves with poor list and "training services" management?rodgerfox wrote: Although very, very disappointed that night, I was incredibly proud of how well we did that season, and that night, with the hand we were dealt.
The fact that that regime destroyed any chance we had by not getting the team fit enough to run a game out?
The fact that our injury list was appalling with numerous and repeated soft tissue injuries?
Yeah it was a poor hand dealt (by the dealer to himself). Good thing we got rid of the duds running the team and the admin.
Joffaboy, exactly 100% correct weight!joffaboy wrote:Why harsh? We had a turnstile on the "training services" office door during the GT/Butters regime. No continuity, no money to improve the situation and no stats on player fitness at all (as documented by Dave Misson when he got there - he was amazed and appalled).rodgerfox wrote:A pretty harsh view really.
Lyon recognised very early that the team needed "meat and potatoes" (his term) in their fitness management diet - brought in Misson and the bloke from North, and after 2007 whenthe previous regimes damage was being repaired, we have hardly had a soft tissue injury.
The neglect and negligence of the - I dont get involved in fitness and training services issues" coach and the "wont spend any money" President resulted in our list being decimated by needless injuries and hences a shot at the flag in 2004 and 2005.
The game goes for four quarters. Superior injury management and fitness of the Sydney team prevailed over the neglected and unfit St.Kilda team.rodgerfox wrote:But, in the end, regardless of what you wrote, it still took a team that had an unchanged lineup for 10 weeks to kick 7 straight in the final quarter to roll us.
True, and one of an injury depleted Geelong or St.Kilda would have been flogged by a near fully fit WCE in the Grand Final.rodgerfox wrote:Had Geelong not had 4 injuries in the last quarter the week before, we would have come up against a team nearly as depleted as we were instead.
Now this thread finally gets some quality.barks4eva wrote:
Enter Lyon, Misson, Drain,
Lucky, lucky, lucky, we should be so lucky!
I don't know - perhaps if they were interested in facts they might.markp wrote:How can anyone see it any differently?joffaboy wrote:Why harsh? We had a turnstile on the "training services" office door during the GT/Butters regime. No continuity, no money to improve the situation and no stats on player fitness at all (as documented by Dave Misson when he got there - he was amazed and appalled).rodgerfox wrote:A pretty harsh view really.
Lyon recognised very early that the team needed "meat and potatoes" (his term) in their fitness management diet - brought in Misson and the bloke from North, and after 2007 whenthe previous regimes damage was being repaired, we have hardly had a soft tissue injury.
The neglect and negligence of the - I dont get involved in fitness and training services issues" coach and the "wont spend any money" President resulted in our list being decimated by needless injuries and hences a shot at the flag in 2004 and 2005.
The game goes for four quarters. Superior injury management and fitness of the Sydney team prevailed over the neglected and unfit St.Kilda team.rodgerfox wrote:But, in the end, regardless of what you wrote, it still took a team that had an unchanged lineup for 10 weeks to kick 7 straight in the final quarter to roll us.
True, and one of an injury depleted Geelong or St.Kilda would have been flogged by a near fully fit WCE in the Grand Final.rodgerfox wrote:Had Geelong not had 4 injuries in the last quarter the week before, we would have come up against a team nearly as depleted as we were instead.
Gee, calling me a liar. You are soooooooooooooooooooo tough.rodgerfox wrote:I don't know - perhaps if they were interested in facts they might.markp wrote:How can anyone see it any differently?joffaboy wrote:Why harsh? We had a turnstile on the "training services" office door during the GT/Butters regime. No continuity, no money to improve the situation and no stats on player fitness at all (as documented by Dave Misson when he got there - he was amazed and appalled).rodgerfox wrote:A pretty harsh view really.
Lyon recognised very early that the team needed "meat and potatoes" (his term) in their fitness management diet - brought in Misson and the bloke from North, and after 2007 whenthe previous regimes damage was being repaired, we have hardly had a soft tissue injury.
The neglect and negligence of the - I dont get involved in fitness and training services issues" coach and the "wont spend any money" President resulted in our list being decimated by needless injuries and hences a shot at the flag in 2004 and 2005.
The game goes for four quarters. Superior injury management and fitness of the Sydney team prevailed over the neglected and unfit St.Kilda team.rodgerfox wrote:But, in the end, regardless of what you wrote, it still took a team that had an unchanged lineup for 10 weeks to kick 7 straight in the final quarter to roll us.
True, and one of an injury depleted Geelong or St.Kilda would have been flogged by a near fully fit WCE in the Grand Final.rodgerfox wrote:Had Geelong not had 4 injuries in the last quarter the week before, we would have come up against a team nearly as depleted as we were instead.
I was pretty sure that Chris Jones had been in charge for a few years in 2005.
I'm also pretty sure that Sam Fisher broke his foot, Gehrig broke his thumb, Dal had ribs and Roo had a shoulder that night.
Pretty hard for fitness dudes to prevent that - no matter how highly you rate them!
It's worth noting also, that West Coast lost Kerr's influence in the GF during the game with a broken leg, and lost Braun before the game.
Just some little facts, that's all.
I had a pie.rodgerfox wrote: I'm also pretty sure that Sam Fisher broke his foot, Gehrig broke his thumb, Dal had ribs and Roo had a shoulder that night.
So how did our fitness stack up in the last quarter?rodgerfox wrote:Pretty hard for fitness dudes to prevent that - no matter how highly you rate them!
This is so funny.We were just plain buggered
Yes I did.Milton66 wrote:
Gee, calling me a liar. You are soooooooooooooooooooo tough.![]()
Yes - and you obviously didn't read it. If you had have, there is no way you would have posted the lie that you did earlier.Milton66 wrote: Did you not start a thread about our "lucky" season recently?
I explained that very succinctly to you already.Milton66 wrote: I'm still waiting to here of those "poor decisions" you mentioned. You are a funny man RF. Or is that Violent Stool??
Calling you a liar when you blatantly post a lie, is not personal abuse.Milton66 wrote: Back on topic please and refrain from the personal abuse.
You've just shwon your hand as someone who has never played a game of footy.Milton66 wrote: My question is, did GT have us in the right frame of mind. Missing players aside, if we got that far, why couldn't we go for one more quater?
Was part of their plan to be 4 goals down against Geelong, then Geelong lose 4 players to injury in the last quarter, then beat them with 4 seconds to go?Milton66 wrote: As for Sydney being lucky... what a croc. They had a plan and they executed it all thru 2005.
Huh?Milton66 wrote: But don't get some minor facts get in the way of trying to belittle a fellow poster.
No. It means you lied.Milton66 wrote: For you to call me a liar, simply means that I hit a raw nerve.![]()
M66 - 1... RF - 0.
Frankly, you're obsessed with the man.Milton66 wrote: My displeasure was that GT took a shot at Ratten. I frankly, I don't believe that he has the right to. Thats just my view.
So we didn't have soft tissue injuries in 04 and 05? What was wrong with Kossie that night? Did he play? What about Hackland? And Ball? There were others carrying injuries.rodgerfox wrote:I don't know - perhaps if they were interested in facts they might.markp wrote:How can anyone see it any differently?joffaboy wrote:Why harsh? We had a turnstile on the "training services" office door during the GT/Butters regime. No continuity, no money to improve the situation and no stats on player fitness at all (as documented by Dave Misson when he got there - he was amazed and appalled).rodgerfox wrote:A pretty harsh view really.
Lyon recognised very early that the team needed "meat and potatoes" (his term) in their fitness management diet - brought in Misson and the bloke from North, and after 2007 whenthe previous regimes damage was being repaired, we have hardly had a soft tissue injury.
The neglect and negligence of the - I dont get involved in fitness and training services issues" coach and the "wont spend any money" President resulted in our list being decimated by needless injuries and hences a shot at the flag in 2004 and 2005.
The game goes for four quarters. Superior injury management and fitness of the Sydney team prevailed over the neglected and unfit St.Kilda team.rodgerfox wrote:But, in the end, regardless of what you wrote, it still took a team that had an unchanged lineup for 10 weeks to kick 7 straight in the final quarter to roll us.
True, and one of an injury depleted Geelong or St.Kilda would have been flogged by a near fully fit WCE in the Grand Final.rodgerfox wrote:Had Geelong not had 4 injuries in the last quarter the week before, we would have come up against a team nearly as depleted as we were instead.
I was pretty sure that Chris Jones had been in charge for a few years in 2005.
I'm also pretty sure that Sam Fisher broke his foot, Gehrig broke his thumb, Dal had ribs and Roo had a shoulder that night.
Pretty hard for fitness dudes to prevent that - no matter how highly you rate them!
It's worth noting also, that West Coast lost Kerr's influence in the GF during the game with a broken leg, and lost Braun before the game.
Just some little facts, that's all.
No... 'luck' is always the overriding factor!joffaboy wrote: So we didn't have soft tissue injuries in 04 and 05? What was wrong with Kossie that night? Did he play? What about Hackland? And Ball? There were others carrying injuries.
Dal had broken ribs? or where they bruised? Riewoldt had had a should all season.
And why weren't we fit enough to run out the game even with these injuries.
Would Kerr have broken his leg if we or Geelong had played them in the Grand Final?.
the facts are that we could not get our full team on the park all of 2004 and 2005. Injuries completely wrecked the seasons.
If we had have been able to keep our soft tissue epidemic in check with good list management we may not have come 3rd and 4th in those two seasons and may not have had to play interstate in the first finals.
In 2004 we were smashed by Brisbane, then had to get to the PF the hard way and play interstate.
In 2005 we busted a gut beating Adelaide (again an interstate final) and even with two weeks break couldn't go four qtrs with Sydney.
Because of list management and poor decision making by coaching and admin, we were not given the best opportunity in those finals campaigns to win through to have a shot at the flag.
Contrast to this year. Great list management, hardly a soft tissue injury, we finish first, we get a home state QF. We win, and now with a full list, have a week off to prepare for another home PF.
It all has to do with player management, player conditioning, and list management, something that the GT/Butters regime was pitiful at and it cost us an opportunity to have a shot at a flag.
If you cant see that, well, I just dont know what to say.
I'm not sure who you are arguing with here. If it's me, I'm not sure we're on the same page.joffaboy wrote:So we didn't have soft tissue injuries in 04 and 05? What was wrong with Kossie that night? Did he play? What about Hackland? And Ball? There were others carrying injuries.rodgerfox wrote:I don't know - perhaps if they were interested in facts they might.markp wrote:How can anyone see it any differently?joffaboy wrote:Why harsh? We had a turnstile on the "training services" office door during the GT/Butters regime. No continuity, no money to improve the situation and no stats on player fitness at all (as documented by Dave Misson when he got there - he was amazed and appalled).rodgerfox wrote:A pretty harsh view really.
Lyon recognised very early that the team needed "meat and potatoes" (his term) in their fitness management diet - brought in Misson and the bloke from North, and after 2007 whenthe previous regimes damage was being repaired, we have hardly had a soft tissue injury.
The neglect and negligence of the - I dont get involved in fitness and training services issues" coach and the "wont spend any money" President resulted in our list being decimated by needless injuries and hences a shot at the flag in 2004 and 2005.
The game goes for four quarters. Superior injury management and fitness of the Sydney team prevailed over the neglected and unfit St.Kilda team.rodgerfox wrote:But, in the end, regardless of what you wrote, it still took a team that had an unchanged lineup for 10 weeks to kick 7 straight in the final quarter to roll us.
True, and one of an injury depleted Geelong or St.Kilda would have been flogged by a near fully fit WCE in the Grand Final.rodgerfox wrote:Had Geelong not had 4 injuries in the last quarter the week before, we would have come up against a team nearly as depleted as we were instead.
I was pretty sure that Chris Jones had been in charge for a few years in 2005.
I'm also pretty sure that Sam Fisher broke his foot, Gehrig broke his thumb, Dal had ribs and Roo had a shoulder that night.
Pretty hard for fitness dudes to prevent that - no matter how highly you rate them!
It's worth noting also, that West Coast lost Kerr's influence in the GF during the game with a broken leg, and lost Braun before the game.
Just some little facts, that's all.
Dal had broken ribs? or where they bruised? Riewoldt had had a should all season.
And why weren't we fit enough to run out the game even with these injuries.
Would Kerr have broken his leg if we or Geelong had played them in the Grand Final?.
the facts are that we could not get our full team on the park all of 2004 and 2005. Injuries completely wrecked the seasons.
If we had have been able to keep our soft tissue epidemic in check with good list management we may not have come 3rd and 4th in those two seasons and may not have had to play interstate in the first finals.
In 2004 we were smashed by Brisbane, then had to get to the PF the hard way and play interstate.
In 2005 we busted a gut beating Adelaide (again an interstate final) and even with two weeks break couldn't go four qtrs with Sydney.
Because of list management and poor decision making by coaching and admin, we were not given the best opportunity in those finals campaigns to win through to have a shot at the flag.
Contrast to this year. Great list management, hardly a soft tissue injury, we finish first, we get a home state QF. We win, and now with a full list, have a week off to prepare for another home PF.
It all has to do with player management, player conditioning, and list management, something that the GT/Butters regime was pitiful at and it cost us an opportunity to have a shot at a flag.
If you cant see that, well, I just dont know what to say.
Liar!markp wrote:No... 'luck' is always the overriding factor!joffaboy wrote: So we didn't have soft tissue injuries in 04 and 05? What was wrong with Kossie that night? Did he play? What about Hackland? And Ball? There were others carrying injuries.
Dal had broken ribs? or where they bruised? Riewoldt had had a should all season.
And why weren't we fit enough to run out the game even with these injuries.
Would Kerr have broken his leg if we or Geelong had played them in the Grand Final?.
the facts are that we could not get our full team on the park all of 2004 and 2005. Injuries completely wrecked the seasons.
If we had have been able to keep our soft tissue epidemic in check with good list management we may not have come 3rd and 4th in those two seasons and may not have had to play interstate in the first finals.
In 2004 we were smashed by Brisbane, then had to get to the PF the hard way and play interstate.
In 2005 we busted a gut beating Adelaide (again an interstate final) and even with two weeks break couldn't go four qtrs with Sydney.
Because of list management and poor decision making by coaching and admin, we were not given the best opportunity in those finals campaigns to win through to have a shot at the flag.
Contrast to this year. Great list management, hardly a soft tissue injury, we finish first, we get a home state QF. We win, and now with a full list, have a week off to prepare for another home PF.
It all has to do with player management, player conditioning, and list management, something that the GT/Butters regime was pitiful at and it cost us an opportunity to have a shot at a flag.
If you cant see that, well, I just dont know what to say.
Agree totally P66.plugger66 wrote:I must say that GT has every right to have a go at a coach whethere they are a better coach than him or not. He is paid to have an opinion and what is wrong with saying Carlton should not have lost the game. I can assure you if something like that was to happen in either of the last 2 finals then Rl would cop plenty from here and in the media. i actually Ratten has got off lightly as have the players.
If timing is everything in comedy, then this takes the cake.barks4eva wrote:Oh really, as per usual I'm sure your view was somewhat obscured!rodgerfox wrote:
And as usual I watched it with both eyes wide open.
so the OP starts a thread to ridicule GT but if Leigh Matthews said the same thing you would agree...Milton66 wrote:Agree totally P66.plugger66 wrote:I must say that GT has every right to have a go at a coach whethere they are a better coach than him or not. He is paid to have an opinion and what is wrong with saying Carlton should not have lost the game. I can assure you if something like that was to happen in either of the last 2 finals then Rl would cop plenty from here and in the media. i actually Ratten has got off lightly as have the players.
And RL would cop plenty from me also.
I just find it ironic when he makes those calls. That's all.
If MAtthews made them, then I'd more inclined to take it on board.
See this where your GT love blinds you.sunsaint wrote:so the OP starts a thread to ridicule GT but if Leigh Matthews said the same thing you would agree...Milton66 wrote:Agree totally P66.plugger66 wrote:I must say that GT has every right to have a go at a coach whethere they are a better coach than him or not. He is paid to have an opinion and what is wrong with saying Carlton should not have lost the game. I can assure you if something like that was to happen in either of the last 2 finals then Rl would cop plenty from here and in the media. i actually Ratten has got off lightly as have the players.
And RL would cop plenty from me also.
I just find it ironic when he makes those calls. That's all.
If MAtthews made them, then I'd more inclined to take it on board.
speaks volumes about your character