13 years, 9th longest player EVER, last year, ROSS?????

[Milton66]

Ok Matrix, here's your challenge for today...

Given the accusations on this thread, can you find a "liar liar pants on fire" emoticon?

[markp]

Ok Matrix, here's your challenge for today...

Given the accusations on this thread, can you find a "liar liar pants on fire" emoticon?

[rodgerfox]

Mr Magic --->

[bob__71]

Zac has had a better run over the full season. That is why he is in

I think Zac does get help from his teammates down back. But I also thinks he goes to help his teammates out quite often.

I get quite amazed by the amount of supporters who dont realise how we play these days. There are very few man on man match ups. And quite often the full back pushes right up to the centre of the ground when we have the ball in our forward line. Would Max leave his man to this extent for the team good?

[rodgerfox]

Zac has had a better run over the full season. That is why he is in

I think Zac does get help from his teammates down back. But I also thinks he goes to help his teammates out quite often.

I get quite amazed by the amount of supporters who dont realise how we play these days. There are very few man on man match ups. And quite often the full back pushes right up to the centre of the ground when we have the ball in our forward line. Would Max leave his man to this extent for the team good?

You're right.

The way we play now under Lyon, is different to what many footy people are used to.

They/we just don't get it.


However, the query is that in the finals if our midfield can't be as dominant as it's been in the H&A season, should we have a defender in there who can be relied on to beat his opponent one-on-one.

[Milton66]

Zac has had a better run over the full season. That is why he is in

I think Zac does get help from his teammates down back. But I also thinks he goes to help his teammates out quite often.

I get quite amazed by the amount of supporters who dont realise how we play these days. There are very few man on man match ups. And quite often the full back pushes right up to the centre of the ground when we have the ball in our forward line. Would Max leave his man to this extent for the team good?

You're right.

The way we play now under Lyon, is different to what many footy people are used to.

They/we just don't get it.


However, the query is that in the finals if our midfield can't be as dominant as it's been in the H&A season, should we have a defender in there who can be relied on to beat his opponent one-on-one.

Mate, regardless of who's down back, if our midfield fails, we're gawn.

You can't compare 1 player vs a midfield of 6 players. Surely you'd have to go with the %'s of the midfield at least breaking even.

[saintsRrising]

It's a fascinating debate this one.

Only 3 years ago, the St Kilda faithful wanted to strung Grant Thomas up for suggesting that Robert Harvey needed to convince the club that he should play on.
.

Talk about comparing apples and oranges in order to pump up GT's tyres.


GT was wrong for wanting exit out Banger too early. Banger's high level of football afterwards proved this.

Also note that there was not then other mids to replace Banger.

So you had a player capable of playinga role...and no suitable replacements.

After Lyon joined he pumped up the midfield divisision with CJ, Geary Eddy, Ray...and with existing defender in Gram now turned into a running mid as well. Add to this an improve Joey and BJ also rotating thru the midfield = Banger could now retire (plus being several seasons older).


Now with Max
* A replacement has been found in Zac. a replacement that has also not had injury problems. A replacement who while not having Max's stopping skills is more suited to zoming and play on football required today. Bnager in his alst years was still very suited to the evolving game..and indeed his ability to find soace and run made him ideal for it.

* whereas Max has had many injuries this year..both major and minor and has often not played out games (compared to Banger once he was managed propaerly havinga great run with injuries ).



GT's call to exit Harvey was premature. Remember too that GT also got it 100% WRONG in Banger's last year when he came out in the pre-season and stated that he had seen the signs the previous season that Banger was past it.

Max while a great servant of the club has stuggled to stay on the field this year.


Comparing Banger who was in great form, fit and firing to Max who has struggled to play, let alone play well is a most odd comparison.



Now Max at his best would still squeeze out Zac. But Max is not currently at his best....and this is then made worse with fitness concerns.

[matrix]

Ok Matrix, here's your challenge for today...

Given the accusations on this thread, can you find a "liar liar pants on fire" emoticon?

havent got one

not happy jan

best i could do for liars:

[rodgerfox]

It's a fascinating debate this one.

Only 3 years ago, the St Kilda faithful wanted to strung Grant Thomas up for suggesting that Robert Harvey needed to convince the club that he should play on.
.

Talk about comparing apples and oranges in order to pump up GT's tyres.


GT was wrong for wanting exit out Banger too early. Banger's high level of football afterwards proved this.

Also note that there was not then other mids to replace Banger.

So you had a player capable of playinga role...and no suitable replacements.

After Lyon joined he pumped up the midfield divisision with CJ, Geary Eddy, Ray...and with existing defender in Gram now turned into a running mid as well. Add to this an improve Joey and BJ also rotating thru the midfield = Banger could now retire (plus being several seasons older).


Now with Max
* A replacement has been found in Zac. a replacement that has also not had injury problems. A replacement who while not having Max's stopping skills is more suited to zoming and play on football required today. Bnager in his alst years was still very suited to the evolving game..and indeed his ability to find soace and run made him ideal for it.

* whereas Max has had many injuries this year..both major and minor and has often not played out games (compared to Banger once he was managed propaerly havinga great run with injuries ).



GT's call to exit Harvey was premature. Remember too that GT also got it 100% WRONG in Banger's last year when he came out in the pre-season and stated that he had seen the signs the previous season that Banger was past it.

Max while a great servant of the club has stuggled to stay on the field this year.


Comparing Banger who was in great form, fit and firing to Max who has struggled to play, let alone play well is a most odd comparison.



Now Max at his best would still squeeze out Zac. But Max is not currently at his best....and this is then made worse with fitness concerns.

For starters, GT didn't want to exit Harvey out.

What he wanted to do, was 'exit' every player out, then get them to convince the club they should come back next year. Every player. Not just Harves - but certaonly including him.

Plenty of people felt Harves could have given it away at that time - but it was sentiment and emotion on behalf of Saints fans that dictated the level of outrage.

For the first time since I could ever remember, the leaders at the club were removing emotion and sentiment from their decision making, and ignoring the idolisation of individuals aswell. It was a consistent 'team' focus across the entire group.

It's the same now. A guy who is a legend of the club somewhat, who is still according to most forwards in the game - the best defender in the comp. However for the benefit of the team, the leaders at the club are prepared to put emotion and sentiment aside in their decision making.

It's very, very similar.

Many, including the best forwards in the game currently, argue that Max is a far better player and defender than Dawson.

So the similarities are eerily close.

[rodgerfox]

Ok Matrix, here's your challenge for today...

Given the accusations on this thread, can you find a "liar liar pants on fire" emoticon?

havent got one

not happy jan

best i could do for liars:

What's this? a ham sandwich??

[matrix]

a sandwich usually denotes something placed between two slices of bread......

i see no bread

[Milton66]

Perhaps GT should have removed emotion from the equation... exited himself out and then convince the club why they should re-appoint him.



BTW Max was great, and probably still is. But you cannot draw a comparison between 2 players when 1 has played 20 games and contributed to 19 odd wins, and the other only 7 games due to injuries.

As for opposition players, how can they seriously compare a player they've played against once or twice to a player they've played against for a decade?

[rodgerfox]

Perhaps GT should have removed emotion from the equation... exited himself out and then convince the club why they should re-appoint him.



BTW Max was great, and probably still is. But you cannot draw a comparison between 2 players when 1 has played 20 games and contributed to 19 odd wins, and the other only 7 games due to injuries.

As for opposition players, how can they seriously compare a player they've played against once or twice to a player they've played against for a decade?

I'm not drawing a comparison between the two players, I'm drawing a comparison in the decision making process that potentially leaves out a club legend for the benefit of the club.

[Mr Magic]

Mr Magic --->

Someone pass the barf bags around for the next time rodger plays the 'victim' card about people 'abusing poor little wodger'.

And rodger, no matter how many times you repeat a lie, it doesn't make it true.
I would have thought that you'd learned that little lesson by now, given that so many posters have caught you out repeatedly?

Matrix, do you have an emoticon that signifies a 'giant dog turd' - it would be perfect to use on most of rodger's posts.

[rodgerfox]

Mr Magic --->

Someone pass the barf bags around for the next time rodger plays the 'victim' card about people 'abusing poor little wodger'.

And rodger, no matter how many times you repeat a lie, it doesn't make it true.
I would have thought that you'd learned that little lesson by now, given that so many posters have caught you out repeatedly?

Matrix, do you have an emoticon that signifies a 'giant dog turd' - it would be perfect to use on most of rodger's posts.

Bravo!! More quality input from Mr Magic to the forum!

[matrix]

Matrix, do you have an emoticon that signifies a 'giant dog turd' - it would be perfect to use on most of rodger's posts.

sorry MM
only could find one named: Full of Crap

[rodgerfox]

Interestingly, this thread was back on track and providing some pretty good discussion, until about 7 minutes ago.

Funny that.

[matrix]

[Mr Magic]

Matrix, do you have an emoticon that signifies a 'giant dog turd' - it would be perfect to use on most of rodger's posts.

sorry MM
only could find one named: Full of Crap

Thanks Matrix.

[Mr Magic]

Interestingly, this thread was back on track and providing some pretty good discussion, until about 7 minutes ago.

Funny that.

I only responded to your baiting cheap shot - Liar!

You want the thread to reamin on topic, then stop baiting and insulting and nobody will likely respond to you.

But then you wopuldn't get your jollies and, IMO, that's all this is really about anyway.

[Milton66]

Matrix, do you have an emoticon that signifies a 'giant dog turd' - it would be perfect to use on most of rodger's posts.

sorry MM
only could find one named: Full of Crap

Talk about a viloent stool.

[rodgerfox]

Interestingly, this thread was back on track and providing some pretty good discussion, until about 7 minutes ago.

Funny that.

I only responded to your baiting cheap shot - Liar!

You want the thread to reamin on topic, then stop baiting and insulting and nobody will likely respond to you.

But then you wopuldn't get your jollies and, IMO, that's all this is really about anyway.

Are you aware there is a PM function on this forum? Little, boring personal digs like this that add nothing to the discussion and simply bore everyone, are best done via PM.

Thanks.

[matrix]

how ironic
didnt even mean it lmao

[Mr Magic]

Interestingly, this thread was back on track and providing some pretty good discussion, until about 7 minutes ago.

Funny that.

I only responded to your baiting cheap shot - Liar!

You want the thread to reamin on topic, then stop baiting and insulting and nobody will likely respond to you.

But then you wopuldn't get your jollies and, IMO, that's all this is really about anyway.

Are you aware there is a PM function on this forum? Little, boring personal digs like this that add nothing to the discussion and simply bore everyone, are best done via PM.

Thanks.

Ha, You post a cheap shot at me and when I respond lecture me on 'boring the rest of the posters'?

Your 'hide' is unbelievable.
I'll respond in exactly the same manner as I'm attacked. You want me to respond via pm - then write to me via pm.

Don't demand and expect others to do what you're not prepared to do.

And in this spirit of offering unsolicited, gratuitous tips, I'll give you one back in return - you'd be the last poster on here I'd be looking for advice from.

[rodgerfox]

Interestingly, this thread was back on track and providing some pretty good discussion, until about 7 minutes ago.

Funny that.

I only responded to your baiting cheap shot - Liar!

You want the thread to reamin on topic, then stop baiting and insulting and nobody will likely respond to you.

But then you wopuldn't get your jollies and, IMO, that's all this is really about anyway.

Are you aware there is a PM function on this forum? Little, boring personal digs like this that add nothing to the discussion and simply bore everyone, are best done via PM.

Thanks.

Ha, You post a cheap shot at me and when I respond lecture me on 'boring the rest of the posters'?

Your 'hide' is unbelievable.
I'll respond in exactly the same manner as I'm attacked. You want me to respond via pm - then write to me via pm.

Don't demand and expect others to do what you're not prepared to do.

And in this spirit of offering unsolicited, gratuitous tips, I'll give you one back in return - you'd be the last poster on here I'd be looking for advice from.

You see, this is the exact type of emotional ramblings that are best done via PM (if you're the type of person that gets so upset over an internet forum and could be bothered of course).

Other posters must surely get bored with this type of nonsense.