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...and wait and see who wins before we post our opinionsohwhenthesaints! wrote:We should wait and see who plays before making judgements.
This thread is no different to many, many others.plugger66 wrote:I was wondering how a simple topic went to 4 pages. Now i can understand. RF at his best or should that be worst.
excellent well thought out post........rodgerfox wrote:It's a fascinating debate this one.
Only 3 years ago, the St Kilda faithful wanted to strung Grant Thomas up for suggesting that Robert Harvey needed to convince the club that he should play on.
Now, it seems the club 'culture' (as much as I loathe that word and the concept of it) has matured to a point where emotion and romance is taking second place behind sense and professional decision making.
Where this debate becomes interesting though, is that alot of people cannot fathom that Eddy, Gwilt, Dawson etc. could possibly get a game ahead of Max and Luke Ball. Based purely on ability and value ot the team, not emotion.
This is where it's interesting. Lyon clearly has his favourites, it's just that his favourites are different to the favourites of the Saints faithful.
This could well be one of those football decisions that either makes a coach a genius, or ruins their career.
And in alot of these situations, the result on the day overshadows the actual merit of the decision they make.
Meaning, if we lose there is no doubt that Lyon will be criticised for not playing Max and/or Ball - regardless of if in reality they would have made the difference.
Forgive my ignorance but what are these "cracks" you refer to?rodgerfox wrote:Well at least you have the decency to ask the question, as opposed to posting blatant lies about other posters.Milton66 wrote: Perhaps you can avail us of the specific quote in order to put the matter to rest. I seem to recall something whereby you stated that you came to the conclusion that RL was not a good coach after 3 months into his tenure.
What I said, was that I was a strong, even staunch supporter of Lyon when he was appointed.
During our first practice match, I was a bit concerned about the style of play that it seemed clear, he was going to implement onto our team.
I never aired these concerns. It wasn't a big deal.
3 months into the season, my concerns re the game plan and style were quite strong. It wasn't working, as I had had believed it wouldn't after that first praccy.
Again, I never aired these concerns, and on here publicly, supported Ross Lyon.
Last year, obviously I began to speak 'publicly' about my thoughts in relation to Lyon's coaching and where it was falling down.
That was it simple. Clear as day.
Much of the discussion and ridicule came for 2 reasons - people don't bother to read what I write, and people simply like to argue with me.Milton66 wrote: Much discussion and ridicule followed given that 3 months in was still part of the preseason.
I didn't say Lyon made poor decisions. I said that until we have injuries and things don't go our way, we won't know what (if any) mistakes Lyon has made.Milton66 wrote: You could also enlighten us as to RL's poor decisions that also referred to a while back.
Simply put, with a full list of fit superstar footballer, you don't see any cracks.
It would probably be easier for people to read posts properly, and even butt out of threads where they have no intentin other than to abuse me and/or hijack a thread.Milton66 wrote: This would save us all the abuse and fighting that goes on.
my sentiments exactly..bigred wrote:Max is a freakin legend. Heart and soul of the club since 1997 imo.
As much as I would love to see him play in a Premiership side, I would love to just win the premiership more.
He is still in the mix. Three wins to go. Anything can happen.
I agree with a lot of what you are saying.rodgerfox wrote:It's a fascinating debate this one.
Only 3 years ago, the St Kilda faithful wanted to strung Grant Thomas up for suggesting that Robert Harvey needed to convince the club that he should play on.
Now, it seems the club 'culture' (as much as I loathe that word and the concept of it) has matured to a point where emotion and romance is taking second place behind sense and professional decision making.
Where this debate becomes interesting though, is that alot of people cannot fathom that Eddy, Gwilt, Dawson etc. could possibly get a game ahead of Max and Luke Ball. Based purely on ability and value ot the team, not emotion.
This is where it's interesting. Lyon clearly has his favourites, it's just that his favourites are different to the favourites of the Saints faithful.
This could well be one of those football decisions that either makes a coach a genius, or ruins their career.
And in alot of these situations, the result on the day overshadows the actual merit of the decision they make.
Meaning, if we lose there is no doubt that Lyon will be criticised for not playing Max and/or Ball - regardless of if in reality they would have made the difference.
F*ck me.Milton66 wrote:Forgive my ignorance but what are these "cracks" you refer to?rodgerfox wrote:Well at least you have the decency to ask the question, as opposed to posting blatant lies about other posters.Milton66 wrote: Perhaps you can avail us of the specific quote in order to put the matter to rest. I seem to recall something whereby you stated that you came to the conclusion that RL was not a good coach after 3 months into his tenure.
What I said, was that I was a strong, even staunch supporter of Lyon when he was appointed.
During our first practice match, I was a bit concerned about the style of play that it seemed clear, he was going to implement onto our team.
I never aired these concerns. It wasn't a big deal.
3 months into the season, my concerns re the game plan and style were quite strong. It wasn't working, as I had had believed it wouldn't after that first praccy.
Again, I never aired these concerns, and on here publicly, supported Ross Lyon.
Last year, obviously I began to speak 'publicly' about my thoughts in relation to Lyon's coaching and where it was falling down.
That was it simple. Clear as day.
Much of the discussion and ridicule came for 2 reasons - people don't bother to read what I write, and people simply like to argue with me.Milton66 wrote: Much discussion and ridicule followed given that 3 months in was still part of the preseason.
I didn't say Lyon made poor decisions. I said that until we have injuries and things don't go our way, we won't know what (if any) mistakes Lyon has made.Milton66 wrote: You could also enlighten us as to RL's poor decisions that also referred to a while back.
Simply put, with a full list of fit superstar footballer, you don't see any cracks.
It would probably be easier for people to read posts properly, and even butt out of threads where they have no intentin other than to abuse me and/or hijack a thread.Milton66 wrote: This would save us all the abuse and fighting that goes on.
Recruiting? So far, apart from C Gardiner and Clrk the ruckman... nothing to see there
Tactics? I believe you're on record as stating that the role of th coach is over rated.
Gameplan? Given your initial concerns, surely a 20-2 result must dismiss these concerns.
Depth? So far so good. 8 players out and we still won.
Lack of development of youngsters? Eddy, Geary, Gwilt, Armo, Steven, MacEvoy all given game time.
Ability to bring out the best in players? Tell that to Gilbo, Joey, Dal and afew others.
Fitness? Nuff said.
Is the club going backwards? Given your view that we were lucky to make top 4 last year, then surely the club is going forward this year with a 20-2 result.
So what other cracks have I missed?
Liar!rodgerfox wrote:This thread is no different to many, many others.plugger66 wrote:I was wondering how a simple topic went to 4 pages. Now i can understand. RF at his best or should that be worst.
A topic worth debating/discussion, with varying views and some interesting points.
Then posters start with the insults and slanging, then other posters jump in and completely and utterly maul a decent thread.
Why is everyone so surprised. If you see Mr Magic's name in any thread, simply avoid it cause they all end up like this.
You've got to know by now, people only see what they want to see.rodgerfox wrote: F*ck me.
How hard is this to understand??
Here it is again....
"I didn't say Lyon made poor decisions. I said that until we have injuries and things don't go our way, we won't know what (if any) mistakes Lyon has made.
Simply put, with a full list of fit superstar footballer, you don't see any cracks."
This is your stupidest post yet!!!Simply put, with a full list of fit superstar footballer, you don't see any cracks.
I'm sure he does watch the footy. I'm also pretty sure he reads this forum, and is very clever to pick topics that he knows will fuel debate and division. That's his greatest skill.rexy wrote:Roger Fox
Do you watch the football?
The Hudgton Dawson debate is definately one for the ages and good arguments can be made for both. I have been on the fence for the last 16 weeks and dont envisage getting off it any time soon.
All that said, Zac Dawson kicks the football extremely well over 40 to 50 meters forwards to a target. His disposal is very good and the fact that you do not realise this astounds me. For many years on this forum I have respected you for your right to an opinion and your courage to stick to it. I now wonder whether perhaps you are watching a different game to the rest of us. Surely you can see with your eyes dawsons disposal and give him credit for it, regardless of whether he should be in the side or not?
