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desertsaint wrote:as an example - for the hawks, barry hall has been touted as a potential lead up forward, along with buddy, to allow roughead to play deeper near the goal square.
i reckon steve johnson fits the bill perfectly - if only mooney and hawkins were better.
who do we have as an option? no one really comes to mind.
Gwilt hasn't shown enough unfortunately.
Hope we look closely at this come draft time.
who is going to play this role in the next few weeks...not at the draft table
We may be forced to stick with Gwilt just to play the role and hope that he pulls his finger out and contributes for 4 quarters...He has all the attributes but fades in and out too much...could be such a damaging player, both physically and on the scoreboard though just doesnt seem to want to impose himself on the game.
From what I hear, Jimmy is a lovely guy, who just lacks confidence.
He doesn't truly believe he belongs in the side.
If he ever gets to the point where he truly accepts he should be there, he could be anything.
Oh well thats great...Im sure hes a ripper of a bloke, but how much incentive does a bloke need to pull his finger out and believe in himself...He could be the key to a frekin premiership FFS.
I'll take an arse of a bloke that wants to work his ring off for 4 quarters anyday.
I'm sure the coaching staff and psychologists are all telling him just that.
If we're lucky it'll sink in and he'll prove to be as much of a match winner as he was in that final in Adelaide.
desertsaint wrote:as an example - for the hawks, barry hall has been touted as a potential lead up forward, along with buddy, to allow roughead to play deeper near the goal square.
i reckon steve johnson fits the bill perfectly - if only mooney and hawkins were better.
who do we have as an option? no one really comes to mind.
Gwilt hasn't shown enough unfortunately.
Hope we look closely at this come draft time.
who is going to play this role in the next few weeks...not at the draft table
We may be forced to stick with Gwilt just to play the role and hope that he pulls his finger out and contributes for 4 quarters...He has all the attributes but fades in and out too much...could be such a damaging player, both physically and on the scoreboard though just doesnt seem to want to impose himself on the game.
From what I hear, Jimmy is a lovely guy, who just lacks confidence.
He doesn't truly believe he belongs in the side.
If he ever gets to the point where he truly accepts he should be there, he could be anything.
Oh well thats great...Im sure hes a ripper of a bloke, but how much incentive does a bloke need to pull his finger out and believe in himself...He could be the key to a frekin premiership FFS.
I'll take an arse of a bloke that wants to work his ring off for 4 quarters anyday.
To be fair I have never seen work rate as his issue???
He needs to be a better player to have a long career but it is not pulling his finger out that is the issue. Beleiving in yourself is not about trying harder, it is about backing your judgement and taking risks etc. It will either just happen or it wont IMO.
For what it is worth I thought Jones Ray Mqualter and a few others looked like they were playing safe on Sunday. Looked like the preassure of keeping a spot for the finals was waying on them.
Mr Magic wrote:From what I hear, Jimmy is a lovely guy, who just lacks confidence.
He doesn't truly believe he belongs in the side. If he ever gets to the point where he truly accepts he should be there, he could be anything.
i hope he can find that self belief as i do think he has something to offer. he is still young and his time may come.
i think this week he's out purely to make space for lenny and ball.
Takes a good grab,bit of pace,pressure skills,nice enough kick,should ba able to spin around and get it in quick and every now and then ghost across a pack for a deep mark.....
35...LEGEND wrote:Could Farren Ray play the lead up forward role ??
Takes a good grab,bit of pace,pressure skills,nice enough kick,should ba able to spin around and get it in quick and every now and then ghost across a pack for a deep mark.....
Thoughts ??
Great option, could definitely play the role...has a huge engine too...seems strange though that no one has nailed down this spot.
We will be going into the finals playing guys in a pinch hitter type role rather than having a bloke who has made the spot his own . By not having a third tall to make the floating/ lose defensive player accountable we will get chopped up across half back. Opossition teams will simply let Roo roam further away from goal and cut off any further entry toward Kosi. Maybe I am cluthing at straws but the more I think about this the more worried i get.. Im sure Ross has his plans though but this is the one aspect of the team that worries me..
desertsaint wrote:as an example - for the hawks, barry hall has been touted as a potential lead up forward, along with buddy, to allow roughead to play deeper near the goal square.
i reckon steve johnson fits the bill perfectly - if only mooney and hawkins were better.
who do we have as an option? no one really comes to mind.
Gwilt hasn't shown enough unfortunately.
Hope we look closely at this come draft time.
who is going to play this role in the next few weeks...not at the draft table
We may be forced to stick with Gwilt just to play the role and hope that he pulls his finger out and contributes for 4 quarters...He has all the attributes but fades in and out too much...could be such a damaging player, both physically and on the scoreboard though just doesnt seem to want to impose himself on the game.
From what I hear, Jimmy is a lovely guy, who just lacks confidence.
He doesn't truly believe he belongs in the side.
If he ever gets to the point where he truly accepts he should be there, he could be anything.
I think he has a fair bit of footy talent. Maybe his game against the Crows in the finals has set expectations on him too high?
Or perhaps we expect him to play to our perceptions, rather than what's asked of him.
Sadly, many supporters rate players based on disposals or goals. Guys like JG and Eddy are workhorses, who's job is to free up the stars. If they kick a goal or 2, then it's probably a bonus.
That said, JG is my footy fairytale poster boy, and I'd love to see him do well, given where he's come from in a footy sense.
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35...LEGEND wrote:Could Farren Ray play the lead up forward role ??
Takes a good grab,bit of pace,pressure skills,nice enough kick,should ba able to spin around and get it in quick and every now and then ghost across a pack for a deep mark.....
Thoughts ??
Great option, could definitely play the role...has a huge engine too...seems strange though that no one has nailed down this spot.
We will be going into the finals playing guys in a pinch hitter type role rather than having a bloke who has made the spot his own . By not having a third tall to make the floating/ lose defensive player accountable we will get chopped up across half back. Opossition teams will simply let Roo roam further away from goal and cut off any further entry toward Kosi. Maybe I am cluthing at straws but the more I think about this the more worried i get.. Im sure Ross has his plans though but this is the one aspect of the team that worries me..
like you i worry too....becomes too easy at times for the opposition to kill off forward thrust's......
But at the same time we won 19 straight with noone nailing down the job.....worried about nothing maybe
Still would like to see Farren given an oppotunity at it.....maybe it's a wild card for September...............................aaaaand maybe not.
Riewoldt is the best lead up forward in the business.
Unfortunately we need him to stay close to goal to kick a winning score.
Riewoldt can't be in two places at once.
There are two solutions to the problem in future years.
1 Find a lead up forward.
2 Find someone to replace Riewoldt close to goal.
The second of these two options may prove easier to find.
It would be especially good if the replacement can kick more accurately than Riewoldt.
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I still can't help thinking BJ is they key to it come September
Maybe wishful thinking after witnessing his amazing !st Q way back, but I'm also mindful of his great value upfield
The Farren Ray proposal has merit, as too Zac if their diligent efforts to get Max back to his optimum succeeds
I've been hoping like hell Jimmy could just take that extra step all year
His body strength in and around, and the raking left-footers have been his upside, but it's that vital missing ingredient, I agree
The issue is if you have the third player/lead up whatever you want to call them then you have to use them.
How many times do the other players actually kick it to Gwilt.
I would suggest that the figures and I am sure there are stats somewhere that for every 50 times the saints go inside 50
it is direceted to #12 25 times, #23 15 times, #44 5times and take your pick the rest.
So it is a bit hard on Jimmy to say he is not working as the third tall when his marking opportunities might be 5 a game.
Our problem has always been that #12 is such a focus and we need that plan b and c, that might involve Gwilt or others and getting the deliverers to actually look for those other options.
Milton66 wrote:Can someone please explain what a "lead up forward" actually is?
Fair question milton66, and a term often used and maybe misunderstood.
I could be (and probably am) completely wrong but I would describe it as :
Also known as a "hit-up" forward,
a 183-190cm "half forward flanker" who can lead from the 25-35 metre mark, taking a top 3 defender with him to the 65-70 metre mark.
Ideally a strong mark, good hands, solid through the hips and can swing both sides and drill the ball to "the spot" that the big two should be at.
Can then immediately turn on the forward pressure should the ball rebound, and at the same time having enough impact to make the oppo coach consider putting a top 1 or 2 defender on him.
Just my take on what I've thought to be that type of player.
If only we could have this bloke. Just described a hypothetical great of the game. If we could get a few of these qualities I would behappy.
The forward line is built around two big-marking forwards and two small crumbers, so a flanker like Gwilt is pretty much doing the assists or grabbing a mark here and there for a goal shot. He would be getting more action if he flew against Roo and Kozi in marking duels, but that's not his job. We should also be looking at getting more goals from the midfielders -still a deficiency regardless of winning or not. Speaking of Gwilt, I would love to see him played in the centre as he could play that position like Greg Williams, -strong body, not that quick, but excellent penetrating disposal by hand and foot.. something our midfield lacks a bit.
spert wrote:The forward line is built around two big-marking forwards and two small crumbers, so a flanker like Gwilt is pretty much doing the assists or grabbing a mark here and there for a goal shot. He would be getting more action if he flew against Roo and Kozi in marking duels, but that's not his job. We should also be looking at getting more goals from the midfielders -still a deficiency regardless of winning or not. Speaking of Gwilt, I would love to see him played in the centre as he could play that position like Greg Williams, -strong body, not that quick, but excellent penetrating disposal by hand and foot.. something our midfield lacks a bit.
I'm pretty sure in that QF in 05 he played on the wing or on the ball. I thought that was the psition he was going to end up playing.
I agree with "How many times do the other players actually kick it to Gwilt. "
Gwilt has shown a bit recently IMO. Plus he is a well built unit.
Needs to be used more as a kick to player. Plan B when Kosi and Roo get too much attention.
spert wrote:The forward line is built around two big-marking forwards and two small crumbers, so a flanker like Gwilt is pretty much doing the assists or grabbing a mark here and there for a goal shot. He would be getting more action if he flew against Roo and Kozi in marking duels, but that's not his job. We should also be looking at getting more goals from the midfielders -still a deficiency regardless of winning or not. Speaking of Gwilt, I would love to see him played in the centre as he could play that position like Greg Williams, -strong body, not that quick, but excellent penetrating disposal by hand and foot.. something our midfield lacks a bit.
I'm pretty sure in that QF in 05 he played on the wing or on the ball. I thought that was the psition he was going to end up playing.
there's a bit of truth in that. 
