Paul Cahill and Eljay Connors

[plugger66]

Plugger66 you may wish to get up to date with the new list management rules. CAHILL cant be delisted as was taken via the National Draft last year requires a nadatory 2 years.

Eljay CONNORS will have to be delisted and go on the open market and re-taken via the rookie draft. Risk but they did that with HOWARD...he is one of the players who may come good but it will take much longer than others. He definitley doesn't warrant a senior list position.

This year for the first time Rookie Drafts can be part of a trade deal also 1 rookie upgrade will be included in the compulsory 3 list changes. So when the SAINTS upgrade DAWSON they will then only be required to take two players via the National Draft....

I am actually saying Cahill will not be delisted but i think you will find he can and just get paid out. I dont think that rule ever came in about having to stay 2 years and yes I know we have to delist LJ if we want him as a rookie but again I said I am pretty sure we will keep him. So I am unsure why you are having a go at me. Maybe it should be others who said that but it wasnt me.

[LondonSaint]

Geez, some of yous are harsh. Cahill has carried an injury since drafted last year and you want to de-list him already? I confess I have never seen him play live apart from the Youtube video, but this kid could be a gun.. kicked 180 goals in under 18 football, far more talented than Jarryd Allen at the same age.. Have heard concerns about his attitude/work ethic, but that's something only the coaches would know..

Also, we need rebounding smalls in the backline, Baker alone cannot do the job.. you don't want Blake/gilbert to play on a small... that's why Begley is likely to be retained. Miles I'm not so sure, mature age and have not cracked a game in 2 years..

Anyway.. here is my 2 bobs for the following players
1. X, will not have much trade value after the reco, so retain for another year.

2. Eljay, good skills. however very light, will he ever bulk up and can he play the uncompromising Saints football? I doubt it after not much improvement in 2 years.

3. Leigh Fisher, never even got a look in this season. should be delisted.

4. Max, may retire

5. King, has stated he wants to play on i think.. so, will stay for another year at least.

6. Maguire, maybe a trade bait..

7. Haretuku, apparently has not shown much in VFL reserves. so, delist

8. Brad Howard.. how we draft this guy with a 2nd round pick is still beyond me.. not wanting to sound negative, but Beveridge has missed a trick here.

9. Tunga, Simpkin, Mcgrath, McGarry, Gaertner.. all first year rookies apart from Mcgrath.. all seems fairely talented and should be retained.

So, i'm suggesting let's see 5 changes, with 1 or 2 trade baits.. I don't buy the "this year's draft is poor so let's not do anything", the point of list management is turn over players in hope of finding better players, all a thin draft means is apart from the top 10, everyone else is pretty even.

List management/Player development has been a revelation under Lyon. I hope this continues.

[bergholt]

Geez, some of yous are harsh. Cahill has carried an injury since drafted last year and you want to de-list him already? I confess I have never seen him play live apart from the Youtube video, but this kid could be a gun.. kicked 180 goals in under 18 football, far more talented than Jarryd Allen at the same age.. Have heard concerns about his attitude/work ethic, but that's something only the coaches would know..

i don't want him delisted, just seems that he'd be better moved to the rookie list, to free up a spot on the main list. there's very little downside to this - the only risk is that another club drafts him in the national or rookie drafts before we can, but that would be a pretty big leap for anyone.

[SainterK]

As long as we don't make any mistakes like Hawthorn, they made a royal mess of their delisting of Zac with the intention of picking him up again....

Were they?

Weren't they?

[evertonfc]

If we delist Leigh Fisher and Jarryd Allen [retired], we only have one other spot to shed from the senior list.

I'd think Steven Baker [who only recently turned 29] has at least another year in him. I also think Max has another year in him, but the club may disagree. He's hardly had a hard year playing-wise and is still rated very highly.

I'd probably trade out one or two players, to be honest. Have we even traded a player out since Heath Black?

[WinnersOnly]

I dont think players can be automatically downgraded to the Rookie list - dont they have to be delisted then redrafted. I still believe the 2 year list rule applies even if there contract is paid out they remain on the Senior List.

[Spinner]

As long as we don't make any mistakes like Hawthorn, they made a royal mess of their delisting of Zac with the intention of picking him up again....

Were they?

Weren't they?

Your the one that stated it......I didnt read that, but I didnt know otherwise....

Just wanted to know if this was the case.....

[ace]

Sadly I suspect Jarryd Allen will be dropped off the list.
I think his retirement may indicate this as a possiblity.

[SainterK]

As long as we don't make any mistakes like Hawthorn, they made a royal mess of their delisting of Zac with the intention of picking him up again....

Were they?

Weren't they?

Your the one that stated it......I didnt read that, but I didnt know otherwise....

Just wanted to know if this was the case.....

I was sure I read that somewhere, could someone help me out here?

[ace]

As long as we don't make any mistakes like Hawthorn, they made a royal mess of their delisting of Zac with the intention of picking him up again....

Were they?

Weren't they?

Your the one that stated it......I didnt read that, but I didnt know otherwise....

Just wanted to know if this was the case.....

St Kilda said they thought Hawthorn were going to rookie Dawson so they used their first rookie pick to grab him, before Hawthorn had a chance.
You will need to check out the St Kilda recruiters' statements at that time.

[plugger66]

I dont think players can be automatically downgraded to the Rookie list - dont they have to be delisted then redrafted. I still believe the 2 year list rule applies even if there contract is paid out they remain on the Senior List.

Yes they have to be dropped offf and redrafted and there is no 2 year rule as I stated to you previously when you told me to learn the drafting rules that you got wrong.

[saintsRrising]

With Allen now retired....you would think Cahill would be safe for another year.

[plugger66]

With Allen now retired....you would think Cahill would be safe for another year.

He will be safe because he has a contract and has only been at the club a year but he has a very bad injury and probably will not train till next year.

[ace]

For the record, the base payment for a 2nd year, 3rd or subsequent choice player with nil senior matches is $50,300 for 2010.

If the club were to cut Cahill and he is on a two year contract at base payments it would cost $50,300 against the salary cap.
There may be other costs to the club that don't count in the salary cap.

I am not sure if that can be included in the 2009 cap if there is space remaining.

[ace]

Geez, some of yous are harsh. Cahill has carried an injury since drafted last year and you want to de-list him already? I confess I have never seen him play live apart from the Youtube video, but this kid could be a gun.. kicked 180 goals in under 18 football, far more talented than Jarryd Allen at the same age.. Have heard concerns about his attitude/work ethic, but that's something only the coaches would know.

Yikes, 180, were they all in the same season, how many games, who was he playing for, in which competition, why did both South Australian clubs overlook him.

Feed him to the Lyon.
The Lyon will eat him alive if he slacks off.

[ace]

Chocko Williams has been trying to turn Steven Salopek into a small defender, maybe he would like a ready made replacement in the form of Leigh Fisher as a trade!

[reincarnated]

Chocko Williams has been trying to turn Steven Salopek into a samll defender, maybe he would like a ready made replacement in the form of Leigh Fisher as a trade!

Goodbye Leigh thanks for the memories

[MCG-Unit]

Plugger66 you may wish to get up to date with the new list management rules. CAHILL cant be delisted as was taken via the National Draft last year requires a mandatory 2 years.

.........

I don't know if the rules have changed - I thought draftees have a 2 year contract initially, but if all parties agree they can be traded

I'm quite sure Brooks spent 1 year on Port's list before being traded to the Saints

There are other examples but I don't know off hand

[ace]

From the Senior List you would expect the following -

Possible Trades:
Jarryd ALLEN?
Matt MAGUIRE?
Luke BALL?
Xavier CLARKE?

Long term injured players have no trade value.
The other club never knows what information is being withheld especially if the player knows this is the only way to prolong their career.
The risk is too high, and the recruiter is wise to play safe, use the national draft, don't risk your job on a hail mary trade.

? Did St Kilda know about Fergus Watts' foot problem when they recruited him from Adelaide or did it suddenly appear out of thin air?

[LondonSaint]

Geez, some of yous are harsh. Cahill has carried an injury since drafted last year and you want to de-list him already? I confess I have never seen him play live apart from the Youtube video, but this kid could be a gun.. kicked 180 goals in under 18 football, far more talented than Jarryd Allen at the same age.. Have heard concerns about his attitude/work ethic, but that's something only the coaches would know.

Yikes, 180, were they all in the same season, how many games, who was he playing for, in which competition, why did both South Australian clubs overlook him.

Feed him to the Lyon.
The Lyon will eat him alive if he slacks off.

I think he played FF/CHF, and kicked 180 goals in 3 years playing for Sturt Under 17/18/reserves. that's still 60 goals a season.. question is can he cut it at AFL, but definitely one to persist with for at least another season. LJ on the other hand, is way too light for football, let alone the tough Saints brand football. In my opinion, unless you are like Aussie Jones, you won't survive in AFL. And Aussie Jones LJ is not.. After 2 years in the system without showing too much promise.. (let's face it, kids that were drafted as rookies last year has shown more than LJ.. e.g. De Boer, Pearce from Freo).

One more point about list management... we need to continuously improve our list, hasn't our GT days taught us anything? (sorry to drag this out, but it's true) making the minimum 3 changes a year is not enough if we want to elite.. tough decisions have to be made on dud/stagnant players..

so, in my opinion.. the following players could go at the year end..
- LJ (delist)
- Leigh Fisher (delist)
- Max (retire)
- Allen (retired)
- Haretuku (rookie)
- Brad Howard (rookie)
- Miles (rookie)
that's no including any potential trades... although i doubt anyone would be interested in any of Ball/Maguire/Clarke

[plugger66]

Geez, some of yous are harsh. Cahill has carried an injury since drafted last year and you want to de-list him already? I confess I have never seen him play live apart from the Youtube video, but this kid could be a gun.. kicked 180 goals in under 18 football, far more talented than Jarryd Allen at the same age.. Have heard concerns about his attitude/work ethic, but that's something only the coaches would know.

Yikes, 180, were they all in the same season, how many games, who was he playing for, in which competition, why did both South Australian clubs overlook him.

Feed him to the Lyon.
The Lyon will eat him alive if he slacks off.

I think he played FF/CHF, and kicked 180 goals in 3 years playing for Sturt Under 17/18/reserves. that's still 60 goals a season.. question is can he cut it at AFL, but definitely one to persist with for at least another season. LJ on the other hand, is way too light for football, let alone the tough Saints brand football. In my opinion, unless you are like Aussie Jones, you won't survive in AFL. And Aussie Jones LJ is not.. After 2 years in the system without showing too much promise.. (let's face it, kids that were drafted as rookies last year has shown more than LJ.. e.g. De Boer, Pearce from Freo).

One more point about list management... we need to continuously improve our list, hasn't our GT days taught us anything? (sorry to drag this out, but it's true) making the minimum 3 changes a year is not enough if we want to elite.. tough decisions have to be made on dud/stagnant players..

so, in my opinion.. the following players could go at the year end..
- LJ (delist)
- Leigh Fisher (delist)
- Max (retire)
- Allen (retired)
- Haretuku (rookie)
- Brad Howard (rookie)
- Miles (rookie)
that's no including any potential trades... although i doubt anyone would be interested in any of Ball/Maguire/Clarke

So you dont want the minimum 3 changes because it doesnt turn over our list so you go a massive 4 changes. that should make all the difference.

[bergholt]

With Allen now retired....you would think Cahill would be safe for another year.

yeah, i reckon.

incidentally, hayes and bakes can both go onto the veteran's list next year, can't they? good for the salary cap.