Ball and Hayes

[Batnoe]

We need both of these guys come finals

it showed today with how often we were beaten in the middle and contested posessions....

Armo earnt his spot today, 14 tackles, i would love to see how hard we can look with Ball, Armo, Joey and Hayes in the middle

Hayes is super important, but Ball's tackles and in and under style give us first use. He must come back next week

[LaUrEnCe]

Yes, come back please

[Beekay]

With Armo playing a solid game, who would make way ?

[The Fireman]

I was about to start a thread saying the same thing, we cannot clear the ball after a bounce without Ball and Hayes.
Simple as that.

[Batnoe]

With Armo playing a solid game, who would make way ?

Dawson, we're only playing Melbourne, keep the ball in the middle

But who would we take out? we lost, there are few players that could make way....

Baker didnt do much, Dawson, Gwilt should all be considered a chance to be dropped

I dont think Milne will be even though he didnt do much, as he was still running

[Ghost Like]

We will not win a final without Hayes & Ball in the middle.

They offer too much, clearances, tackles, leadership, heart, pressure...something sadly lacking in today's match.

BJ is not a midfielder, can be used there sparingly to provide relief or break a tag but he's better off as our 'quarterback' off half back or playing as the 3rd forward with licence to head up on the wings and set up across half back when the run of play is with the opposition.

Zac may have given his spot back to Max (if fit)

Gwilt does not offer enough IMO to own a spot in our 22

Geary would be eyeing a spot & IMO Bakes would not be a touch nervous on today's performance

Armo tackled well but the things Ball has supposedly been dropped for were not evident in Armo's game

Jack Steven should be given another game as with his pace, he takes some pressure off Joey and adds an unknown quantity

King, last quarter aside, would be disappointed in his game and Ben McEvoy could have offered more

Very disappointing today but it confirms to me that Hayes and Ball are our keys...besides Roo of course

[ThePunter]

The last time St Kilda played without both Luke Ball and Lenny Hayes befor today?

Round 13, 2002.

[SaintWodonga]

Bring them both straight in. And Geary.

[devil saint]

More than anything we missed their big hearts today. And Max's. Besides Rooey and the three that didn't play and maybe BJ we don't have much ticker.

[borderbarry]

The folly of dropping Max is now apparent. Fancy keeping Dawson at Max's expense. Dawson looked like a big kid out there today, with no idea.

[BaysideSaint]

Lenny Hayes belonged in the race today, and was when I arrived which made me happy.

[Dan Warna]

lenny hayes was missing from the 2006 finals campaign i think.

that was pretty ugly for us after an ordinary melbourne batted us out.

[Thinline]

With Armo playing a solid game, who would make way ?

Dawson, we're only playing Melbourne, keep the ball in the middle

But who would we take out? we lost, there are few players that could make way....

Baker didnt do much, Dawson, Gwilt should all be considered a chance to be dropped

I dont think Milne will be even though he didnt do much, as he was still running

To be honest I'm not sure what aker's role is at the moment. I'd be inclined to replace him with a runner

[philip]

The folly of dropping Max is now apparent. Fancy keeping Dawson at Max's expense. Dawson looked like a big kid out there today, with no idea.

you are closer than you realise in understanding why max was dropped.

not is all as it seems. more was being tried today than people on the forum either understand or are understanding in their analysis.

philip

[Shaggy]

The folly of dropping Max is now apparent. Fancy keeping Dawson at Max's expense. Dawson looked like a big kid out there today, with no idea.

This year Lloyd, Richardson, Fev and Buddy have all put Max in the top two backs they have played on. Thats a serious compliment even if the experts have never made him AA .

Zac has been average with Geelong, Essendon and now North. He may well be getting tired because of his frame and maturity. Geary really fell away end of last year. It happens.

Zac has been great for us most of the year. He will be our next Max but I don't think he is there yet.

[Legendary]

The folly of dropping Max is now apparent. Fancy keeping Dawson at Max's expense. Dawson looked like a big kid out there today, with no idea.

you are closer than you realise in understanding why max was dropped.

not is all as it seems. more was being tried today than people on the forum either understand or are understanding in their analysis.

philip

Sounds a bit mysterious mate, you have some inside knowledge?

I certainly think that over the last 2 weeks, Dawson has been positioned in the maximum pressure positions, and he hasn't performed his best. Is he being tested a bit more by the coaching staff who only want 1 of him or Max in the side come finals?

[Mr Magic]

The folly of dropping Max is now apparent. Fancy keeping Dawson at Max's expense. Dawson looked like a big kid out there today, with no idea.

you are closer than you realise in understanding why max was dropped.

not is all as it seems. more was being tried today than people on the forum either understand or are understanding in their analysis.

philip

Sounds a bit mysterious mate, you have some inside knowledge?

I certainly think that over the last 2 weeks, Dawson has been positioned in the maximum pressure positions, and he hasn't performed his best. Is he being tested a bit more by the coaching staff who only want 1 of him or Max in the side come finals?

That seems plausable.

ALso just think about the following.

Our 2 best 'inside mids all season have been Hayes and Ball. Normally they don't play together on teh fiedl but in rotation.
The selectors would have known that Hayes was going to miss when they selected the team on Thursday.

Why would they not keep Ball in the team knowing that Hayes was going to miss?
Maybe, just maybe, they were 'auditioning' others in that role today?

[philip]

The folly of dropping Max is now apparent. Fancy keeping Dawson at Max's expense. Dawson looked like a big kid out there today, with no idea.

you are closer than you realise in understanding why max was dropped.

not is all as it seems. more was being tried today than people on the forum either understand or are understanding in their analysis.

philip

Sounds a bit mysterious mate, you have some inside knowledge?

I certainly think that over the last 2 weeks, Dawson has been positioned in the maximum pressure positions, and he hasn't performed his best. Is he being tested a bit more by the coaching staff who only want 1 of him or Max in the side come finals?

if we were playing bingo, you would have just won, well done!

other than just that, people on the forum need to look back on the last two weeks and ask themselves, did the boys do things differently to normal, did they play a different style even if a nuance. has there been more one on one play as opposed to zone. have players been leaving their own man to cover or been told not to so better assessments of individuals can be made leading up to the finals, ala, Zac.

all teams try to do what we have been, but not all teams have the luxury of knowing their positions are stitched up. geelong is slightly different as their changes have been largely due to bad luck with injury.

philip

[QuestionOfAccuracy]

Definitely need both Bally and Lenny back for the finals.

On todays performance I think Gwilt, Zac, Armo and King will all be considered to be ommitted for next week.

Armo tried hard but I think his decision making and disposal are still off the mark.

Gwilt has had some good games this year but today was quite error-prone. Zac has had two shockers in a row as he has been exposed when having to play one-on-one.

King was beaten especially in the centre square hitouts and offers very little around the ground, although I think they will be reluctant to lose his experience come finals.

[matrix]

dont agree with king
didnt have a disposal for a fair while there
but
the taps in the second half actually got us winning clearances.
armo read a couple of beauties over the back
as soon as king look like he was going to get the tap, armo just knew it was going over the back and read the play fantastic
he is a bit slow in other areas
but with a full strength midfield this guys tap work is needed

[Teflon]

The folly of dropping Max is now apparent. Fancy keeping Dawson at Max's expense. Dawson looked like a big kid out there today, with no idea.

you are closer than you realise in understanding why max was dropped.

not is all as it seems. more was being tried today than people on the forum either understand or are understanding in their analysis.

philip

Sounds a bit mysterious mate, you have some inside knowledge?

I certainly think that over the last 2 weeks, Dawson has been positioned in the maximum pressure positions, and he hasn't performed his best. Is he being tested a bit more by the coaching staff who only want 1 of him or Max in the side come finals?

if we were playing bingo, you would have just won, well done!

other than just that, people on the forum need to look back on the last two weeks and ask themselves, did the boys do things differently to normal, did they play a different style even if a nuance. has there been more one on one play as opposed to zone. have players been leaving their own man to cover or been told not to so better assessments of individuals can be made leading up to the finals, ala, Zac.

all teams try to do what we have been, but not all teams have the luxury of knowing their positions are stitched up. geelong is slightly different as their changes have been largely due to bad luck with injury.

philip

Phil you got that on any authority? or you got one of those fortune telling black 8 pool balls?

[philip]

i do actually happen to own a lucky 8 ball but rest assured this came from a better authority than that!

philip

[Thinline]

Definitely need both Bally and Lenny back for the finals.

On todays performance I think Gwilt, Zac, Armo and King will all be considered to be ommitted for next week.

Armo tried hard but I think his decision making and disposal are still off the mark.

Gwilt has had some good games this year but today was quite error-prone. Zac has had two shockers in a row as he has been exposed when having to play one-on-one.

King was beaten especially in the centre square hitouts and offers very little around the ground, although I think they will be reluctant to lose his experience come finals.

Wrong. King's tap work in the second half was a clinic in cleanliness even though it didn't translate to contested ball winning at ground level. But his work rate away from the ruck was really bad.

Ergo...

When contested ball success doesn't seem to stem from ruck taps are we better off with a mobile round the ground trier in McEvoy?

I'm definitely warming to the idea.

[rodgerfox]

The last time St Kilda played without both Luke Ball and Lenny Hayes befor today?

Round 13, 2002.

We've played without Lenny, and with a crippled Luke Ball though.

Did Ok (missed top 4 by %) but never really a serious threat without them.

Far better than what we look like now without them however.

Where's the depth when you need it?

[spert]

We had Ball and Hayes together against Essendon, where our midfield got thrashed. NDS is another who needs to lift his game big-time.