What the hell has happend?? Amateur anlaysis here please...

[kaos theory]

Well, we have gome from world beaters to what now??? Can somebody explain it?

OK, as a fraustrated saints fan I will make a first analysis attempt:

First the basic stuff: If the umpires were more neutral, we would have won. If we kicked straight, we would have won.

BUT...that is not the issue. We should have won EASILY, we should have smashed them as we are now getting ready for finals.

We have been beaten easily in the contested ball, just like last week. That is the plan for us, focus on beaten us there, then play either man-on-man, like north did, and use pacey players to run off us.

Why are we suddenly losing contested ball so much? Also, we have dropped off on the tackle count. IMO it is a clear sign our players intensity & effort has droped right off. It also shows the importance of Lenny Hayes....no Lenny...mid-field loses its spirit.....last week he was hampered also, which I think hwy he was rested this week.

But why have we droped off? Why aren't raising to the challenge?

Is our finals training program taking it out of the players and making them lethargic? We played better in the second half, but our output was still poor. Has the finals training been poorly timed? Are the players losing confidence, or getting too cocky???

Our drop off in intensity is causing our structures to fall away and our forward pressure has also gone off.

We need to get that basic thing right, and the rest will follow. Without the ALL the players putting in at a high level, our trademark is rubbish. THIS is our Trademark and we need to get it up:
- Contested ball
- Tackle count
- Forward pressure

[Devilhead]

Before today we were averaging 73.4 tackles a game

We had 76 today

Do some homework before you rant

[bobmurray]

There is nothing wrong with the rant.....

there must be something wrong with the tackles....

[redwhite&blackblood]

We played average footy, Kangas played average footy and the umpiring was blow crap in standard. Aand we eventually lost a very frustrating game!

[kaos theory]

Before today we were averaging 73.4 tackles a game

We had 76 today

Do some homework before you rant

Mate, I was at the game. The tackle count was still poor for that type of game. If was mostly one-on-one, so takling was going to be higher based on that alone.

BUT, what about the contested ball? The forward pressure?

It was crap. Our intenisty/effort was poor. You can't tell me that your happy with that performance... The missed targets, the sloppy play are all a sign of poor focus and intensity.....not good...

[mick13]

We missed a lot of tackles, more than average I reckon.

Too many times they were weak or couldn't even lay it.

That's what got us to 19-0...

[Hughjarce]

One damning Stat is the inside 50:

Saints: 59
NthMelb: 38

Not many teams loose when they enter 50 more than their opposition, not good teams anyway.

We could not convert effectively (only 4 goal kickers as well) and our inside 50 tackles (pressure) was below par.

Also we were beaten in contested ball (no Hayes / Ball).

[saint66au]

We have one bloke who is prepared to run HARD ahead of the footy and provide an option...

N Riewoldt.

We fell back into some bad habits today. Stop-start footy taking ages to try and find an unmarked opponent. On the odd occasion someone ran from behind the footy to take a handpass and create an option or break a line, invariably the resultant kick missed a target.


Regretfully the "kick it to Roo after taking 5 mins to make up your mind" gameplan reared its very ugly head today

[doristhesaint]

The last two weeks today especially we cant seem to hold our tackles as we were in the early part of the season not sure why?

[Devilhead]

Sorry but people are being reactionary and are mouthing off and bagging players without having a clue as to our drop in form

Yes it could be due to heavy loading that our intensity has dropped off - lets hope that is the case

In the meantime people need to have some faith in the players and coaching staff

[Enrico_Misso]

No frontal pressure.
No hitting targets.

Those are the things that got us to 19-0.

We have one week to rediscover our game plan.

[hotdish]

CONTESTED POSSESSIONS!!!

RL identified this in the post-media interview last week, about how we lost it.

We lost again today that key stat.

i'm sure he will mention it in this weeks media conference.

L Hayes (and maybe Ball for Dempster) will strengthen us in that area.

[felixleo]

We are flat at the moment. I would think that the pressure for spots in the side would have prevented this but obviously it hasn't. With the bye next week I don't see this as the ideal preparation for the finals.

[HarveysDeciple]

No one eats their own quite like a sainter!

[GrumpyOne]

Simple reason we lost - We can't be toppled from top spot.

Players are only putting in 80 - 85%, saving themselves for the finals, with the notable exception of N Riewoldt, who never gives less than 120%.

Lets hope they can snap themselves out of their lethargy before the real stuff starts.

No worries about next week though. The Demons are so intent on retaining the priority pick, its a wonder that they don't run out to the tune of "Happy Birthday"".

[The Craw]

Simple reason we lost - We can't be toppled from top spot.

Players are only putting in 80 - 85%, saving themselves for the finals, with the notable exception of N Riewoldt, who never gives less than 120%.

Lets hope they can snap themselves out of their lethargy before the real stuff starts.

No worries about next week though. The Demons are so intent on retaining the priority pick, its a wonder that they don't run out to the tune of "Happy Birthday"".

Snap... only going through the motions. No injuries all good. Why on earth would you put your body on the line for a game that meant nothing.

The roo's aren't playing in the finals and need to impress a new coach.

I couldn't give a stuff if we lose 3 in row.

Come finals....... mark my words...god help whoever the saints meet. We'll smash em.

Show some aggots peeps... bigger picture here.

[kaos theory]

OK, after reading the posts and listening to RL's bizzare press conference, here are the concluding reasons for our two losses in a row:

A - We have been up for 19 games, its a very long season & players are mentally not fully focused on these last few 'dead rubber' games and are looking to the finals. Therefore we can expect a major step up in performance come finals.

B - The players are coming of a loaded training program and are lethargic atm, but in two weeks time they will be flying out of the blocks.

C - Missing Lenny & Bally, bad umpiring decisions, poor goal kicking and player <insert favourate whipping boy here> caused the loss.

RL says A......Since I know SFA about the inner sanctum....I will take his word for it....

[Dal_Santos_Gal]

IMO its the contested ball and tackles for whats it worth and yes I know we layed 76 tackles which meets our season average but I would love to know the stat of how many STUCK and what our season average is on that.

[sunsaint]

Before today we were averaging 73.4 tackles a game

We had 76 today

Do some homework before you rant

the rant is valid
this year the teams that have pushed us have come close or beaten us in the tackle count, but we still managed to scrape home for 18-0 record,
however in the last three weeks:
* WE smashed hawks in the tackle count (business as usual with a reserves side)
* WE toped Ess in the tackle count but they still won due to us being second to the ball, their run, our lack of 4 quarter effort.
* this week WE lost the tackle count and the Roos won.
its not just about the numbers
its about commitment to attacking the ball not letting the opposition get it in the first place.
its about the ferociousness at the ball carrier.

in the last two games we have seen a pre-2009 StKilda side, and that is the worry

[bigcarl]

One damning Stat is the inside 50:

Saints: 59
NthMelb: 38

Not many teams loose when they enter 50 more than their opposition, not good teams anyway.

We could not convert effectively (only 4 goal kickers as well) and our inside 50 tackles (pressure) was below par.

Also we were beaten in contested ball (no Hayes / Ball).

spot on.

[samoht]

We started off as if the game didn't matter and were playing catch up footy the rest of the game.

The fact we had 21 more inside 50's means we wanted to win, but our forward efficiency was down and wasn't helped by poor delivery into the forward 50 and poor shooting for goal.

We rely too much on our tall forwards and the smalls (Schneider and Milne) got monstered and pushed around today.
We have less weaknesses than other teams - but our main weakness(and maybe the only area we're weak in) I think is we lack effective medium sized forwards.

Milne has been ineffective in finals and in pressure game situations - and was ineffective again today as he tried to play like a medium sized forward instead of being front and centre.

[Moccha]

One damning Stat is the inside 50:

Saints: 59
NthMelb: 38
Not many teams loose when they enter 50 more than their opposition, not good teams anyway.

We could not convert effectively (only 4 goal kickers as well) and our inside 50 tackles (pressure) was below par.

Also we were beaten in contested ball (no Hayes / Ball).

That's unbelievable. Goes to show the defensive unit was poor

[villasaint]

what were we playing for today? nothing to put it simply, and that reflects in the players effort. Collingwood have been playing for third over the past six weeks and want it real bad and their win loss record reflects it. Doggies same again. Not much to worry about in my opinion, come finals the boys are going to be pumped and we will win. Last year Hawks lost round 19 and 20 by my recolection (i could be wrong). The absolute need to win isn't there so the effort is spasmodic at best. When it really counts we will win. No doubt

[matrix]

thought some might of thought they were playing for a spot in a finals side

[Moccha]

thought some might of thought they were playing for a spot in a finals side

true, however I believe we'll move up a few gears when the real stuff starts.

At the moment it's all powder puff stuff