it may that the saints will play Collingwood in the first week, or if the make it to the grand final it will be pies veerses the saints.
at full strenght what are the differences between the two teams?
they do have a number of fast players
Wood and Fraser will probably be their rucks
Didak, thomas, Davis and swan are their dangerous players.
they have some good forwards and they like to go around on the outskirts.
they also like to go man on man. which the saints have a harder time with (although we still win with that tactic)
The pies - Saints Differences
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Saintersss
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- We have better rucks. (Gardiner & King V Fraser & Brown)
- They will struggle to contain our forwards. Presti may be able to shut down Kosi, but who can shut down Roo? And obrien always struggles on Milne.
- We can contain their forwards. Blake/Gilbert on Cloke, Dawson/Hudghton on Anthony, Gilbert/Fisher on Medhurst, Baker on Davis/dick.
- We have more quality in our midfield depth. When Ball is struggling to find a spot in our midfield, you know the quality runs deep.
Overall I think we have them covered quite well, but anything can happen.
IMO Geelong are still our main threat.
- They will struggle to contain our forwards. Presti may be able to shut down Kosi, but who can shut down Roo? And obrien always struggles on Milne.
- We can contain their forwards. Blake/Gilbert on Cloke, Dawson/Hudghton on Anthony, Gilbert/Fisher on Medhurst, Baker on Davis/dick.
- We have more quality in our midfield depth. When Ball is struggling to find a spot in our midfield, you know the quality runs deep.
Overall I think we have them covered quite well, but anything can happen.
IMO Geelong are still our main threat.
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aussiejones
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Watching them at the weekend "they have some good forwards and they like to go around on the outskirts." Its a kick and mark game , but , that said our pressure will prevent possession therefore their opportunity to kick unharrassed.
They have dangerous quick players line Davis and Didak.
We had more than double the tackles compared to Collingwood.
Even if they go one on one , we play an entirely different game .
IMO they are a danger especially if they get a run on , but our shut down tackling game will show them up.
They have dangerous quick players line Davis and Didak.
We had more than double the tackles compared to Collingwood.
Even if they go one on one , we play an entirely different game .
IMO they are a danger especially if they get a run on , but our shut down tackling game will show them up.
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InkerSaint
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The St. Kilda - Collingwood difference?
Collingwood lack a spine. They are easily demoralised.
The Saints know that if they dig deep they can turn a game around. They have complete confidence in their game plan knowing that it will work for them.
Combined with this group's hunger for success they are unstoppable.
Collingwood lack a spine. They are easily demoralised.
The Saints know that if they dig deep they can turn a game around. They have complete confidence in their game plan knowing that it will work for them.
Combined with this group's hunger for success they are unstoppable.
"... You want to pose a threat to the opposition in as many ways as you can, both defensively and offensively. We've got a responsibility to explore all those possibilities - and we will."
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Thinline
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aussiejones wrote:Watching them at the weekend "they have some good forwards and they like to go around on the outskirts." Its a kick and mark game , but , that said our pressure will prevent possession therefore their opportunity to kick unharrassed.
They have dangerous quick players line Davis and Didak.
We had more than double the tackles compared to Collingwood.
Even if they go one on one , we play an entirely different game .
IMO they are a danger especially if they get a run on , but our shut down tackling game will show them up.
Adelaide made only 39 tackles.
Crows put them under very little physical pressure.
We'll make them wilt.
We also have key position talent that they don't share and their much lauded small forwards are extraordinarily selfish outside players of a type that we expose with monotonous regularity.
Pies are not a threat IMO.
Geelong, Carlton and the Dogs (if they emerge from their slump) are sides with speed and skill and the capacity to attack us through the corridor on their day. They are much more threatening than Collingwood.
"The inches we need are everywhere around us. They're in every break in the game. Every minute, every second. On this team we fight for that inch. On this team we tear ourselves and everyone around us to pieces for that inch. We claw with our fingernails for that inch. Because we know when we add up all those inches that's gonna make the f***in' difference between winning and losing! Between living and dying!'
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older saint
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Wouldn't say they lack spine - 15pts down against adel in adel and win by 21?InkerSaint wrote:The St. Kilda - Collingwood difference?
Collingwood lack a spine. They are easily demoralised.
The Saints know that if they dig deep they can turn a game around. They have complete confidence in their game plan knowing that it will work for them.
Combined with this group's hunger for success they are unstoppable.
Saonts are a better team than Pies however Malthouse teams are well drilled andwill cause some headaches in finals. Need to not let them do what they want and not sure about their plan B.
Must go through Maxwells man as he zones off beautifully, ala Harley 2007/2008. Need to see Gwilt as lead up forward and use him to make Maxwell accountable, or alternatives push him to the square.
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bozza1980
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True and their forward line is versatile and quick and caused real problems last year.older saint wrote:Wouldn't say they lack spine - 15pts down against adel in adel and win by 21?InkerSaint wrote:The St. Kilda - Collingwood difference?
Collingwood lack a spine. They are easily demoralised.
The Saints know that if they dig deep they can turn a game around. They have complete confidence in their game plan knowing that it will work for them.
Combined with this group's hunger for success they are unstoppable.
Saonts are a better team than Pies however Malthouse teams are well drilled andwill cause some headaches in finals. Need to not let them do what they want and not sure about their plan B.
Must go through Maxwells man as he zones off beautifully, ala Harley 2007/2008. Need to see Gwilt as lead up forward and use him to make Maxwell accountable, or alternatives push him to the square.
I know we are a different proposition this year but they did beat us when we were up and about last year. That said they also got flogged by the Hawks a couple of weeks ago.
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saintsRrising
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The Pies are very reliant on their stars playing blinders...though they do have good team play. While goals from the boundary are great to watch, asa team you do not want to be relying on them.
But their key forwards are normally poor.
IMO the Pies will struggle to hold our key forwards which will give us the edge.
Our defensive game needs to stay tight to stop Didak, Davis and Co getting on the run for easy shots on goal.
The keey to beating the Pies is our pressure...an an aspect of our game that the Pies have started copying.
But their key forwards are normally poor.
IMO the Pies will struggle to hold our key forwards which will give us the edge.
Our defensive game needs to stay tight to stop Didak, Davis and Co getting on the run for easy shots on goal.
The keey to beating the Pies is our pressure...an an aspect of our game that the Pies have started copying.
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Darrel Baldock
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On the weekend I watched on telly both the Saints game and the Pies game. The difference was remarkable. The tackling intensity was missing from the Pies game. If you had watched only the Pies game you would have remarked on their fine forward defensuve pressure. But if you watched both, then the Pies game seemed to feature lots of wide open spaces for players to run into.
Compare this with Launceston where, If you were a Hawthorn player, you would have had about a metre before you were cut down by a Saints tackle. Nobody does it like St Kilda. Collingwood is a good side by conventional measure but the Saints play 21st Century footy in which offense is a consequence of defensive pressure, all over the ground. Collingwood has no answer for this and it will break down their circumferential approach to goal.
Compare this with Launceston where, If you were a Hawthorn player, you would have had about a metre before you were cut down by a Saints tackle. Nobody does it like St Kilda. Collingwood is a good side by conventional measure but the Saints play 21st Century footy in which offense is a consequence of defensive pressure, all over the ground. Collingwood has no answer for this and it will break down their circumferential approach to goal.
Ian Cooper was too thin
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spert
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My thoughts exactly -the team with a strong spine from back to forward usually wins out. I have not seen a lot of pressure like we apply, applied to the Woods by other teams...Adelaide did a resonable job the other day, but took the foot off the accelerator in the second half and let the Woods back in.InkerSaint wrote:The St. Kilda - Collingwood difference?
Collingwood lack a spine. They are easily demoralised.
The Saints know that if they dig deep they can turn a game around. They have complete confidence in their game plan knowing that it will work for them.
Combined with this group's hunger for success they are unstoppable.
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Young Georgie
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Davis is in dangerous form (probably All Australian any tick of the clock) and he is a barometer of how well the Pies are going. Swan, Didak and to a certain extent Pendlebury/Medhurst and Daisy can set them alight but no-one to the extent of Neon Leon.
In last year's final it was CJ on Davis that was crucial to the Saints win as he applied the sort of pressure that we've seen all across the team this year and planted the seed of doubt. Davis heard footsteps every time he received and was dumped regularly - no impact Davis, no success Pies.
Stop or slow the game breakers and the Pies become brittle.
In last year's final it was CJ on Davis that was crucial to the Saints win as he applied the sort of pressure that we've seen all across the team this year and planted the seed of doubt. Davis heard footsteps every time he received and was dumped regularly - no impact Davis, no success Pies.
Stop or slow the game breakers and the Pies become brittle.
Graceful, elusive, strong overhead and no Easybeat!
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milney044
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The difference?
You could argue that Collingwood have more match winners but i believe we have more players capable of getting us to a winning position.
I also believe we have greater leadership by a long shot. Riewoldt and Hayes are quite a pair...matched with Maxwell..and... who?
I imagine if the Pies had a Buckley/ Burns type they'd be a better side as a whole as they have that leader to guide the way. They have Maxwell who might be a solid defender but the fact that their Captain is a defender to begin with isn't promising. I am aware that Harley is a defender but the Cats have plenty of leadership through their midfield, i'm not sure it's the same at Collingwood.
The pies are certainly exciting when they're up and going and they celebrate a goal like it's Christmas, i'm just not sure if they are mature enough to go all the way. At least i hope they're not!!!
You could argue that Collingwood have more match winners but i believe we have more players capable of getting us to a winning position.
I also believe we have greater leadership by a long shot. Riewoldt and Hayes are quite a pair...matched with Maxwell..and... who?
I imagine if the Pies had a Buckley/ Burns type they'd be a better side as a whole as they have that leader to guide the way. They have Maxwell who might be a solid defender but the fact that their Captain is a defender to begin with isn't promising. I am aware that Harley is a defender but the Cats have plenty of leadership through their midfield, i'm not sure it's the same at Collingwood.
The pies are certainly exciting when they're up and going and they celebrate a goal like it's Christmas, i'm just not sure if they are mature enough to go all the way. At least i hope they're not!!!
Destiny. It's in our hands.
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ace
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The pies are horrible.
They are not hot.
They are full of gristle, fat, and unmentionables.
Not worth a cent.
The Saints are the best.
They are hot.
They are full of talented, dedicated players.
And worth every cent.
They are not hot.
They are full of gristle, fat, and unmentionables.
Not worth a cent.
The Saints are the best.
They are hot.
They are full of talented, dedicated players.
And worth every cent.
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When I was a young child, I knew that I knew so much about so much.
Now that I am old and know so much more, I know that I know so much about so little, and so little about so much.
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You are not going to lose your job to AI.
You are going lose your job to somebody who uses AI.
Your company is not going to go out of business because of AI.
Your company is going to go out of business because another company used AI.
- Jensen Huang, CEO of NVIDIA
When I was a young child, I knew that I knew so much about so much.
Now that I am old and know so much more, I know that I know so much about so little, and so little about so much.
If you are not engaging AI actively and aggressively, you are doing it wrong.
You are not going to lose your job to AI.
You are going lose your job to somebody who uses AI.
Your company is not going to go out of business because of AI.
Your company is going to go out of business because another company used AI.
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True Blue Sainter
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The OP said that Thomas is in their most dangerous players, but failed to include Pendlebury. If we can minimise the influence of Pendles & Swan, we go 90% of the way to victory. The rest of their midfield only plays in spurts (i.e. Didak, Davis, O'Bree etc).
Dempster on Swan
Jones on Pendlebury
Baker on Davis
Gram on Didak (make him accountable)
Dempster on Swan
Jones on Pendlebury
Baker on Davis
Gram on Didak (make him accountable)
The Saints are coming!
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older saint
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Backman as captain is not a bad thing - Frawley, Harley as mentioned ( Cats have greatplayers but apart from Ling no leader in the middle), Worsfold, Etc. More about the qualities of the inidividual, not where he plays.milney044 wrote:The difference?
You could argue that Collingwood have more match winners but i believe we have more players capable of getting us to a winning position.
I also believe we have greater leadership by a long shot. Riewoldt and Hayes are quite a pair...matched with Maxwell..and... who?
I imagine if the Pies had a Buckley/ Burns type they'd be a better side as a whole as they have that leader to guide the way. They have Maxwell who might be a solid defender but the fact that their Captain is a defender to begin with isn't promising. I am aware that Harley is a defender but the Cats have plenty of leadership through their midfield, i'm not sure it's the same at Collingwood.
The pies are certainly exciting when they're up and going and they celebrate a goal like it's Christmas, i'm just not sure if they are mature enough to go all the way. At least i hope they're not!!!
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Unforgiven
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Agree with Dempster on SwanTrue Blue Sainter wrote:
Dempster on Swan
Jones on Pendlebury
Baker on Davis
Gram on Didak (make him accountable)
I'd go Jones on Leon
Baker will probably get Dick (as Didak/Leon play midfield, Bakes no that fit)
Pendlebury will have to go head to head with a Montagna type
Davis I am unsure on, I'd be tempted to have someone going the other way on him, although it's risky.
Mainly I just can't see Baker playing on one of Leon or Didak purely because they would run him ragged. Bakes is a fine player, but the days where he could run all day and limit judd to 7 touches is past.[/b]
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aussierules0k
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milney044
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Yeah good point i understand that.. i would add Bartel to Geelong's list of leaders in the middle. I guess regardless of his position i do not rate Maxwell as captain material in the form of say a Nick Riewoldt or Nathan Buckley. However i am not in the inner sanctum and he might indeed be a great captain. His ability however is no where near their status regardless, which i consider a negative for their side.older saint wrote:Backman as captain is not a bad thing - Frawley, Harley as mentioned ( Cats have greatplayers but apart from Ling no leader in the middle), Worsfold, Etc. More about the qualities of the inidividual, not where he plays.milney044 wrote:The difference?
You could argue that Collingwood have more match winners but i believe we have more players capable of getting us to a winning position.
I also believe we have greater leadership by a long shot. Riewoldt and Hayes are quite a pair...matched with Maxwell..and... who?
I imagine if the Pies had a Buckley/ Burns type they'd be a better side as a whole as they have that leader to guide the way. They have Maxwell who might be a solid defender but the fact that their Captain is a defender to begin with isn't promising. I am aware that Harley is a defender but the Cats have plenty of leadership through their midfield, i'm not sure it's the same at Collingwood.
The pies are certainly exciting when they're up and going and they celebrate a goal like it's Christmas, i'm just not sure if they are mature enough to go all the way. At least i hope they're not!!!
Destiny. It's in our hands.
Harder. Better. Faster. Stronger.
If Gram played on Didak he would be Collingwoods best player IMO.True Blue Sainter wrote:The OP said that Thomas is in their most dangerous players, but failed to include Pendlebury. If we can minimise the influence of Pendles & Swan, we go 90% of the way to victory. The rest of their midfield only plays in spurts (i.e. Didak, Davis, O'Bree etc).
Dempster on Swan
Jones on Pendlebury
Baker on Davis
Gram on Didak (make him accountable)
Gram is terrible as a stopper.
We have not had 4 run with jobs all year, we will not start any time soon. Especially against Clooingwood.
Maybe this year?
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Milton66
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WE know how to stop opponents from scoring. They do not.
If a team cuts off our supply, we are still good enough to keep them to a lower score. Just look at last week's game.
Just look at how many times we have kept teams to 2 goals or less in a quater this year.
Don't buy into the media hype. There IS a MASSIVE gap.
If a team cuts off our supply, we are still good enough to keep them to a lower score. Just look at last week's game.
Just look at how many times we have kept teams to 2 goals or less in a quater this year.
Don't buy into the media hype. There IS a MASSIVE gap.
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Mr Magic
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I reckon we need to lock down 3 players
Shaw
Didak
Davis
Mini to Shaw
Dempster to either Didak or Davis and CJ to the other.
Lenny to go head to head with Swan
Interestingly very few teams tag Swan - they obviously feel there are others who are more dangerous with the footy.
Shaw is the key to launching their counter-attack off the half back line.
Mini (or Schneids) can handle him and hurt him going the other way.
Maxweel is playing like Harley/Millburn - zoning off his opponent to become the third man up against the key forwsrd (Roo).
We have to make him accountable, and use whoever he plays on so that if he decides to zone off he is punished on the scoreboard.
BJ would be perfect for that.
Shaw
Didak
Davis
Mini to Shaw
Dempster to either Didak or Davis and CJ to the other.
Lenny to go head to head with Swan
Interestingly very few teams tag Swan - they obviously feel there are others who are more dangerous with the footy.
Shaw is the key to launching their counter-attack off the half back line.
Mini (or Schneids) can handle him and hurt him going the other way.
Maxweel is playing like Harley/Millburn - zoning off his opponent to become the third man up against the key forwsrd (Roo).
We have to make him accountable, and use whoever he plays on so that if he decides to zone off he is punished on the scoreboard.
BJ would be perfect for that.
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CeilidhSaint
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All our coaches have been assigned to opposition teams to scout/review. I think our assistant coaches are incredibly good.
I have faith in our analysis of other teams to know how to beat them, and the talent, will and rabid desire to do it.
I have faith in our analysis of other teams to know how to beat them, and the talent, will and rabid desire to do it.
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OK, this will probably sound a bit basic, so I apologise in advance.
One of our strengths, and one that was proven against the Hawks on the weekend, is to dare a team to play throught the main corridor, then boom!
Collingwood are comfortable, and in fact very skilled, at playing down the boundary line.
This to me, shows that they could perhaps devise a game plan come finals, that would be challenging to us?
I am not saying that it could undo us, or that we would neccessary struggle, just that perhaps it would prove to be challenging?
One of our strengths, and one that was proven against the Hawks on the weekend, is to dare a team to play throught the main corridor, then boom!
Collingwood are comfortable, and in fact very skilled, at playing down the boundary line.
This to me, shows that they could perhaps devise a game plan come finals, that would be challenging to us?
I am not saying that it could undo us, or that we would neccessary struggle, just that perhaps it would prove to be challenging?