Max must go...

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steph
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Post: # 793435Post steph »

groupie1 wrote:what kind of fuckwitting twat would start such a thread as this? You monkey... I won't repeat what everyone else said about how good Max is as a footballer, because it would be adding nothing. But another thought: Zac Dawson has been good compared to what we expected of him. If you look closely at the footage from this year, which you obviously won't because you're a muppet and a tosser, Zac, while showing he may mature into a good full-back over the next couple of years, has clearly shown he is NOWHERE NEAR Max Hudghton in terms of technique, reading play, tactics, balance during closing, defensive timing, and just all that freakish defensive talent Max Hudghton has been displaying for 10 years. Max has been written off many times before by dickheads like you. Robert Walls described him last year as being on his last legs, only a month before calling him the best defender in the game. MORONS and TOOLS like you and Robert Walls who dominate the AFL discourse with mindless soundbites wouldn't know your arses from your elbows. This one poor game ain't nothin. And you're a f****** twit. Stop talking. Pull your head in. Your opinions are stupid, your ideas are derivative and reactive and NOT WORTH MY TIME READING. The only reason I decided to respond to this post was to make sure, beyond all doubt, that you knew how f****** stupid you were.

Why don't you answer this question. When Max has the ball, what are his strengths? Unfortunately, this is the area of Max's game that has always let him down. He is by far the worst disposal in our side. Sure he has played within his limitations, however now we have Dawson, who is far less limited, yet just as accomplished at the defensive side of his game.


Oh and here's a tip. When you get personal and start swearing your head off, you lose credibility. Just construct a valid argument, and you may be taken seriously.

You have about as much composure as Max has with the ball.


claystreet
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Post: # 793437Post claystreet »

Does Max need to take a dump?

Max if you gotta go man phew :? smellin' like that it better be the doctor.

Max will be staying

8-)


tezza1
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Post: # 793439Post tezza1 »

by far the worst disposal ????????

I think you will find when it comes to brain fade clangers one Jason Blake takes some tossing . Certainly i wouldnt class max as worse than him.

And thats not taking anything away from Blake because he is an honest trier who gives his all .


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steph
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Post: # 793446Post steph »

tezza1 wrote:by far the worst disposal ????????

I think you will find when it comes to brain fade clangers one Jason Blake takes some tossing . Certainly i wouldnt class max as worse than him.

And thats not taking anything away from Blake because he is an honest trier who gives his all .

Whilst i agree that Blake's disposal is questionable, i feel more comfortable with the ball in his hands than i do Max's hands. Max lacks composure and decisiveness when he has the ball, and as a result often dishes off to a player who is under intense pressure. Happened in the early stages of the first quarter on the weekend.


FullMonty
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Post: # 793456Post FullMonty »

How quickly we forget.


Montyrules!
steph
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Post: # 793477Post steph »

FullMonty wrote:How quickly we forget.
This comment typifies the attitude of the sentimental supporter.

How good Max WAS is irrelevant to me when a grand final is on the line.

I care about how good he is NOW.


clarky449
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Post: # 793481Post clarky449 »

Max is in our 22, thats all i gotta say


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Dan Warna
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Post: # 793483Post Dan Warna »

max is one of the best defenders in the league, even now.

his disposal isn't great, but it isn't critically bad.

no player is perfect.

if you are waiting for a player who is perfect then you'll be waiting for a long time, any player can be deconstructed easily.


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max#8
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Post: # 793498Post max#8 »

[/quote] Whilst i agree that Blake's disposal is questionable, i feel more comfortable with the ball in his hands than i do Max's hands. Max lacks composure and decisiveness when he has the ball, and as a result often dishes off to a player who is under intense pressure. Happened in the early stages of the first quarter on the weekend.[/quote]
just gonna put it out there from 80 disposals max effectiveness is at 92 % although stats can be misleading i dont think that you could say he is that terrible with the ball


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mick13
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Post: # 793501Post mick13 »

Max's defensive work will save more goals than he will concede due to his poor disposal.


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Post: # 793503Post max#8 »

steph wrote:
FullMonty wrote:How quickly we forget.
This comment typifies the attitude of the sentimental supporter.

How good Max WAS is irrelevant to me when a grand final is on the line.

I care about how good he is NOW.
if you want to talk about how good he IS lets see how he went last week? whats this?? kept roughhead to only one and stopped franklin when on him?? there was numerous times when max laid a tackle which stopped a goal. so id say he isnt going to bad now thanks very much you muppet. one bad game and evry1 jumps on his back. max has had another good year and will be vital in our finals campaign because unlike dawson can also take a small/medium forward. write back when you have something factual to say


steph
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Post: # 793508Post steph »

max#8 wrote:
Whilst i agree that Blake's disposal is questionable, i feel more comfortable with the ball in his hands than i do Max's hands. Max lacks composure and decisiveness when he has the ball, and as a result often dishes off to a player who is under intense pressure. Happened in the early stages of the first quarter on the weekend.[/quote]
just gonna put it out there from 80 disposals max effectiveness is at 92 % although stats can be misleading i dont think that you could say he is that terrible with the ball[/quote]


ok, lets just define what champion data considers an effective kick.

"Effective short kicks are less than 40 metres that result in uncontested possession to a teammate"

If you watch the saints properly, you will notice that we retain possession in the backline via short chip kicks to an uncontested situation. This is where players like Max get their disposal efficiency up, as they are only required to kick sideways or backwards to a team-mate. The saints players, and opposition alike, know that Max wont kick the ball more than 15-20m, and to an un-manned player. This is the sole reason he has a high efficiency.

My argument, is why would we have him over Dawson when Dawson can kick(and seeing as its relevant to you, Dawsons efficiency is at 88%), and is just as good a defender?

You can stick up for his defensive game all you like, but his poor disposal is someting that is not negotiable. Don't be fooled by the stats.


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xander
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Post: # 793511Post xander »

This is not really related to max's form at the moment but did anyone hear how richo said max was his toughest opponent in a mike sheahan interview on fox sports. Good to see max is starting to get recognition for his years of good work.


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Post: # 793515Post max#8 »

steph wrote:
max#8 wrote:
Whilst i agree that Blake's disposal is questionable, i feel more comfortable with the ball in his hands than i do Max's hands. Max lacks composure and decisiveness when he has the ball, and as a result often dishes off to a player who is under intense pressure. Happened in the early stages of the first quarter on the weekend.
just gonna put it out there from 80 disposals max effectiveness is at 92 % although stats can be misleading i dont think that you could say he is that terrible with the ball[/quote]


ok, lets just define what champion data considers an effective kick.

"Effective short kicks are less than 40 metres that result in uncontested possession to a teammate"

If you watch the saints properly, you will notice that we retain possession in the backline via short chip kicks to an uncontested situation. This is where players like Max get their disposal efficiency up, as they are only required to kick sideways or backwards to a team-mate. The saints players, and opposition alike, know that Max wont kick the ball more than 15-20m, and to an un-manned player. This is the sole reason he has a high efficiency.

My argument, is why would we have him over Dawson when Dawson can kick(and seeing as its relevant to you, Dawsons efficiency is at 88%), and is just as good a defender?

You can stick up for his defensive game all you like, but his poor disposal is someting that is not negotiable. Don't be fooled by the stats.[/quote]

his disposal?? hes not in the team to dispose HES THERE TO DEFEND. i never called for dawsons head. i believe they can both play and will both play in the same team. i just think it is ignorant for a person to say that max will be dropped when he has kept
rd11. hale 0 goals, 4 touches
rd12. Fev 2 goals (one from interchange mistake)
rd 17. Johnson 0 goals
rd18 sydney. one bad game and im glad to admit that
rd 19. roughead one (snap in play)

There are some stats that do count. he is crucial in our defence as he has kept big names to few touches in past years but as you see above this year aswell. so dont come telling me that his disposal is hurting us to badly because im pretty sure is job is to negate not create


steph
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Post: # 793521Post steph »

max#8 wrote:
steph wrote:
FullMonty wrote:How quickly we forget.
This comment typifies the attitude of the sentimental supporter.

How good Max WAS is irrelevant to me when a grand final is on the line.

I care about how good he is NOW.
if you want to talk about how good he IS lets see how he went last week? whats this?? kept roughhead to only one and stopped franklin when on him?? there was numerous times when max laid a tackle which stopped a goal. so id say he isnt going to bad now thanks very much you muppet. one bad game and evry1 jumps on his back. max has had another good year and will be vital in our finals campaign because unlike dawson can also take a small/medium forward. write back when you have something factual to say
why is it you are getting so carried away. I have merely stated that Dawson is a better option than Max, not that Max is a hopeless wannabee. Additionally, Dawson and Max rotated on those two all day, so why are you not giving any credit to Dawson?

My only criticism of Max is his disposal and his lack of composure under pressure, not his defensive skills. If Dawson wasn't on the list, i'd be fine with Max in the side. However i dont see room for him considering how good Dawson has been this year.


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Post: # 793523Post Con Gorozidis »

i have no intention of getting into this argument. max is somewhere between 12 and 22 i reckon in rankings but team balance will decide his fate come finals time (him and blake might be competing for 1 spot?)

but i am quite interested in this efficiency debate in general. can someone point me to the stats on this? id be interestd to see these stats for all 28 ( or whatever the number is )players we have used this year...

any reply would be appreciated. i havent seen the stats but i have a feeling someone with a beautiful lokoing kick like gwilt will have bad % but someone with a shocking looking kick like cj might have an ok %. im just interested to see. this is just a g.ut feeling


steph
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Post: # 793525Post steph »

max#8 wrote:
steph wrote:
max#8 wrote:
Whilst i agree that Blake's disposal is questionable, i feel more comfortable with the ball in his hands than i do Max's hands. Max lacks composure and decisiveness when he has the ball, and as a result often dishes off to a player who is under intense pressure. Happened in the early stages of the first quarter on the weekend.
just gonna put it out there from 80 disposals max effectiveness is at 92 % although stats can be misleading i dont think that you could say he is that terrible with the ball

ok, lets just define what champion data considers an effective kick.

"Effective short kicks are less than 40 metres that result in uncontested possession to a teammate"

If you watch the saints properly, you will notice that we retain possession in the backline via short chip kicks to an uncontested situation. This is where players like Max get their disposal efficiency up, as they are only required to kick sideways or backwards to a team-mate. The saints players, and opposition alike, know that Max wont kick the ball more than 15-20m, and to an un-manned player. This is the sole reason he has a high efficiency.

My argument, is why would we have him over Dawson when Dawson can kick(and seeing as its relevant to you, Dawsons efficiency is at 88%), and is just as good a defender?

You can stick up for his defensive game all you like, but his poor disposal is someting that is not negotiable. Don't be fooled by the stats.[/quote]

his disposal?? hes not in the team to dispose HES THERE TO DEFEND. i never called for dawsons head. i believe they can both play and will both play in the same team. i just think it is ignorant for a person to say that max will be dropped when he has kept
rd11. hale 0 goals, 4 touches
rd12. Fev 2 goals (one from interchange mistake)
rd 17. Johnson 0 goals
rd18 sydney. one bad game and im glad to admit that
rd 19. roughead one (snap in play)

There are some stats that do count. he is crucial in our defence as he has kept big names to few touches in past years but as you see above this year aswell. so dont come telling me that his disposal is hurting us to badly because im pretty sure is job is to negate not create[/quote]


In our current game plan, defenders need to be good users of the ball. Max is not a good user of the ball. Sure he has stopped those players, but I will argue that Dawson is just as good a stopper.

The reason I dont see room for him in the back 6 is because i feel that Gilbert, Fisher, Baker, Raph, Dawson and Blake are all ahead of him.


steph
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Post: # 793528Post steph »

Con Gorozidis wrote:i have no intention of getting into this argument. max is somewhere between 12 and 22 i reckon in rankings but team balance will decide his fate come finals time (him and blake might be competing for 1 spot?)

but i am quite interested in this efficiency debate in general. can someone point me to the stats on this? id be interestd to see these stats for all 28 ( or whatever the number is )players we have used this year...

any reply would be appreciated. i havent seen the stats but i have a feeling someone with a beautiful lokoing kick like gwilt will have bad % but someone with a shocking looking kick like cj might have an ok %. im just interested to see. this is just a g.ut feeling

Follow this link......you can add and remove whatever stats u are interested in.

http://www.saints.com.au/stats/tabid/5329/default.aspx


max#8
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Post: # 793535Post max#8 »

bottom line max will play out the season
Last edited by max#8 on Tue 11 Aug 2009 12:39am, edited 1 time in total.


SainterK
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Post: # 793537Post SainterK »

xander wrote:This is not really related to max's form at the moment but did anyone hear how richo said max was his toughest opponent in a mike sheahan interview on fox sports. Good to see max is starting to get recognition for his years of good work.
I heard that also, and Fevola says the same thing.


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The Fireman
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Post: # 793554Post The Fireman »

One of the most ridiculous threads I have ever seen on this forum and yet it continues ...the IQ is dropping around here.
Max is a no brainer part of our side.
please..people.


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Post: # 793559Post Bernard Shakey »

maz#8 is a troll. Get rid of it.


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The Fireman
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Post: # 793581Post The Fireman »

Bernard Shakey wrote:maz#8 is a troll. Get rid of it.
get rid of the thread.


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Post: # 793586Post st.byron »

ohwhenthesaints! wrote:
xander wrote:This is not really related to max's form at the moment but did anyone hear how richo said max was his toughest opponent in a mike sheahan interview on fox sports. Good to see max is starting to get recognition for his years of good work.
I heard that also, and Fevola says the same thing.
And Buddy. And Lloyd.
They all rate him in the top 2 or 3 full backs of the past decade.


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Post: # 793591Post evertonfc »

I've weighed up all the evidence. You've all debated the pros and cons, etc.

------------------------------------------

I've come to the conclusion that not only is Max in our best 22 in 2009, but given the light year he's had, he's certainly in our best 22 for 2010.

His form, since coming back, has been of a typically high standard. Almost never beaten. It is only up to him to decide if he wants to play on.


Clueless and mediocre petty tyrant.

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